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Gambit McCrae
10-16-2013, 12:27
So I went to MD and as I crossed foxville rd/md 77 I needed water, so I walked up to the closest house and knocked on the door, no answer, very thirsty, saw a hose, turned it on and started to fill up my bottle...soap, coming out of a hose? Anyways, I dumped out my bottle and didnt really feel right getting water I hadnt gotten permission for anyways so i turn it off and walk around front of house. The next door neighbor is standing at his door 50 yards away. I put a smile on my face and walk over, " hey sir, really thirsty here mind if i fill up my bottles?" He said sure and i proceeded to do so. He thanked me for knocking and asking before I got water, and he concurred that he owned the house next door as a rental. He then went into his speech about how he is sour that the gov. took his land to reroute the AT and that if he sees people get water fromt he rental house he walks over and tells them to dump the water out and move along. I thanked him and moved along.

Anyone hear of this guy? on nb side of the street and on the left when heading nobo
and i guess lesson learned is dont get water you havent asked for

The Old Boot
10-16-2013, 12:35
Personally, I wouldn't even have gotten that far. Going on someone's private property is trespassing. Doesn't matter if you need water and were about to fall over in a faint from lack of water, it's still private property.

It never ceases to amaze me here, the amount on entitlement that I see!!

Gambit McCrae
10-16-2013, 13:21
Personally, I wouldn't even have gotten that far. Going on someone's private property is trespassing. Doesn't matter if you need water and were about to fall over in a faint from lack of water, it's still private property.

It never ceases to amaze me here, the amount on entitlement that I see!!
rofling, because I walked past a house with a spicket? Might be private property but there was no tresspassing signs and I was respectful, do you yell at girlscouts trying to sell cookies if they knocked on your door cause their troop meets down the street? I didnt think so and beside your answer is off course from the direction of this thread.

And what do you mean entitlement? I knocked, and asked politely. If I felt entitled I would have walked up and got it without asking.

Starchild
10-16-2013, 13:54
Personally, I wouldn't even have gotten that far. Going on someone's private property is trespassing. Doesn't matter if you need water and were about to fall over in a faint from lack of water, it's still private property.

It never ceases to amaze me here, the amount on entitlement that I see!!

Some places you are legally allowed to do this if it is needed for survival, even break in a house but you would be responsible for any damage, but no criminal charges.

Gambit McCrae
10-16-2013, 14:31
Starchild, Thanks for your response but I am looking for feedback on any experiences with this person, mentality toward hikers, or the fact that he filled the hose with soap lol

I am not asking if what I did was right or wrong, I know I did nothing wrong

QHShowoman
10-16-2013, 14:42
Are you sure he filled the hose with soap intentionally? I rarely use my garden hose and whenever I do, I get about 30 seconds of foamy crap until the water clears which I just assumed was due to bacteria build up in the hose because it sat in the sun and heat all summer.

It sounds like the guy was perfectly reasonable, regardless of his feelings about the AT: You asked for water, he obliged.
It's all the hikers that just took without asking that are giving the courteous ones a bad rap.

Was there no water at Cowall shelter, if you were headed NOBO? (I ask mainly because I am hiking through there tomorrow.)

88BlueGT
10-16-2013, 14:45
I am not asking if what I did was right or wrong, I know I did nothing wrong

I have a feeling ^^^ is exactly what the rest of this thread will be about.

imscotty
10-16-2013, 14:59
I have to say Gambit, I would never help myself to a spigot on the side of a house without permission short of a true life or death emergency. If this is what this homeowner typically has to put up with no wonder he has a 'bad taste' for the AT

winger
10-16-2013, 15:06
I see you're from tennessee also, but am curious as to whether you have the habit of wandering onto private property very often? Cause In these here hills of tennessee that can get you into trouble real quick. And your perspective of "no trespassing signs" is totally incorrect. So lesson learned?

Another Kevin
10-16-2013, 15:11
I have to say Gambit, I would never help myself to a spigot on the side of a house without permission short of a true life or death emergency. If this is what this homeowner typically has to put up with no wonder he has a 'bad taste' for the AT

I wouldn't either. But I also wouldn't hesitate to use a front gate and knock on a front door, unless there's an obvious NO SOLICITORS sign or some such. Normally, knocking on a front door is considered to be within the bounds of civilized behaviour.

Lone Wolf
10-16-2013, 15:16
Some places you are legally allowed to do this if it is needed for survival, even break in a house but you would be responsible for any damage, but no criminal charges.

but not on the AT while on vacation

BobTheBuilder
10-16-2013, 15:18
And what do you mean entitlement? I knocked, and asked politely. If I felt entitled I would have walked up and got it without asking.

Original post - "I walked up to the closest house and knocked on the door, no answer, very thirsty, saw a hose, turned it on and started to fill up my bottle"

Hmmmmmmm.....I guess I can see where the confusion came from.

Old Hiker
10-16-2013, 16:10
OP, care to post your address so I can come to your house and help myself without permission to whatever you've paid for? While you weren't there?

Would you be happy with that?

No permission, no water. Period.

hikerboy57
10-16-2013, 16:13
Personally, I wouldn't even have gotten that far. Going on someone's private property is trespassing. Doesn't matter if you need water and were about to fall over in a faint from lack of water, it's still private property.

It never ceases to amaze me here, the amount on entitlement that I see!!

Some places you are legally allowed to do this if it is needed for survival, even break in a house but you would be responsible for any damage, but no criminal charges. and in turn if the homeowner is home and arms you can be shot legally

Starchild
10-16-2013, 16:15
and in turn if the homeowner is home and arms you can be shot legally

Actually not legally, but it would be pretty hard to prove.

Starchild
10-16-2013, 16:16
but not on the AT while on vacation

I don't see how being on vacation (as opposed to a AT thru hike???), has any bearing on being in a survival situation.

hikerboy57
10-16-2013, 16:16
A homeowner has a right to protect his property

Lone Wolf
10-16-2013, 16:18
I don't see how being on vacation (as opposed to a AT thru hike???), has any bearing on being in a survival situation.

an AT thru-hike is a vacation

Starchild
10-16-2013, 16:19
A homeowner has a right to protect his property

I believe a survival situation in some jurisdictions trumps this.

hikerboy57
10-16-2013, 16:20
I don't see how being on vacation (as opposed to a AT thru hike???), has any bearing on being in a survival situation.
a thru hike isnt any different than a vacation.extremely doubtful someone would be literally dying of thirst to justify breaking into someones home/trespass for water.

Starchild
10-16-2013, 16:20
an AT thru-hike is a vacation

This is your opinion, you can do with it as you wish but it does not make it so. Also being on vacation does not mean that one does not get oneself into a survival situation.

Starchild
10-16-2013, 16:21
a thru hike isnt any different than a vacation.extremely doubtful someone would be literally dying of thirst to justify breaking into someones home/trespass for water.

Not yours to decide (thankfully)

Lone Wolf
10-16-2013, 16:21
I believe a survival situation in some jurisdictions trumps this.

ain't nobody gonna be in no survival situation on the mid-atlantic section of the AT. puhleeeeze!

hikerboy57
10-16-2013, 16:22
I believe a survival situation in some jurisdictions trumps this.
not if the homeowner shoots first. i know i wouldnt be yelling out to some stranger breaking into my house to ask if he was in a survival situation. borders on the absurd.
and we''re talking about the at.not night of the zombies.

hikerboy57
10-16-2013, 16:23
This is your opinion, you can do with it as you wish but it does not make it so. Also being on vacation does not mean that one does not get oneself into a survival situation.
darwin understood this very well

winger
10-16-2013, 16:33
Actually not legally, but it would be pretty hard to prove.

