View Full Version : Ultra Heavy Backpacking
I have a friend who berates today's ultralite backpacking as unmanly. He's old school and seems to think the more weight you carry on your hike, you deserve to "pull rank" on ultralite backpackers, who are not worthy to even tread on the same ground as guys who carry packs weighing over 50-60 lbs. Personally I say hike your own hike, the amount of weight one carries will depend on many variables, and I'm way past thinking carrying more weight, when unnecessary, is some kind of badge of honor for a hiker. I asked him, "why do you want to carry more weight than you need to carry?" His answer was that's the way he did it back in the 1980s out west in Yosemite, and real men carry more weight, ultralite is for trail-fairies. Listening to his rationale is kind of like hearing all the stories like "back when I went to school we walked barefoot 2 miles in the snow every day". All of us who hiked decades ago remember carrying heavier loads, using heavier hiking boots, that's how most of us did things back then. My point here is to ask others who like to carry heavy packs, do you have any recommended websites or blogs for Ultra Heavy old school backpackers and hikers? I can pass this on to him, make him feel like he has others who feel like him.
Zippy Morocco
10-12-2013, 19:40
usmarines.com
These guys use to be into that sort of thing but I think they are starting to go lightweight too.
ChinMusic
10-12-2013, 19:42
I started out my thru carrying 247 pounds.....out of the shower. Those wimps starting out at 160 pounds were just that, wimps........[/blue]
MDSection12
10-12-2013, 19:43
We used to use leeches as a form of medicine too... :p
beachbunny
10-12-2013, 19:49
I guess when I was a scout,i was ultraheavy also. I remember carrying those cans of dinty more,that huge cotton sleeping bag,the eureka 2 man tent. oh yeah,2 miles in the snow but uphill both ways!
hikerboy57
10-12-2013, 19:54
end of april,met a guy a day before damascus going sobo carrying a 70 lb pack, had started from katahdin sobo september 1st with 120 lbs. he couldnt believe how small my pack was, and m light but not ul, i was carrying around 25 lbs when we met. he asked how much food i carried, i told him it varied depending on resupply but generally between 1.5 and 2lbs a day. he told me he carried around 5lbs per day, and i thought well, yeeah, you're carrying a 70 lb pack, you probably need to eat 5lb a day.i'm sure we both thought at the same time"he's doing it all wrong."
You need to contact Tipi Walter he would have all the info on heavy backpacking.
Wise Old Owl
10-12-2013, 19:55
They are are on the endangered species list - a rare breed and there are a few that still can be seen on the trail for short distances... as for websites?
http://straightchuter.com/2009/08/ultra-heavy-backpacking/
MuddyWaters
10-12-2013, 20:05
There is hiking, and camping, and a continuous spectrum in between
Nothing is "right" and nothing is "wrong"
One way is easier, however.
Most people out there today are pretty heavy still.
Long trail thru hikers end up at moderate weights usually. Very few hikers are actually UL in my experience. Your friend has plenty of company.
The only thing that matters is to get out there. Someone can spend 10 days to do 50 miles and have as much fun as the guy that spends 2 days, maybe more.
We used to use leeches as a form of medicine too... :p
They still do for a few things.
Tuckahoe
10-12-2013, 21:04
In the end does it really matter what and how much someone carries? He's happy, and you're happy so get on with the hike.
Thing is, among the friends that I hike with we have never discussed our gear or our pack weights with each other. We are there to enjoy the hike, the trail and our time in camp.
capehiker
10-12-2013, 21:12
In the end does it really matter what and how much someone carries? He's happy, and you're happy so get on with the hike.
I agree but...the OP's post states differently.
Biggie Master
10-12-2013, 21:36
Young William: I can fight.Malcolm Wallace: I know. I know you can fight. But it's our wits that make us men.
I prefer to be witty and carry less weight. I don't have to prove anything to anyone.
On this topic, I think that the heaviest I was (body weight wise) was about 245 lbs, add a 35-40 lb pack all-in, that is a LOT of weight on every step
My average is about 12 miles / day which I calculated at 25,000 - 30,000 steps per day
That is moving a lot of mass!
