An interesting thread - watch video and critique - what is right and what is wrong..

[Wise Old Owl]

I see what I think are mistakes... and some things that are right... There are not any wrong or right answers... but would you do this and why or why not. How cold is this guy going to be in the morning?



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I36Li7cwduU

[Lone Wolf]

shoulda had a tent. i didn't watch it. didn't need to. amatures

[Wise Old Owl]

good start,,, OK

[hikerboy57]

kinda silly.wolfs right

[Rasty]

He's doing it all wrong.

[hikerboy57]

However I can see it being used in a survival situation in suburban Maryland

[Rasty]

You need a wall to push the heat towards your tarp to keep warm

[Just Bill]

100% with LW, but for pellets and hoots; let's assume some catastrophic event happened and you're in this situation.
First off- poor choice of opening music- from the soundtrack it's clear this guy packed up and left 15 minutes after finishing the video. You can see his buddy impatiently waiting in the background so they can get the hell out of there.
Right idea, horrible execution. Looks like a 5'x8' tarp, the space blanket coating is a nice touch- but you are unlikely to carry something like that unless your name is Tipi Walter, and he'd never get caught doing something like this.
First rule- toss out the clock, especially in winter. Why try to sleep at night, when the temps have dropped 20-30 degrees. Sleep during the day, stay active at night.
The tarp is the last thing up.
The "Bick, bick, bick rock" he was using as a heat reflector would take a forest fire to warm up, and he's too far away from it. However I did note as he scanned along that the near edge was sheltered from the snow and rain and was lined with a foot or so of leaves. First thing you do is use the tarp and gather as many of those leaves as you can to make a nice deep bed, 12" for dry leaves, 18" for damp. Clear the ground of snow first. Then gather several more piles to make sides for that shelter- those branches he put up wouldn't even screen you for hunting, let alone wind.
Use the snow to build a heat reflector, not the bick rock 8' away. Build the wall slightly sloping towards the shelter, and in a crescent shape to reflect maximum heat- the mass of snow won't melt. It would be about 12' long. Roll 2' diameter snowballs and drag them over on your tarp.
The trench fire is a good idea, but bad execution. In about twenty minutes that fire will get hot enough to melt the snow. In an hour, his fire will be out. Clear the snow out (and use it to build your heat reflector). I agree with elevating the fire to get it started. The fire needs to be 5-6' long to toss enough heat towards his shelter. He had the right width, but not the right length. (while there's something to be said for girth, length is always the key). Also- no pile of wood handy for him to feed that fire.
The tarp- angle is way to low. The tarp should be fixed at a 45 to 50 degree angle if you want it to catch heat. If it were truly an emergency, you won't be sleeping. Pitch the tarp as a two pole mid shelter so you can run the sides down. But if pitching the way he did, use 4' of the tarp to make the reflector side, and 1' to make a beak. Fill the sides with leaves. If it rains at all, he'll be soaked. If a breath of snow accumulates on his low, bungee corded tarp it will end up on top of him.
Finally- with the high angle of the tarp, you can pack the back side with leaves so that you have insulation there. Stuff the thing full and lay against it. Not sure if he had an actual sleeping pad or a bag of some sort. Either way, I wouldn't lie right on it, I'd fold it up and sit on it. Sleep during the day.

Practice a few times before you shoot a video, and preferably before you are in a life threatening situation. Practicing building shelters is fun.

Or just start a small fire, sit on your insulation, wrap the tarp around you and the fire.
Or start a fire to warm your hands and stay up all night by building an igloo- that would keep you warm and be dark enough to sleep in during the day.
Or- since we are backpackers- walk out. There's snow on the ground even without a headlamp it will be plenty bright.

You're right WOO- that was fun.

[Dogwood]

Agree with JB about the music. Had to be a German. Wait I'm German. It's one thing to know AHEAD OF TIME that you're about to put yourself in a survival situation and that the Volkwagen is 2 clicks over the nearby hill and it's another story UNEXPECTINGLY finding yourself SUDDENLY in a survival situation. It's always good to practice though. You're a regular riot JB a regular riot.

[Last Call]

So, the dude packs a machete, heavy tarp, heavy lines, but NO tent....Wait! ( I agree w/ Lone Wolf, but I DID watch half of it)

[Just Bill]

Forgot about the machete- and sinking it halfway into a living tree- what a Euro-Trash French Canadian. And that he went out to get another set of bungee cords because the plastic hook (which would snap in the cold if he stayed out long enough) was too big. Super Deutsche Bag.