Yes legally, if I find someone, uninvited, and whether they are armed or not, in my house and shoot them, it is legal. The "proof" is that they are an unknown individual, who was not "invited" in and were within the boundaries of my home, and that I thought that
the intruder would hold a substantial risk for imminent serious danger to myself or others within the residence. Reply to law enforcement would be that the person in question, is "over there officer, I shot him because he presented an imminent danger and I feared
for serious harm or death."

Starchild
10-16-2013, 16:36
I am sick and tired to hear that thru hikers should not expect special privileges, because they should as evidence that it is legally encoded, and that they experience such treatment. They are entitled, deal with it.

Hell the land was taken from this guy for the thru hikers by the US government. That is a real special privilege.

They are entitled, they are entitled deeply, trail angles know that, former thru hikers know that, including myself.

hikerboy57
10-16-2013, 16:44
I am sick and tired to hear that thru hikers should not expect special privileges, because they should as evidence that it is legally encoded, and that they expect such treatment. They are entitled, deal with it.

Hell the land was taken from this guy for the thru hikers by the US government. That is a real special privilege.
what about section hikers and dayhikers, weekenders, the primary reason the at exists?
thru hikers deserve no special treatment. 4out of 5 dont finish anyway.those are called section hikers. besides the fact you're talking about trespassing , breaking and entering.

Rasty
10-16-2013, 16:47
A homeowner has a right to protect his property

Depends on the state.

QHShowoman
10-16-2013, 16:50
I am sick and tired to hear that thru hikers should not expect special privileges, because they should as evidence that it is legally encoded, and that they expect such treatment. They are entitled, deal with it.

Hell the land was taken from this guy for the thru hikers by the US government. That is a real special privilege.


Well, except the AT wasn't created *just* for thru-hikers...so the government's land grab was to benefit all who use the AT -- day, section and thru-hikers alike. The AT was originally envisioned by Benton Mackaye to be a series of work and farming camps. At the time, the thought that someone would ever walk it end to end was never even entertained.

kofritz
10-16-2013, 16:53
maybe law enforcement people could opin, but i am not aware of any "right to survive" law that may mirror self-defense or the aggrandized "stand your ground" laws. maybe in a wilderness, isolated area maybe....but if you are on a street, i doubt that could work as "wilderness". i mean, where was the closest store...

Lone Wolf
10-16-2013, 16:56
I am sick and tired to hear that thru hikers should not expect special privileges, because they should as evidence that it is legally encoded, and that they experience such treatment. They are entitled, deal with it.

Hell the land was taken from this guy for the thru hikers by the US government. That is a real special privilege.

They are entitled, they are entitled deeply, trail angles know that, former thru hikers know that, including myself.wow. you actually believe this crap you wrote? you got issues

hikerboy57
10-16-2013, 16:58
Depends on the state.
i live in ny

max patch
10-16-2013, 16:59
I am sick and tired to hear that thru hikers should not expect special privileges, because they should as evidence that it is legally encoded, and that they experience such treatment. They are entitled, deal with it.

Hell the land was taken from this guy for the thru hikers by the US government. That is a real special privilege.

They are entitled, they are entitled deeply, trail angles know that, former thru hikers know that, including myself.

Please tell us you forgot to include one of those smiley thingees.

Starchild
10-16-2013, 17:02
wow. you actually believe this crap you wrote? you got issues

I do know that if a person actually killed a thru hiker that was only there because of a desperate need for water that person who killed the thru hiker would be in a worse position then the thru hiker.

MDSection12
10-16-2013, 17:05
1. I am sick and tired to hear that thru hikers should not expect special privileges, because they should as evidence that it is legally encoded, and that they experience such treatment. They are entitled, deal with it.

2. Hell the land was taken from this guy for the thru hikers by the US government. That is a real special privilege.

3. They are entitled, they are entitled deeply, trail angles know that, former thru hikers know that, including myself.
1. Care to share some of these 'legally encoded' priveleges?

2. Nope. Not at all. Thru hikers were an afterthought at best. The land is for everyone's use.

3. What does 'deeply entitled' even mean? They may feel entitled, and that's often due to trail angels (the trail tends to bend organically, not many 'angles'), but that doesn't mean they deserve anything special. Former thru hikers may feel a connection to current thrus and help them because of it but that doesn't mean they are 'entitled' to it.

MDSection12
10-16-2013, 17:08
I do know that if a person actually killed a thru hiker that was only there because of a desperate need for water that person who killed the thru hiker would be in a worse position then the thru hiker.
Not if the thru broke into their house... You break in my house I yell for you to leave. If you don't leave, what happens next is on you. That's how it is in my state, and many others. The law says nothing about breaking in for survival.

Blue Mountain Edward
10-16-2013, 17:09
There is plenty of water in Maryland. What is your major malfunction? Hikers helping themselves to water on private property is why the trail was rerouted at Duncannon Pa. There was a hiker knocking on house doors in the vicinity of the 501 shelter this summer. The police were called, came into the shelter and took the dummy away for questioning LOL.

Starchild
10-16-2013, 17:31
1. Care to share some of these 'legally encoded' priveleges?



Federally able to camp and shelter in the Smokies without a reservation, only ones able to tent at all. Locally only ones allowed to camp in the city park in Wanesboro VA, many more examples. In short thru hikers do get and are entitled to special privileges.


And this is my point, that they thru hike, as opposed to section hike, is a benefit to humanity, and therefor will be always granted special privileges. But in this case, in a desperate need for water, I find the guy lucky that he didn't shoot the thru hiker as he, not the hiker, would be the one to pay. the basic need for a human in need of water is the situation here, not that the person was a thru hiker.

Another Kevin
10-16-2013, 17:32
There is plenty of water in Maryland. What is your major malfunction? Hikers helping themselves to water on private property is why the trail was rerouted at Duncannon Pa. There was a hiker knocking on house doors in the vicinity of the 501 shelter this summer. The police were called, came into the shelter and took the dummy away for questioning LOL.

I daresay that there is more to the story. Or is knocking on someone's door no longer considered a civil way to introduce oneself?

(Helping yourself at someone's water tap is a different story, and I'm not commenting on that.)

Coffee
10-16-2013, 17:33
And this is my point, that they thru hike, as opposed to section hike, is a benefit to humanity, and therefor will be always granted special privileges.
Benefit to humanity? :confused::rolleyes:

hikerboy57
10-16-2013, 17:36
Federally able to camp and shelter in the Smokies without a reservation, only ones able to tent at all. Locally only ones allowed to camp in the city park in Wanesboro VA, many more examples. In short thru hikers do get and are entitled to special privileges.


And this is my point, that they thru hike, as opposed to section hike, is a benefit to humanity, and therefor will be always granted special privileges. But in this case, in a desperate need for water, I find the guy luck that he didn't shoot the thru hiker as he, not the hiker, would be the one to pay.
let me repeat myself.thruhikers are just section hikers until they finish the trail.they are entitled to nothing. the smokies definition of a thru hiker is a hiker who starts 50 mi before and finishes 50 mi. after the smokies.in at terms, theyre called section hikers.

hikerboy57
10-16-2013, 17:37
Benefit to humanity? :confused::rolleyes:
indeed, so long as they stay on the at and dont come into town.
addition by subtraction.

Starchild
10-16-2013, 17:39
let me repeat myself.thruhikers are just section hikers until they finish the trail.they are entitled to nothing. the smokies definition of a thru hiker is a hiker who starts 50 mi before and finishes 50 mi. after the smokies.in at terms, theyre called section hikers.