I have a friend who berates today's ultralite backpacking as unmanly. He's old school and seems to think the more weight you carry on your hike, you deserve to "pull rank" on ultralite backpackers, who are not worthy to even tread on the same ground as guys who carry packs weighing over 50-60 lbs. Personally I say hike your own hike, the amount of weight one carries will depend on many variables, and I'm way past thinking carrying more weight, when unnecessary, is some kind of badge of honor for a hiker. I asked him, "why do you want to carry more weight than you need to carry?" His answer was that's the way he did it back in the 1980s out west in Yosemite, and real men carry more weight, ultralite is for trail-fairies. Listening to his rationale is kind of like hearing all the stories like "back when I went to school we walked barefoot 2 miles in the snow every day". All of us who hiked decades ago remember carrying heavier loads, using heavier hiking boots, that's how most of us did things back then. My point here is to ask others who like to carry heavy packs, do you have any recommended websites or blogs for Ultra Heavy old school backpackers and hikers? I can pass this on to him, make him feel like he has others who feel like him.
Has he tried seeking professional counseling?
starbright
10-13-2013, 00:41
At the start of my AT hike this year I weighted in at 45lbs by the time I left the ATKO I was at 34lbs. It was still more weight than I wanted to carry after about 4 days. When I start my thru next year I will be much lighter if possible.
LandSailor
10-13-2013, 01:31
Pffftt...60lbs is nothing :D
24431
Feral Bill
10-13-2013, 01:47
Without the well designed suspensions on say, Dana packs, few people would dare carry 60+ lbs. I suspect that the development of such ultra-comfortable packs in the 70s and 80s caused an increase in carried weight. Before padded hip belts, people went fairly light, or suffered mightily.
Things progress. Back in the 70's going out for any amount of time required 50 plus pounds. Anyone one who has kept that up consistently now can not hike because of our natural aging process. Not to mention the products now out there are much lighter. Hike your own hike, go it for fun, learn the lessons of age. Do not go to far with too much and listen to the body particularly the knees. Also back in the 70's and 80's there were very few shelters so weather protection required extra weight. Today I see the big weight questions as how much food and where is the water. Plus when the knees say stop I stop so that some young hikers doesn't get their hike disrupted babysitting or carrying out an older person. Another factor we all need to keep in check is to remember our own body weight counts. Ego changes with age. Do what's fun or why bother. As a kid the whole definition of challenge was different. Heck today lots of people would get lost without a gps. Want a new challenge go old school map and compass. The old trail also used to have more dirt road type hiking also.
Tuckahoe
10-13-2013, 07:56
This is about all I could come up with
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwBGbRDgkiw&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Kerosene
10-13-2013, 08:45
Things progress. Back in the 70's going out for any amount of time required 50 plus pounds. Anyone one who has kept that up consistently now can not hike because of our natural aging process. Not to mention the products now out there are much lighter. Hike your own hike, go it for fun, learn the lessons of age. Do not go to far with too much and listen to the body particularly the knees. Also back in the 70's and 80's there were very few shelters so weather protection required extra weight. Today I see the big weight questions as how much food and where is the water. Plus when the knees say stop I stop so that some young hikers doesn't get their hike disrupted babysitting or carrying out an older person. Another factor we all need to keep in check is to remember our own body weight counts. Ego changes with age. Do what's fun or why bother. As a kid the whole definition of challenge was different. Heck today lots of people would get lost without a gps. Want a new challenge go old school map and compass. The old trail also used to have more dirt road type hiking also.Closely parallels what I was going to write, so I'll just do a +1.
I've carried 65 pounds for multiple days (when I was much, much younger) and I've carried 20-25 for days on end. Unless this guy is a physical anamoly, I'm going to be able to out-hike him with my UL kit in almost situation, and my body will be much less beat up when we're done. Again, it doesn't matter as long as I'm not relying on him for anything I might need. HYOH and enjoy getting outdoors!
Starchild
10-13-2013, 08:51
My thoughts about it FWIW, is there is no requirement to carry a backpack at all. After all no one thru-backpacks the AT, they thru hike it. So if you want to carry a backpack, you can, but it's your choice, but don't get all 'winey' because of it, nor get on some high horse because you are carrying some piece of optional equipment.
If you want to carry that go ahead, but it has nothing to do with the hike, just your own personal issues.