[Dogwood]

So, the dude packs a machete, heavy tarp, heavy lines, but NO tent....Wait! ( I agree w/ Lone Wolf, but I DID watch half of it)

That's what I didn't get. Was he just practicing survival or bushmaster skills or going lighter wt or with found materials or what? I think he did a lot right and he had some excellent ideas but he could have executed a few things better.

[Just Bill]

Dammit WOO- look what you made Dogwood do. It's all fun and games until someone's curiosity is genuinely piqued.

[Sailing_Faith]

Crazy...

only slightly less clever then just laying in the snow to die... But much more trouble!

As I tell folks on boats all the time, a bungee does is the exact wrong tool for most jobs... Among his many problems, using bungee cords to suspend his tarp? The snow is falling in the video.

[Last Call]

Welp....I guess it's all about HYOH...why do hikers still carry hatchets? I just came off the AT yesterday (finished Georgia) & ran into 4 or 5 that were packin' hatchets on their hip. What are they gonna cut? Not to mention the weight.....

[T.S.Kobzol]

That is one thing that peeves me about stereotypical bushcrafters. They come to a site and start hacking everything up for the purpose of a weekend trip. That Oesterreicher should have gotten some educational beating for that.

The tarp is too small

The pitch is flimsy and will collapse under the falling snow (it was starting to snow towards the end of the video)

The fire is too small for reflective all nighter

The rock will give some warmth only if it has been heated by sun during the day

The cliff could send some nasty surprise to him. **** falls off the cliff often. :)

First pack down the snow. At least stomp your feet...second place some combination of debree (branches, leaves) to insulate off the ground. ...or bring 2 foam pads. They weigh next to nothing. Make walls out of snow.

Bring a decent sleeping bag. Even with all the setup it will still be cold as a bastard at night and especially from 3am until the sun shows up.

I would move away from rocks. Find a depression with natural walls


Etc...etc...


Bumblebee Tuna

[Wise Old Owl]

all good posts - that fire was a joke. he would have been sweaty toast at first and freezing the next - the bungee's were a trip. I have doubts about the pad on the snow having any insulation... he would have had to add pine broughs and leaves on top

[T.S.Kobzol]

We used to build semi long term shelters when I was 10. One shelter was really wicket cozy warm and it could have used some of the material this dude had. We found a nice depression that sheltered us from wind where we found a naturally curved place about the width of a leanto. We dug the place up a little bit to flatten out the sleeping quarters, to give it gentle down slope and then moved in branches and leaves. It was all nicely packed down. the natural curvature gave us side walls over which we placed dry tree trunks over which went the tarp over which went another round of trunks. The opening to the shelter was narrow. Maybe about feet but the gentle down slope created more space at the end of the shelter where we would place our backpacks and stuff. The narrow opening partially held in heat. The rest of the cavity was ground walls. I think it lasted us 2 seasons of winter use.

Another location where we built winter shelters was in a place with an abundance of slate. We would build walls, windows, doors, roofs and even mini chimney out of the slate. It was a little drafty but still good enough for winter use. My favorite way to make a meal was to bring fresh chicken breasts and aluminum foil, combine it with some butter and spices and stick it in between the slate of the indoor chimney. Let the heat do the rest. Yummy. (although I counterweighed it one trip with filtering my coffee through my felt hat.)

[Wise Old Owl]

Well TS. here is Bushcraft's video and look at the difference...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMWeThRdYKA&list=PL4B8BB1A6447B8E4F

[T.S.Kobzol]

yep. looks good. looks like they were super warm. Not sure what the lowest temp was but if I was expecting sub zero temperatures I would move away from the frozen brook or whatever that open space is behind them. I would move into a more sheltered site that cuts wind out and eliminates the refrigerator effect (water sources)

[RED-DOG]

I would have used Pine Bowls directly on the snow to insulate my body heat from the ground then my sleeping bag on that, the fire should have been long enough to cover the entire front of the Shelter then I also would have a Reflector wall on the other side of the fire to Radiate the heat inside the shelter, I also would have had a Debris shelter instead of the tarp, When it comes to self survival in the Wilderness L.N.T goes out the window.

[winger]

A Ray Mears wannabe.....or actually he probably never heard of Ray Mears.
Good vid for a laugh...waste of time.

[Wise Old Owl]

Well Winger its the internet and this time he wasn't French.... Hence I thought this would be a cool weight in!