While the smokies had to come up with a legal definition of thru hiking, I have never heard your definition before. Of my thru hiking class, when asked all of them said they were thru hiking the AT, none said they were section hikers.

Starchild
10-16-2013, 17:41
Benefit to humanity? :confused::rolleyes:

Yes, in a very big way. Thru hikers I believe are given such benefits and people desire to help them because they are really living life. And that is the goal of humanity. These people are an inspiration to the rest of humanity. And I have been told that many many times both during my thru and after.

Starchild
10-16-2013, 17:44
Starchild, Thanks for your response but I am looking for feedback on any experiences with this person, mentality toward hikers, or the fact that he filled the hose with soap lol

I am not asking if what I did was right or wrong, I know I did nothing wrong

Wow got totally caught up in this. I am sorry, I end this here but those interested feel free to start a new thread on what I posted.

hikerboy57
10-16-2013, 17:46
While the smokies had to come up with a legal definition of thru hiking, I have never heard your definition before. Of my thru hiking class, when asked all of them said they were thru hiking the AT, none said they were section hikers.
and yet 4 out of 5 dont finish. thats not a thru hike.its an attempt.
no benefit to humanity, outside of extricating themselves from society for a vacation in the woods.

disclaimer: i have never thru hiked, probably never will .ive hiked thousands more miles than the majority of thru hikers.
next year im hiking from ga to me, but starting on the bmt till davenport gap, so i'll technically still be a section hiker, although if i finish will have hiked 58 more miles than if i stayed on the at.

hikerboy57
10-16-2013, 17:47
Yes, in a very big way. Thru hikers I believe are given such benefits and people desire to help them because they are really living life. And that is the goal of humanity. These people are an inspiration to the rest of humanity. And I have been told that many many times both during my thru and after.
99% of humanity have never heard of a thru hiker.

SouthMark
10-16-2013, 17:48
While the smokies had to come up with a legal definition of thru hiking, I have never heard your definition before. Of my thru hiking class, when asked all of them said they were thru hiking the AT, none said they were section hikers.

Check out third stared item:

http://www.nantahalahikingclub.org/index.php/events-calendar/great-smoky-mountains-national-park-permit-fees/

max patch
10-16-2013, 17:59
Great! My obituary can now say I was a great humanitarian.

Tuckahoe
10-16-2013, 18:08
Some places you are legally allowed to do this if it is needed for survival, even break in a house but you would be responsible for any damage, but no criminal charges.


and in turn if the homeowner is home and arms you can be shot legally


Actually not legally, but it would be pretty hard to prove.


A homeowner has a right to protect his property


I believe a survival situation in some jurisdictions trumps this.


a thru hike isnt any different than a vacation.extremely doubtful someone would be literally dying of thirst to justify breaking into someones home/trespass for water.

Starchild, care to quote the state statutes that allows some one to commit breaking and entering or burglary in a survival situation? I dont think you will find any. I know you are from NY but in the free states, breaking and entering into an occupied dwelling will amount to creating a situation where the occupants can express a reasonable fear for their life and to use force including deadly force. No one will be prosecuted except for the one doing the breaking and entering, if they survive.

WingedMonkey
10-16-2013, 18:09
I have never in my thousands of miles (even on a thru-hike) ever knocked on someones door for my needs, and certainly never took water from a home spigot uninvited. I have met folks that have seen me passing and invited me over for water or even a cold drink. Depends on my schedule if I stop and shoot the sh#&, or just wave and say no thanks.

The only time I personally can imagine me knocking on a door of a residence is if I need 911 and my phone doesn't work. It's the reason I carry one.


That said...the place I stay in western Massachusetts is less than a mile down an abandoned road from the trail. It was closer years ago before a re-route and corridor purchase. More lost hikers use to show up, it's rare now.

If someone was to just help them selves to water without asking, I'd be irked. The house water supply is spring fed and some years the spring house is down to rationing condition.

A polite knock (assuming you got past the dogs) would certainly get you enough to drink even if we had to bring it in from outside sources that year. It would depend on my mood (and yours) rather or not you would be mocked by me for going to the woods unprepared.

:p

Montana
10-16-2013, 18:20
I am sick and tired to hear that thru hikers should not expect special privileges, because they should as evidence that it is legally encoded, and that they experience such treatment. They are entitled, deal with it.

Hell the land was taken from this guy for the thru hikers by the US government. That is a real special privilege.

They are entitled, they are entitled deeply, trail angles know that, former thru hikers know that, including myself.


Federally able to camp and shelter in the Smokies without a reservation, only ones able to tent at all. Locally only ones allowed to camp in the city park in Wanesboro VA, many more examples. In short thru hikers do get and are entitled to special privileges.


And this is my point, that they thru hike, as opposed to section hike, is a benefit to humanity, and therefor will be always granted special privileges. But in this case, in a desperate need for water, I find the guy lucky that he didn't shoot the thru hiker as he, not the hiker, would be the one to pay. the basic need for a human in need of water is the situation here, not that the person was a thru hiker.

Wow. I seriously doubt you have hiked more than a mile of the AT. Your attitude stinks worse than my pack did on October 8, 2008.

People like you are the reason that there are problems with locals in trail towns, and why trail related services are constantly shutting down.

Thru-hikers deserve no special treatment. We choose to go on vacation for 4-6 months, and no one should feel the need to bow down to us because we have walked more than most.

Tuckahoe
10-16-2013, 18:29
So I went to MD and as I crossed foxville rd/md 77 I needed water, so I walked up to the closest house and knocked on the door, no answer, very thirsty, saw a hose, turned it on and started to fill up my bottle...soap, coming out of a hose? Anyways, I dumped out my bottle and didnt really feel right getting water I hadnt gotten permission for anyways so i turn it off and walk around front of house. The next door neighbor is standing at his door 50 yards away. I put a smile on my face and walk over, " hey sir, really thirsty here mind if i fill up my bottles?" He said sure and i proceeded to do so. He thanked me for knocking and asking before I got water, and he concurred that he owned the house next door as a rental. He then went into his speech about how he is sour that the gov. took his land to reroute the AT and that if he sees people get water fromt he rental house he walks over and tells them to dump the water out and move along. I thanked him and moved along.

Anyone hear of this guy? on nb side of the street and on the left when heading nobo
and i guess lesson learned is dont get water you havent asked for

Can anyone blame the guy for having a bad taste for the AT (if infact, that is really the case)? So his property was taken from him, probably through eminent domain for the benefit of the AT. And now hikers barge onto his property without permission and help themselves to water. Even the OP helped himself to the water first without asking, and only asked when the water didnt suit him and someone was watching.

The lesson here is for the hiker to remember that no matter where they are, they are always a guest in someone else's home and should behave like they are a guest.

Coffee
10-16-2013, 18:36
Yes, in a very big way. Thru hikers I believe are given such benefits and people desire to help them because they are really living life. And that is the goal of humanity. These people are an inspiration to the rest of humanity. And I have been told that many many times both during my thru and after.

I'm inspired by many thru hikers and I hope to hike one or more of the long trails myself one day, but no one is entitled to anything from anyone - on the trail or off the trail. I never expect anything of value from anyone unless I provide something of value in return. If a trail angel wants to help me and I needed the help, I would gratefully accept but I would be entitled to none of it. In fact, I get uncomfortable receiving things from strangers without providing something in return. I really felt this the one and only time I hitched and my offer of gas money was refused. The need to reciprocate in some way is a very very strong psychological tendency for most of humanity.

rickb
10-16-2013, 19:02
Details matter but I see nothing inherently wrong with anything th OP did. This is still America home of the free-- not home of the paranoid. Perhpas if we had higher expectations of others, we would be more giving ourselves.