Unmanly is berating others for your own issues, calling them names, such as fairy packs, very immature. Trying to make people feel bad for doing the right thing, and getting a charge out of it. Normally people who accuse others are really trying to hide their own issues and let others bear theirs.
SouthMark
10-13-2013, 09:57
In 35 years of hiking I have yet to here anyone say "I wish my pack was heavier".
Don Newcomb
10-13-2013, 10:00
You ain't really camping unless you need pack animals. ;)
da fungo
10-13-2013, 10:19
... Before padded hip belts, people went fairly light, or suffered mightily.
I agree with your general sentiment, but I'm not sure that this part is accurate. Earl Schaffer's pack, if I recall correctly, included an iron skillet, an axe (not a hatchet), and WWII canvas gear. Don't know what his pack weight was, but it would be a stretch to call it fairly light. Of course, he might have suffered mightily.
Pedaling Fool
10-13-2013, 10:23
My thoughts about it FWIW, is there is no requirement to carry a backpack at all. After all no one thru-backpacks the AT, they thru hike it. So if you want to carry a backpack, you can, but it's your choice, but don't get all 'winey' because of it, nor get on some high horse because you are carrying some piece of optional equipment.I'm not sure what you're saying? There kind of is a requirement to carry a backpack, unless of course you're totally supported, but then you're talking about a lot of money, so much money that the number of thru-hikers as well as long-distance hikers would be vastly less -- not many have the resources to support such a hike.
Pedaling Fool
10-13-2013, 10:42
I have a friend who berates today's ultralite backpacking as unmanly. He's old school and seems to think the more weight you carry on your hike, you deserve to "pull rank" on ultralite backpackers, who are not worthy to even tread on the same ground as guys who carry packs weighing over 50-60 lbs. Personally I say hike your own hike, the amount of weight one carries will depend on many variables, and I'm way past thinking carrying more weight, when unnecessary, is some kind of badge of honor for a hiker. I asked him, "why do you want to carry more weight than you need to carry?" His answer was that's the way he did it back in the 1980s out west in Yosemite, and real men carry more weight, ultralite is for trail-fairies. Listening to his rationale is kind of like hearing all the stories like "back when I went to school we walked barefoot 2 miles in the snow every day". All of us who hiked decades ago remember carrying heavier loads, using heavier hiking boots, that's how most of us did things back then. My point here is to ask others who like to carry heavy packs, do you have any recommended websites or blogs for Ultra Heavy old school backpackers and hikers? I can pass this on to him, make him feel like he has others who feel like him.I'm one of them guys that started out from Amicalola with 70lbs, but it has nothing to do with being a manly hiker, nor some tribute to tradition. It has everything to do with my approach to hiking, it was a "reset" in my approach to physical fitness, which was faltering in the years before my hike, like I was burning out.
I really don't care about anyone's pack weight. Although I did learn to HATE many hikers, especially the ultralighters. The weight issue seemed to trump any other conversation, people really do focus on this issue in an unhealthy manner and of course I was the focus on many of these conversations. I remember having to hear so many guys half my age carrying well under half my weight complaing that they were carrying too much weight:confused: You really do learn to forget about the weight, unless of course you have this unhealthy fixation, like so many out there. Your friend seems to also have this unhealthy fixation, my advice would be to give it up, granted it's kind of tough to do when that is the primary converstation out there.:rolleyes:
Wise Old Owl
10-13-2013, 10:45
Young William: I can fight.Malcolm Wallace: I know. I know you can fight. But it's our wits that make us men.
I prefer to be witty and carry less weight. I don't have to prove anything to anyone.
He had a horse, Salt tanned Leathers, and Iron Coat and sword or about a hundred pounds of stuff, and a page to carry his other stuff. Whhoooo.
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Tipi Walter
10-13-2013, 12:00
The only thing that matters is to get out there. Someone can spend 10 days to do 50 miles and have as much fun as the guy that spends 2 days, maybe more.
This should be the main facet of backpacking---How long a person is out with or without resupply. My preference is long trips with no resupply and with one food load to last me 15-20 days.