Filling your bottle from a hose laying in the front yard after you have knocked on the home's front door on a hot day is no worse than taking home the the ball that David Ortiz is sure to hit out of the park tonight.

Sorry you had to read all the crap, GM.

Rasty
10-16-2013, 19:06
Best thread all week. :rolleyes:

Fairway
10-16-2013, 19:30
Details matter but I see nothing inherently wrong with anything th OP did. This is still America home of the free-- not home of the paranoid. Perhpas if we had higher expectations of others, we would be more giving ourselves.

Filling your bottle from a hose laying in the front yard after you have knocked on the home's front door on a hot day is no worse than taking home the the ball that David Ortiz is sure to hit out of the park tonight.

Sorry you had to read all the crap, GM.

Here are a few details OP left out. There is a water source 1.3 miles S, 1.8 miles N, and there's even a town 2 miles west of the location OP described. Further what if this spigot had a some type of fertilizer attachment on it, lets say OP didn't see it or failed to comprehend what it was. OP in turn drinks the water, gets sick and sues the home owner. Private property isn't public and comparing a baseball game to trespassing and stealing doesn't make any sense. Next time your at a ball game read the fine print on the ticket. You are there at your own risk.

Cookerhiker
10-16-2013, 19:35
99% of humanity have never heard of a thru hiker.

Make that 99.999%

hikerboy57
10-16-2013, 19:39
Make that 99.999%
there may be another 9 in there somewhere :)

Lone Wolf
10-16-2013, 20:16
And this is my point, that they thru hike, as opposed to section hike, is a benefit to humanity, and therefor will be always granted special privileges.
oh christ :rolleyes:

aficion
10-16-2013, 20:18
oh christ :rolleyes:

...amen...

QHShowoman
10-16-2013, 20:18
Filling your bottle from a hose laying in the front yard after you have knocked on the home's front door on a hot day is no worse than taking home the the ball that David Ortiz is sure to hit out of the park tonight.



It actually wasn't all that hot last weekend. Cloudy and overcast, highs in the low 60s. And rainy. So we're not talking 105 degree sunny days.

Rasty
10-16-2013, 20:21
there may be another 9 in there somewhere :)

99.0909099999%

hikerboy57
10-16-2013, 20:22
oh christ :rolleyes:
even he didnt have entitlement issues. pretty humble, actually.

CB1821
10-16-2013, 20:31
Yes, in a very big way. Thru hikers I believe are given such benefits and people desire to help them because they are really living life. And that is the goal of humanity. These people are an inspiration to the rest of humanity. And I have been told that many many times both during my thru and after.

"They are really living life" and "that is the goal of humanity"?!

There are many in the hard and social sciences that would take issue with your declaration and state that what you express as fact is merely opinion. For humanity, like all life, the most basic "goal" and driving force behind life is simply the continuation of life - both for the individual and the species. It is not hiking the AT! :)

Having said that, I, like those that you talk about, am inspired by people that undertake difficult tasks and complete them, as in your thru hike. Congratulations on your seeking out the experience and finishing it.

But with all due respect it does not mean you are entitled to anything more than any other human being for doing it, in my "opinion".

rickb
10-16-2013, 20:35
even he didnt have entitlement issues. pretty humble, actually.

Yea, but his father got His mother pregnant without asking. If that isn't entitlement, I don't know what is.

FarmerChef
10-16-2013, 20:40
I feel compelled to chime in but not compelled to elaborate much on what already has been said. It's a great personal achievement to complete a thru hike. Perhaps, once could argue, moreso if you have some significant physical impediment like being blind, or deaf, or something (fill in the blank with what you please). But either way it's still a personal achievement. Not an achievement for humanity. Maybe leaving the solar system in a manned space craft will be an achievement for humanity. It was for the crew of the starship Enterprise, at least.

There is no caste system on the trail that recognizes any hiker above another with the minor exception of a couple national parks' camping/shelter policies. And even those only differentiate (as has already been posted) on the distance traveled contiguously not the goal of finishing the whole trail. Some people may be prejudiced in their thinking with regard to hikers of different stripes (and I'll humbly point the finger at myself on that one some times). But that does not in and of itself make a caste or entitlement system normative, let alone official.

hikerboy57
10-16-2013, 20:45
Yea, but his father got His mother pregnant without asking. If that isn't entitlement, I don't know what is.that guy can work miracles!! he did send a messenger to let her know, though.

Tuckahoe
10-16-2013, 20:50
This is a thru-hiker that earned any special privilages he received...
24511

Lone Wolf
10-16-2013, 20:54
This is a thru-hiker that earned any special privilages he received...
24511

he would disagree

modiyooch
10-16-2013, 20:55
ain't nobody gonna be in no survival situation on the mid-atlantic section of the AT. puhleeeeze! This was my thought, as soon as I read MD

Cookerhiker
10-16-2013, 20:58
I suspect that Star Child is taking us for a ride.

Lone Wolf
10-16-2013, 20:59
I suspect that Star Child is taking us for a ride.

concur....

hikerboy57
10-16-2013, 21:00
mayne, but we love this stuff.

Tuckahoe
10-16-2013, 21:03
he would disagree

And from what I have read about him, you are absolutely right. That's something to keep in mind when reading what Starchild has written.

modiyooch
10-16-2013, 21:04
even he didnt have entitlement issues. pretty humble, actually.good one, hikerboy

88BlueGT
10-16-2013, 21:06
This thread is everything I expected it to be from post 1 :D

Biggie Master
10-16-2013, 21:07
To the OP -- no, I've never heard of him.

modiyooch
10-16-2013, 21:08
It's amazing to me how unprepared hikers can be. On a couple of occasions, we are in the middle of a 20 mile day, and some day hiker asks us for water. I think the OP should have planned better and not even considered private residences as options to fill.

aficion
10-16-2013, 21:09
I suspect that Star Child is taking us for a ride.

Either that or Star Child is on a ride that money can't buy.

lava
10-16-2013, 21:10
There is plenty of water in Maryland. What is your major malfunction? Hikers helping themselves to water on private property is why the trail was rerouted at Duncannon Pa. There was a hiker knocking on house doors in the vicinity of the 501 shelter this summer. The police were called, came into the shelter and took the dummy away for questioning LOL.

I'm not sure where you are getting you information, but you are mistaken. My husband and I are the caretakers of the 501 shelter. There was no individual taken into police custody at the 501 shelter this summer. The police did stop by asking if we had seen an individual who had been reported as knocking on doors in the area, but they did not find him at the shelter and we had not seen anyone matching his description. I later spoke with the local police chief while he was up patrolling the area and he indicated that the individual they were seeking was found in Pine Grove that evening. There is no reason to believe that he was a hiker or that he was ever at the 501 shelter.

88BlueGT
10-16-2013, 21:23
It's amazing to me how unprepared hikers can be. On a couple of occasions, we are in the middle of a 20 mile day, and some day hiker asks us for water. I think the OP should have planned better and not even considered private residences as options to fill.

Unfortunately, this does happen sometimes and can happen to the best of us. I was in a real dry spot in PA a few years back and got caught in a sticky situation w/ no water (water source dried up). I did not ask for water but when a day hiker came strolling by and asked my why the long face, he spotted me some from his bladder. ***** happens.

kayak karl
10-16-2013, 21:24
I'm thirsty now ;P

wornoutboots
10-16-2013, 21:40
wow. you actually believe this crap you wrote? you got issues
++1.......................

HooKooDooKu
10-17-2013, 00:41
The law says nothing about breaking in for survival.
Someone breaks into an occupied house (especially in rural south), it becomes a survival situation.

Just Bill
10-17-2013, 01:07
Best thread all week. :rolleyes:

WOW- Rasty- good call
Some of the most nonsensical yum-yum's I've heard in awhile.
Starchild drops acid and somehow operates a keyboard.- poorly done and clearly crossing the line into fail territory.
HB sneaks in a lengthy religious discussion without violating any TOS.- well done.
LW is the clearest and most concise voice of reason, hands down.- Excellent work SIR!

Trebor66
10-17-2013, 01:13
In Georgia is is unlawful to use deadly force to protect your property. The thought of shooting someone for getting water from a hose is absurd. Also, there are no laws allowing someone to force their way into a residence for a "survival situation." The problem may be in the prosecution of the case when the DA must prove the hikers intent to commit a crime. Lastly, a homeowner may use deadly force in a situation when someone forces their way into a residence and the occupant can prove that he/she had a articulable and reasonable fear for their safety. With that being said one must remember that the lock on my front door is there for your protection, not mine.

Autummyst
10-17-2013, 01:19
WB, you provided me great entertainment tonight with this thread!!!! :) I can't believe it's even real. I wonder if some people forget that water costs money for homeowners? It's not just 'free water for anyone'. And going onto someone's private property?? My goodness... no wonder some people are hesitant about thru hikers.

Getting out and hiking can certainly inspire people to go outside their comfort zones, but claiming privilege? I mean, we don't HAVE to go hiking and camping. We aren't conquering something that was put in our way. We are choosing to put obstacles in our way and go conquer them for fun and to see what we are made of in that manner. It's pretty much the epitome of the 1st world problem memes...wait let me find one. :P

24516

Old Hiker
10-17-2013, 06:59
I'm thirsty now ;P

I'm buying the first round. Rum and coke? I mean....... whiskey and water? :)

nitewalker
10-17-2013, 07:29
entitlement.......................

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d29VsG35DQM

Sampson
10-17-2013, 07:45
I do know that if a person actually killed a thru hiker that was only there because of a desperate need for water that person who killed the thru hiker would be in a worse position then the thru hiker.

Umm...the thru hiker would be dead in this scenario. Not a very good position if you ask me.

Gray Blazer
10-17-2013, 08:31
Which came first ... the chicken or the egg?


24517

lemon b
10-17-2013, 08:42
Maybe just maybe we're having a debate about the effects of saving weight by not hauling enough water and making other planning mistakes. But common sense and basic manners and respect can go along way.

Sly
10-17-2013, 13:05
The AT was originally envisioned by Benton Mackaye to be a series of work and farming camps. At the time, the thought that someone would ever walk it end to end was never even entertained.

Benton MacKaye didn't build the AT. Myron Avery walked end to end in the first two years of completion. And since it's continually connected trail, it was only a matter of time before one would hike end to end in a single season.

Justwalking
10-17-2013, 13:21
I often wonder just how the good ol' interweb has impacted the trail. The viral spread of information is great for the hikers,but you have to wonder if the "locals" have gotten more than they ever considered by just being nice. If I gave a hiker a coke, or a place to camp in the backyard, then they posted it on the interweb, and shortly after hikers just started showing up, I might would have to say "can't help you." I really have no opinion on the OP activity just thought I would throw another loop in this roller coaster thread.

Jack Tarlin
10-17-2013, 13:30
Another thing that I'm not sure has been mentioned.....keep in mind what most thru-hikers look like to the non-hiker. If someone that looks like Charles Manson's nephew is seen on the property of a rural resident, and is further seen knocking on the door, getting no answer, and then walking around back, well to anyone who sees this, they have no idea that the poor SOB is merely looking for a spigot. Whether down South or up North, this is a good way to ask for serious trouble. Unless it's a life and death emergency, going on to what is obviously private property and helping yourself to whatever you need......even if it's only water.......is a lousy idea. Oh, and while it's nice to speculate on which state residents are permitted to use deadly force when they feel threatened or endangered, this argument becomes rather moot once one manages to get shot.

88BlueGT
10-17-2013, 14:33
Another thing that I'm not sure has been mentioned.....keep in mind what most thru-hikers look like to the non-hiker. If someone that looks like Charles Manson's nephew is seen on the property of a rural resident, and is further seen knocking on the door, getting no answer, and then walking around back, well to anyone who sees this, they have no idea that the poor SOB is merely looking for a spigot. Whether down South or up North, this is a good way to ask for serious trouble. Unless it's a life and death emergency, going on to what is obviously private property and helping yourself to whatever you need......even if it's only water.......is a lousy idea. Oh, and while it's nice to speculate on which state residents are permitted to use deadly force when they feel threatened or endangered, this argument becomes rather moot once one manages to get shot.

Agreed. Laws don't mean much if someone has the means to use deadly force and feels threatened.

horicon
10-17-2013, 14:45
Don't go there.

ChuckT
10-17-2013, 15:49
While hiking I aim to be as self-sufficient as I can and not impose on strangers.

I only trespassed one time. I spotted a Hollyhock bush in a front yard and stopped to take a picture of it (hadn't seen one in forty forevers) felt guilty afterward.

cvt

gumball
10-17-2013, 17:24
I've got to believe Starchild was aiming to stir the pot and have some entertainment. No one could actually feel THAT entitled, for goddsake.

Rasty
10-17-2013, 17:36
I've got to believe Starchild was aiming to stir the pot and have some entertainment. No one could actually feel THAT entitled, for goddsake.

There are millions of people that feel that entitled.

SouthMark
10-17-2013, 17:43
No one could actually feel THAT entitled, for goddsake.

I'm not so sure about that. I stopped off at Spring Mtn Shelter north of Hot Springs just to make dinner before hiking on a ways and camping in 2010. A young couple hiked in and the girl had a fit that the shelter was full and some were section hikers. She went into a tirade about how shelters were reserved for thru hikers and all of us section hikers would have to get out, that we did not deserve to stay in shelters. Pissed me off so bad I stayed and I hate shelters.

Rasty
10-17-2013, 17:50
I'm not so sure about that. I stopped off at Spring Mtn Shelter north of Hot Springs just to make dinner before hiking on a ways and camping in 2010. A young couple hiked in and the girl had a fit that the shelter was full and some were section hikers. She went into a tirade about how shelters were reserved for thru hikers and all of us section hikers would have to get out, that we did not deserve to stay in shelters. Pissed me off so bad I stayed and I hate shelters.

+100 Did you tell her why?

SouthMark
10-17-2013, 17:53
+100 Did you tell her why?

Attempt failed. As per my signature "I'm not young enough to know everything".

gumball
10-17-2013, 20:04
I'm not so sure about that. I stopped off at Spring Mtn Shelter north of Hot Springs just to make dinner before hiking on a ways and camping in 2010. A young couple hiked in and the girl had a fit that the shelter was full and some were section hikers. She went into a tirade about how shelters were reserved for thru hikers and all of us section hikers would have to get out, that we did not deserve to stay in shelters. Pissed me off so bad I stayed and I hate shelters.

But these are the people I go into the woods to get away from!!! :).

gumball
10-17-2013, 20:06
Yikes. That was post #666. Please ignore this one, don't want my last post to be 666....

modiyooch
10-17-2013, 20:34
Unfortunately, this does happen sometimes and can happen to the best of us. I was in a real dry spot in PA a few years back and got caught in a sticky situation w/ no water (water source dried up). I did not ask for water but when a day hiker came strolling by and asked my why the long face, he spotted me some from his bladder. ***** happens.