Without the well designed suspensions on say, Dana packs, few people would dare carry 60+ lbs. I suspect that the development of such ultra-comfortable packs in the 70s and 80s caused an increase in carried weight. Before padded hip belts, people went fairly light, or suffered mightily.
No conversation of heavy backpacking can happen without mentioning Norman Clyde of the 1930s. He routinely carried a 90 lb pack and stayed out for weeks. See below---
http://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/ED-AK144_Norman_DV_20090909124713.jpg
Things progress. Back in the 70's going out for any amount of time required 50 plus pounds. Anyone one who has kept that up consistently now can not hike because of our natural aging process. Not to mention the products now out there are much lighter. Hike your own hike, go it for fun, learn the lessons of age. Do not go to far with too much and listen to the body particularly the knees. Also back in the 70's and 80's there were very few shelters so weather protection required extra weight. Today I see the big weight questions as how much food and where is the water. Plus when the knees say stop I stop so that some young hikers doesn't get their hike disrupted babysitting or carrying out an older person. Another factor we all need to keep in check is to remember our own body weight counts. Ego changes with age. Do what's fun or why bother. As a kid the whole definition of challenge was different. Heck today lots of people would get lost without a gps. Want a new challenge go old school map and compass. The old trail also used to have more dirt road type hiking also.
Guys went light back in the 1960's too, just check out Owen Allen's pack contents of 1960 or Andrew Giger's stuff in 1969---in the Hiking the Appalachian Trail Two Volume book set.
And your quote "Anyone who has kept that up consistently now can not hike because of our natural aging process", is just stump wrong and you can use me as an example. If anything, my pack weights have gone up since hitting my 60's. Ergo for an 18 day trip I carry around 80-85 lbs. Of course total trip mileage will be low but I've done 10 or 12 mile days with this load when I feel like it. Food weight. Fuel weight. Winter down weight. Book weight.
For more crap on this subject, see---
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?89891-Heavy-Thinking-with-Tipi-Walter
Lightweight isn't progress, it is back to the basics. George Washington Sears, aka Nessmuk wrote in the early part of the last century, "Go light; the lighter the better, so that you have the simplest material for health, comfort and enjoyment." He reportedly carried under 30# including his canoe.
In 35 years of hiking I have yet to here anyone say "I wish my pack was heavier".
To be completely fair, I would bet that you have heard the alternate formulation of that statement, which is "I wish I had a ..."
Just Bill
10-13-2013, 18:29
Florida Mike- As heavyweight backpacking was mostly invented before the internet, his best bet is to read the old school books. Original Complete Walker, Some of the older Chris Townsend books. Vintage Backpacker magazine (and occasionally current backpacker magazine). All good starts.
1890-1950 was a period of ultralight travel so tell him not to go back too far. Unfortunately even Horace Kephart's one hundred year old book "Camping and Woodcraft" advocated going ultralight. His hero and mentor was George W. Sears (Nessmuk), who carried a 25 pound load- which included a canoe. So my best advice is for him to find that sweet spot- between the 60's and 90's when "modern" gear was invented and heavy loads became standard.
If he needs companionship you can always direct him to the preppers and zombie appocolypse types, they all seem to plan on fleeing from the end of the world with 50-90 pound loads and greatly enjoy talking about efficiencies like getting down to a 10 pound first aid kits and the like. Personally if the zombies do come I will enjoy fleeing with an ultralight load and occasionally spearing them with an Easton ultralight aluminum tent pole shaft- but hey- Flee Your Own Zombie.
Starchild
10-13-2013, 18:39
I'm not sure what you're saying? There kind of is a requirement to carry a backpack, unless of course you're totally supported, but then you're talking about a lot of money, so much money that the number of thru-hikers as well as long-distance hikers would be vastly less -- not many have the resources to support such a hike.
Just saying that the backpack you carry, or if you carry one at all, does not negate any thru hiker status.
ams212001
10-13-2013, 21:08
This is about all I could come up with
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwBGbRDgkiw&feature=youtube_gdata_player
A true man never drops his cigarette.
88BlueGT
10-17-2013, 11:12
My father is this type.... the old school backpacker. He THOUGHT that he packed light (35-40lbs) but he laughs at me for the little things I do to save a few grams. I always get the back in my day speech every time he looks at my gear.