I've been thirsty before. I once had to drink from the Shenandoah River. I've never asked another hiker for water and I have never approached a residence.

FarmerChef
10-17-2013, 22:06
I've been thirsty before. I once had to drink from the Shenandoah River. I've never asked another hiker for water and I have never approached a residence.

I love the Shenandoah. But drinking from it now that's desperation. ;)

HikerMom58
10-17-2013, 22:08
yikes. That was post #666. Please ignore this one, don't want my last post to be 666....

funny!!!!!!!!:d

Hill Ape
10-17-2013, 22:23
hexakosioihexekontahexaphobia add all natural number 1-36 gives you 666. base ten, 36 times ten is 360, the degrees in a circle. stay away from circles, they do not naturally occur... mind is blown

Trebor66
10-17-2013, 22:29
I'm dizzy....

Sailing_Faith
10-17-2013, 22:38
I'm dizzy....

Just listen to the music play.....

BabySue
10-17-2013, 22:42
The roman numerals in CVte pVrpLe DInosaVr add to 666. Thus Barney is the AntiChrist. Being "anti Christ," Barney and presumably dinosaurs or all colors are not humble, as per an earlier post. Dinosaurs died out because their arrogance prompted them to steal from antediluvian spigots. Plus, they didn't filter their water and died from giardia and cryptosporidium. Given his purple color, Barney would have been of the Roman senatorial order and likely would have shut down the government, including the national parks.

Autummyst
10-17-2013, 22:49
The roman numerals in CVte pVrpLe DInosaVr add to 666. Thus Barney is the AntiChrist. Being "anti Christ," Barney and presumably dinosaurs or all colors are not humble, as per an earlier post. Dinosaurs died out because their arrogance prompted them to steal from antediluvian spigots. Plus, they didn't filter their water and died from giardia and cryptosporidium. Given his purple color, Barney would have been of the Roman senatorial order and likely would have shut down the government, including the national parks.

I think this sums up the entire thread very well :P

Night Train
10-17-2013, 23:36
Yep, I'm giving it the WB Flame award.

Hill Ape
10-17-2013, 23:40
moral of the story, don't trespass and steal water from private property, or you'll end up like the dinosaurs. eating rotten cheese

Rasty
10-17-2013, 23:42
moral of the story, don't trespass and steal water from private property, or you'll end up like the dinosaurs. eating rotten cheese

Edam cheese with mites as tiny little sous chefs.

Hill Ape
10-18-2013, 00:10
what kind of whine goes best with that? maybe the neighbors have some, they're out of town, i'll just pop in the back door, they won't mind, we deserve it. I need to charge my phone too. all of this is barneys fault

HikerMom58
10-18-2013, 08:08
Yep, I'm giving it the WB Flame award.

Yep..... :>) I agree with ya!! Great to have you here Night Train! You joined this site on my daughter's b. day.. Welcome!! :0)

Another Kevin
10-18-2013, 08:27
Edam cheese with mites as tiny little sous chefs.

Edam - the only kind of cheese that's made backwards!

Another Kevin
10-18-2013, 08:48
moral of the story, don't trespass and steal water from private property, or you'll end up like the dinosaurs. eating rotten cheese
The dinosaurs were wiped out by an asteroid. Like the one whose crater is now Panther Mountain.1 Which got named because the settlers didn't know a panther from a cougar. Oh, well, they're both wildcats. And there were some wildcat drillers who tried to strike oil on Panther Mountain. All they brought up was gas. Which I bring up lots of if I eat bad cheese. And now I'm sorry I brought it up. Because all that gas must be what is fueling the flames in this thread. I guess someone had better put out the fire, being careful not to use stolen water to do it, because water won't extinguish a gas fire, and it's not lawful to have a fire on Panther Mountain anyway, fires are banned in NY above 3500 feet. And I never saw a pamther up there. Or a cougar for that matter. But if I did see a cougar, she wouldn't be hitting on me, she'd be after some college kid, and I'm an old dinosaur. Anyway, there's no need to steal water on Panther Mountain. I've never seen the spring on Giant Ledge run dry.

It's all connected.

1Phoenicia, NY - good hike, by the way! Nice views.

Hill Ape
10-18-2013, 09:01
sufficiently hijacked and derailed, I'm gonna eat and go to bed now, one day i'll stop working nights. seven pages on the topic of trespass and theft, bit much don't yall think?

Sly
10-18-2013, 09:09
Who in their right mind blames students or drivers when property is taken for schools and roads? A simple no trespassing sign goes a long way.

Odd Man Out
10-18-2013, 09:49
Except that the Dinosaurs were not all wiped out 65 million years ago. A small group survived. Today we call them birds.

Another Kevin
10-18-2013, 10:02
Except that the Dinosaurs were not all wiped out 65 million years ago. A small group survived. Today we call them birds.

That's ridiculous! The only birds I've ever seen eating rotten cheese were seagulls! Did they even have cheese in the Tertiary Period?

max patch
10-18-2013, 10:32
sufficiently hijacked and derailed, I'm gonna eat and go to bed now, one day i'll stop working nights. seven pages on the topic of trespass and theft, bit much don't yall think?

I was thinking that over 50 posts on how to pass someone was a bit much.

vamelungeon
10-18-2013, 11:12
It doesn't matter if you are thru-hiking the UNIVERSE, you are not entitled to go on anyone's property and help yourself to anything. The situation described wasn't a survival situation, it was a matter of thirst.

rickb
10-18-2013, 19:08
Hardly the crime of the century. But details matter. Knocking on someone door is not a bad thing in and of itself.

But don't touch my stuff. I don't like no one touching my stuff. So just keep your meathooks off. And if any of you...

Rasty
10-18-2013, 19:11
That's ridiculous! The only birds I've ever seen eating rotten cheese were seagulls! Did they even have cheese in the Tertiary Period?

Yes.......I have some in my fridge.

Old Hiker
10-18-2013, 20:28
It doesn't matter if you are thru-hiking the UNIVERSE, you are not entitled to go on anyone's property and help yourself to anything. The situation described wasn't a survival situation, it was a matter of thirst.

As long as you don't panic.

Hill Ape
10-18-2013, 21:09
if you had packed your towel, none of this would be a problem now would it

atmilkman
10-18-2013, 21:34
Either that or Star Child is on a ride that money can't buy.

Either that or one that money CAN buy. A good ride too it seems. I'll give you a $20 bill to be in that mind for 30 minutes. Sounds like a trip.

Trebor66
10-19-2013, 08:12
Hardly the crime of the century. But details matter. Knocking on someone door is not a bad thing in and of itself.

But don't touch my stuff. I don't like no one touching my stuff. So just keep your meathooks off. And if any of you...

Lighten up Francis....

Old Hiker
10-19-2013, 08:21
if you had packed your towel, none of this would be a problem now would it

Along with your electronic thumb.

Speaking of which: any idea what the weight of one is? Rechargeable or batteries? AAA or AA ?

I'm so confused.

Bronk
10-19-2013, 10:21
If I felt entitled I would have walked up and got it without asking. Isn't this exactly what you did when nobody answered the door at the first house you tried?

UnfamousK
10-24-2013, 17:49
as someone who spends a fair amount of time in the woods, and also happens to live in Port Clinton PA on the trail, asking first is always recommended and respected.....

max patch
10-24-2013, 18:20
At first I thot this was thread about ROADSIDE - I've heard good things about him!

Sly
10-24-2013, 19:08
It doesn't matter if you are thru-hiking the UNIVERSE, you are not entitled to go on anyone's property and help yourself to anything. The situation described wasn't a survival situation, it was a matter of thirst.

If you're going to put it that way, even in a survival situation he wasn't entitled to help himself to water. IMO, anyone that would refuse water to someone that's thirsty has the bigger problem.

Since the guy obviously knows his property abuts the trail, rather than playing games, he needs to post his property.

rocketsocks
10-24-2013, 19:13
Think before you drink.

Statue
10-24-2013, 19:31
OP, surprised you didn't ask the homeowner if you could step inside and make a sandwich. It is the Deli Walk after all.

Lone Wolf
10-24-2013, 20:00
Since the guy obviously knows his property abuts the trail, rather than playing games, he needs to post his property.wrong slick. it's a no-brainer. stay on the freakin' marked path.

modiyooch
10-24-2013, 20:20
IMO, anyone that would refuse water to someone that's thirsty has the bigger problem.
define thirsty. He was in MD, within 3 miles or less from springs.

rickb
10-24-2013, 20:38
I think there are guys in this thread who probably wouldn't have ever asked a pretty girl for a kiss.

Or a boss for a raise.

I chose not to live in fear of offending. Skulking around someone's bushes looking for a spigot is not cool, but that is hardly the situation described.

mikec
10-27-2013, 13:20
I thought the Deli Walk on the AT was in NJ/NY?

stranger
10-27-2013, 21:37
So I went to MD and as I crossed foxville rd/md 77 I needed water, so I walked up to the closest house and knocked on the door, no answer, very thirsty, saw a hose, turned it on and started to fill up my bottle...soap, coming out of a hose? Anyways, I dumped out my bottle and didnt really feel right getting water I hadnt gotten permission for anyways so i turn it off and walk around front of house. The next door neighbor is standing at his door 50 yards away. I put a smile on my face and walk over, " hey sir, really thirsty here mind if i fill up my bottles?" He said sure and i proceeded to do so. He thanked me for knocking and asking before I got water, and he concurred that he owned the house next door as a rental. He then went into his speech about how he is sour that the gov. took his land to reroute the AT and that if he sees people get water fromt he rental house he walks over and tells them to dump the water out and move along. I thanked him and moved along.

Anyone hear of this guy? on nb side of the street and on the left when heading nobo
and i guess lesson learned is dont get water you havent asked for

So you asked a guy for water and he said yes...the same guy doesn't like it when people trespass on his property and fill up their water bottles without asking permission...what a BASTARD!

FlyPaper
10-29-2013, 09:20
Details matter but I see nothing inherently wrong with anything th OP did. This is still America home of the free-- not home of the paranoid. Perhpas if we had higher expectations of others, we would be more giving ourselves.

Filling your bottle from a hose laying in the front yard after you have knocked on the home's front door on a hot day is no worse than taking home the the ball that David Ortiz is sure to hit out of the park tonight.

Sorry you had to read all the crap, GM.

Getting yourself in a jam and asking for water is not inherently wrong, but we should think about what we're doing from that person's perspective.

I have NEVER had anyone knock on my door and ask for water. If they did, I'd probably be glad for the opportunity to help. But, I live no where near a trail. This guy in MD lives right by the Appalachian Trail. How often should he cheerfully answer his door to give out water? Once a week? Three times a week? Three times per day? No telling how often it happens, but clearly this guy has people approach his house often to get water. He has the freedom to say "no", but that cannot be a serious counter argument. The actual cost of filling to Nalgene bottles is probably less than a penny. The cost of the water is not a factor. In order to say "no", they guy still has to deal with the interruption to whatever he's doing. You have to answer the door to say "no".

And this could happen while he's eating, watching football, taking a nap, or having romantic time with his wife. And why are people needing water there? When I hiked through that section, I carried enough water that I didn't have to knock on someone's door. It wasn't hard, but perhaps I was a tad slower going up those massive 500' climbs in the area. The people that stopped at his house, for the most part worked out all the logistics to be hiking the AT, including rides, gear, food, fitness, time off work, money, etc., but somehow failed to carry enough water to go 8 or 9 miles at this point on the trail.

It's one thing if you sprain your ankle, have to dry camp at an unexpected time, and then hobble to someone's door for help the next day. But if we're just in an ordinary hike, we need to carry enough supplies that we don't need to bother the people that live near the trail. If they want to interact with hikers at the times of their choosing, fine. But otherwise we need to be courteous and not bother them.

MDSection12
10-29-2013, 11:24
I'm going hiking today. I think I'll do some reverse trail magic and knock on this guy's door with a Nalgene of fresh spring water. :)

vamelungeon
10-29-2013, 12:08
Getting yourself in a jam and asking for water is not inherently wrong, but we should think about what we're doing from that person's perspective.

I have NEVER had anyone knock on my door and ask for water. If they did, I'd probably be glad for the opportunity to help. But, I live no where near a trail. This guy in MD lives right by the Appalachian Trail. How often should he cheerfully answer his door to give out water? Once a week? Three times a week? Three times per day? No telling how often it happens, but clearly this guy has people approach his house often to get water. He has the freedom to say "no", but that cannot be a serious counter argument. The actual cost of filling to Nalgene bottles is probably less than a penny. The cost of the water is not a factor. In order to say "no", they guy still has to deal with the interruption to whatever he's doing. You have to answer the door to say "no".

And this could happen while he's eating, watching football, taking a nap, or having romantic time with his wife. And why are people needing water there? When I hiked through that section, I carried enough water that I didn't have to knock on someone's door. It wasn't hard, but perhaps I was a tad slower going up those massive 500' climbs in the area. The people that stopped at his house, for the most part worked out all the logistics to be hiking the AT, including rides, gear, food, fitness, time off work, money, etc., but somehow failed to carry enough water to go 8 or 9 miles at this point on the trail.

It's one thing if you sprain your ankle, have to dry camp at an unexpected time, and then hobble to someone's door for help the next day. But if we're just in an ordinary hike, we need to carry enough supplies that we don't need to bother the people that live near the trail. If they want to interact with hikers at the times of their choosing, fine. But otherwise we need to be courteous and not bother them.

This!! If someone asked me if they could get have some water I'd give it to them, but I wouldn't like it at all if they just helped themselves unless it was an emergency. Common courtesy, which is apparently not so common, sadly.

Likeapuma
10-29-2013, 12:37
Since the guy obviously knows his property abuts the trail, rather than playing games, he needs to post his property.

Why should he have to put in the work? It's private property. You should have enough common sense to stay off property you don't belong on.





Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk

Another Kevin
10-29-2013, 14:09
Why should he have to put in the work? It's private property. You should have enough common sense to stay off property you don't belong on.

Note that I don't have a problem with the guy knocking on a door - that's not generally considered uncivilized, and I do have a problem with his just helping himself.

But I suppose I'm from a bygone time. I don't go onto the curtilage1 of a house. Generally, if it's obviously a yard - fenced in, or mowed as a lawn, or someone's vegetable garden - I'll enter only on what appears to be the path to the front door, and only if I have a reason to be knocking on the door.

But if a farmer or forest owner doesn't trouble to post, (1) it's not always clear where the public land ends and the private land begins, (2) the landowner may tolerate public access. The way I was brought up, if a farmer didn't post, it was all right to traverse a farm on the way into or out of the woods if you were unarmed (hunters are often NOT welcome), careful to follow fences and hedgerows (NEVER tread on crops!), left gates as you found them, didn't disturb livestock, didn't take or leave anything, and left immediately if asked to do so.

Even today, I've seen a fair number of holdings that are posted NO HUNTING, TRAPPING OR FISHING (rather than NO TRESPASSING), or give contact information and have ASK PERMISSION stickers on the posters.
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(These stickers indicate that permission may be routinely granted to recreational users.)