I carried a 50 pound pack for most of my section hiking of the AT. However, now that I am up in MH and ME the terrain is a lot tougher and the fact that I am older, I am doing everything that I can to get that weight down. I've seen the light as far as having a lighter pack is concerned.
max patch
10-17-2013, 12:40
When I was in the SNP I met a young man in his early 20s who was carrying a 100 pound pack. When I met him he had been out for a few days and estimated his weight at that time at 90 pounds. I was carrying 45 pounds at a time; I tried on his pack and I believe what he said was true. He was hiking the Tuscarora Trail and carrying the weight to get into as good a shape as possible. He had had some issues with his Dad, was going to enter the military soon, and wanted his be the best that he could be and have his Dad be proud of him. Nice guy. He was the only black backpacker I met on my thru.
"To equip a pedestrian with shelter, bedding, utensils, food, and other necessities, in a packso light and small that he can carry it without overstrain, is really a fine art" Horace Kephart 1917 Camp & Woodcraft
I have a friend who berates today's ultralite backpacking as unmanly. He's old school and seems to think the more weight you carry on your hike, you deserve to "pull rank" on ultralite backpackers, who are not worthy to even tread on the same ground as guys who carry packs weighing over 50-60 lbs. Personally I say hike your own hike, the amount of weight one carries will depend on many variables, and I'm way past thinking carrying more weight, when unnecessary, is some kind of badge of honor for a hiker. I asked him, "why do you want to carry more weight than you need to carry?" His answer was that's the way he did it back in the 1980s out west in Yosemite, and real men carry more weight, ultralite is for trail-fairies. Listening to his rationale is kind of like hearing all the stories like "back when I went to school we walked barefoot 2 miles in the snow every day". All of us who hiked decades ago remember carrying heavier loads, using heavier hiking boots, that's how most of us did things back then. My point here is to ask others who like to carry heavy packs, do you have any recommended websites or blogs for Ultra Heavy old school backpackers and hikers? I can pass this on to him, make him feel like he has others who feel like him.
MuddyWaters
10-17-2013, 20:32
People did not hike with heavy monster packs until there was a full blown industry to sell them things they didnt really need, and production based in China so they could afford it.
greentick
10-18-2013, 23:46
People did not hike with heavy monster packs until there was a full blown industry to sell them things they didnt really need, and production based in China so they could afford it.
A new, bigger pack so you can stuff MORE lightweight gear in it!;)
I had climbed but a short distance when I was overtaken by a young man on horse-back, who soon showed that he intended to rob me if he should find the job worth while. After he had inquired where I came from, and where I was going, he offered to carry my bag. I told him that it was so light that I did not feel it at all a burden; but he insisted and coaxed until I allowed him to carry it. As soon as he had gained possession I noticed that he gradually increased his speed, evidently trying to get far enough ahead of me to examine the contents without being observed. But I was too good a walker and runner for him to get far. At a turn of the road, after trotting his horse for about half an hour, and when he thought he was out of sight, I caught him rummaging my poor bag. Finding there only a comb, brush, towel, soap, a change of underclothing, a copy of Burns's poems, Milton's Paradise Lost, and a small New Testament, he waited for me, handed back my bag, and returned down the hill, saying that he had forgotten something.
John Muir, 1867
Like Muddy Waters said, the REAL old school is lightweight!
squeezebox
10-20-2013, 08:03
I have a friend who backpacks in the west. He hikes in with a very heavy pack, never asked him how much. he sets up a very comfortable basecamp then goes for day hikes. Might change his basecamp. Sounds like a good combination. Possible in the east in some of the larger parks , but not on the AT.
Another Kevin
10-22-2013, 18:44
I have a friend who backpacks in the west. He hikes in with a very heavy pack, never asked him how much. he sets up a very comfortable basecamp then goes for day hikes. Might change his basecamp. Sounds like a good combination. Possible in the east in some of the larger parks , but not on the AT.
That's a pretty common style - perhaps even the usual style - in the Adirondack High Peaks. Hike a few miles in at low elevation with a heavy pack, set up a base camp at one of the shelters or campsites, then go peak bagging with just a light day pack. (Inappropriately stored food at those base camps is why you have to have a bear canister there now.)