Even if posters don't have the ASK PERMISSION sticker, if they give adequate contact information, I don't hesitate to contact a landowner in advance to ask - as the proverb goes, "they don't shoot you for askin'". There are several hikes near here - including access to a couple of the listed high peaks - that require crossing private land. I find that the landowners are often so happy to be asked that they grant permission readily, at least outside of hunting season. (In New York State, I also try to get them to sign the standard permission slip (http://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/wildlife_pdf/ask.pdf), since having a signed permission card is a pretty darned good defense to a trespassing charge.)

1 Curtilage (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curtilage): the land immediately surrounding a house or dwelling, including any closely associated buildings and structures, but excluding any associated "open fields beyond". It delineates the boundary within which a home owner can have a reasonable expectation of privacy and where "intimate home activities" take place.

max patch
10-29-2013, 14:44
(In New York State, I also try to get them to sign the standard permission slip (http://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/wildlife_pdf/ask.pdf), since having a signed permission card is a pretty darned good defense to a trespassing charge.)



Seriously? If you asked permission to walk my property I'd give it to ya. If you then whipped out a permission slip and asked me to sign it I'd tell ya take a hike. And not on my property. No offense, but thats a bunch of BS.

max patch
10-29-2013, 14:46
Back in the day I remember a homeowner in one of those residential type road walks who had a sign on his mailbox inviting thru hikers to go to the backyard and use their swimming pool if they wanted to. I guess times have changed.

Mags
10-29-2013, 15:14
Back in the day I remember a homeowner in one of those residential type road walks who had a sign on his mailbox inviting thru hikers to go to the backyard and use their swimming pool if they wanted to. I guess times have changed.

Considering the amount of hikers on the AT (and the PCT for that matter) vs years past, I can see why.

Hosting a few dozen hikers a year over the course of several weeks or even months could be interesting and fun for the right person.

Hosting a few dozen hikers in a week strains the resources of many people who are not running a business.

Donna Saufley, well known PCT trail angel 450 miles up on the PCT (NoBo) now has a 50 person limit so she would not be overwhelmed, for example (and 50 ppl is still a lot by most standards)

So it goes.

max patch
10-29-2013, 15:23
Donna Saufley, well known PCT trail angel 450 miles up on the PCT (NoBo) now has a 50 person limit so she would not be overwhelmed, for example (and 50 ppl is still a lot by most standards)



50 at a time?! She must be a saint. Or crazy. Or perhaps a bit of both.

i'm going to show my ignorance of the PCT by stating that I'm surprised that the hiker level is such that 50 hikers would even be in the same place at the same time. I had no idea.

bfayer
10-29-2013, 15:41
Seriously? If you asked permission to walk my property I'd give it to ya. If you then whipped out a permission slip and asked me to sign it I'd tell ya take a hike. And not on my property. No offense, but thats a bunch of BS.

In Michigan you have to get permission to hunt on someone's farm land, posted or not. So permission slips are pretty common even if it doesn't involve hunting.

In fact if someone asks me to use my land, I ask them to sign a liability waiver so if they get hurt, I at least have something to show the judge if they try to sue me. It also protects them from the DNR officers that go wherever they please anytime they please and never ask permission. Funny how that works.

Another Kevin
10-29-2013, 16:36
Seriously? If you asked permission to walk my property I'd give it to ya. If you then whipped out a permission slip and asked me to sign it I'd tell ya take a hike. And not on my property. No offense, but thats a bunch of BS.

I point out that it's protecting them, since the top half is a signed waiver absolving them from liability if I screw up. And, as bfayer points out, it also protects me from the DEC officers (the NY counterpart of the DNR officers, with similar habits).

max patch
10-29-2013, 16:39
So the greatest nation on earth has been reduced to having its adults carrying around a bunch of permission slips?

Shakespeare had the right idea.

bfayer
10-29-2013, 17:03
So the greatest nation on earth has been reduced to having its adults carrying around a bunch of permission slips?

Shakespeare had the right idea.

There is a reason I prefer to live in Virginia :)

The world up North is a little different than down here.

Tuckahoe
10-29-2013, 18:39
Seriously? If you asked permission to walk my property I'd give it to ya. If you then whipped out a permission slip and asked me to sign it I'd tell ya take a hike. And not on my property. No offense, but thats a bunch of BS.


So the greatest nation on earth has been reduced to having its adults carrying around a bunch of permission slips?

Shakespeare had the right idea.

No need to get a lil worked up. These are principles long established in common law, statues and case law.

The single most effective defence to charge of criminal tresspass, hunting without permission on unposted land, and hunting on posted land is to have the written permission of the land owner or legal costodian.

As a shooter, it is considered good form to ask for and get written permission to use a landowner's property. And every land owner I have ever asked has happily provided the written permission. The only time I didnt get it is because they wanted to shoot with us; didnt need the permission then.

http://www.dgif.virginia.gov/hunting/regulations/privateproperty.asp

http://virginiacriminallawyers.vatrafficlaw.com/pages/trespass.html

http://www.ehow.com/info_8603844_penalties-trespassing-private-property-virginia.html


There is a reason I prefer to live in Virginia The world up North is a little different than down here.

I tend to agree with you and I will never live anywhere but Virginia. But Virginia has pretty well established tresspass laws that are not really different than anyplace else.

rickb
10-29-2013, 18:49
Back in the day I remember a homeowner in one of those residential type road walks who had a sign on his mailbox inviting thru hikers to go to the backyard and use their swimming pool if they wanted to. I guess times have changed.

Do you remember the Community Center in Dalton, MA?

i arrived late afternoon, so they gave me a quick tour and handed me the keys in case I went out to dinner. I guess they didn't want just anybody using the indoor pool :D.

Mags
10-29-2013, 21:09
50 at a time?! She must be a saint. Or crazy. Or perhaps a bit of both.

i'm going to show my ignorance of the PCT by stating that I'm surprised that the hiker level is such that 50 hikers would even be in the same place at the same time. I had no idea.

People tend to start roughly at the same time due to the smaller window on the PCT vs AT in terms of hiking (just ask the people out in WA state in October this year:O). Plus there is an annual KO (http://pct77.org/adz/) that tends to concentrate the usage of the PCT hikers in one very short, but very intense, time period.

Up until Kennedy Meadows (start of the High Sierra) many of the PCTers tend to clump in one town. After the High Sierra, tends to be less people.

Coffee
10-29-2013, 21:15
People tend to start roughly at the same time due to the smaller window on the PCT vs AT in terms of hiking (just ask the people out in WA state in October this year:O). Plus there is an annual KO (http://pct77.org/adz/) that tends to concentrate the usage of the PCT hikers in one very short, but very intense, time period.

Up until Kennedy Meadows (start of the High Sierra) many of the PCTers tend to clump in one town. After the High Sierra, tends to be less people.
From what I've read, one can avoid being in the "bubble" by starting a week before kick off but then one either misses kickoff or has to arrange a shuttle to get back to Lake Morena and then back to the trail where left off. I don't like hiking in large groups but want to go to the kickoff when I thru hike in 2015.

Mags
10-30-2013, 08:14
re: Avoiding herd

For the most part.

But, because the PCT is a smaller window, you will eventually see "clumps" in town up until Kennedy Meadows (esp if you hike more MPD and catch up to remnants of the "The Herd")

If you start earlier than the KO, you do not want to get to Kennedy Meadows to early in a higher snow year.

It all depends basically.

To get this back on topic, with more hikers on the scenic trails, people are less inclined to open up their homes.

One or two thirsty hikers using your garden hose is not a problem.

Dozens in a week? Could be annoying. :)