View Full Version : Tips for dealing with lightning
I'm sure this has been covered, probably many times, but I can't find it....So, can you answer this? I guess the first thing you might want to do is ditch the aluminum poles, and whatever other metal you might have. Which means you probably don't want to go too far away, since you're going to want that stuff back when it's over. Then, what if you're in tall trees, but you see a more open spot not too far away -- are you better off in the tall trees or in the open (where YOU are the tallest thing around)?
About the only thing I ever learned about lightning safety was to get out of the pool! But, of course, if you're out hiking the trail, and it's lightning, odds are you are going to already be soaking wet...
So, can y'all advise?
Thanks!
MuddyWaters
10-19-2013, 16:37
If your on a ridge, peak, or open bald, get down immediately. Even if you have to go downhill off the trail. Probably the only time you should consider getting off the trail. Pay attention so you dont get lost.
Crouch down in a low depression, gully, etc, feet together. Beware that a tree that is struck will create shrapnel, and could fall on you as well.
Yes, put your poles down. Take your pack off.
If you are with others, spread out, at least 100 ft apart. You want someone unhurt in case of a strike to be able to render aid. Ground current can strike people away from where the lightning actually hits.
Actually, lighting can strike pretty far away from the actual storm. If you can hear thunder, you can be struck. Several miles is easily possible. Lighting strikes seem to be more associated with the leading edge of a storm as well. You can be struck and be totally dry.
swjohnsey
10-19-2013, 16:54
Not alot of the AT succeptable to lightning. I wouldn't walk across a bald or stand on an exposed ridge holding up my hiking pole but other than that I don't worry about it or meteor strikes.
ChinMusic
10-19-2013, 17:19
MW covered it well.
When golfing I used to hold a 1-iron up in the air. Even God can't hit a 1-iron........
Not alot of the AT succeptable to lightning.
Is that true? That is really surprising. I spent my youth in the south, and remember pretty awesome thunderstorms over there, so I would have thought you might get a lot of that, at least as far as up into the Smokies...
If your on a ridge, peak, or open bald, get down immediately. Even if you have to go downhill off the trail. Probably the only time you should consider getting off the trail. Pay attention so you dont get lost.
Crouch down in a low depression, gully, etc, feet together. Beware that a tree that is struck will create shrapnel, and could fall on you as well.
Yes, put your poles down. Take your pack off.
If you are with others, spread out, at least 100 ft apart. You want someone unhurt in case of a strike to be able to render aid. Ground current can strike people away from where the lightning actually hits.
Actually, lighting can strike pretty far away from the actual storm. If you can hear thunder, you can be struck. Several miles is easily possible. Lighting strikes seem to be more associated with the leading edge of a storm as well. You can be struck and be totally dry.
Thank you, MuddyWaters. That's exactly the kind of advice I was looking for.
ChinMusic
10-19-2013, 17:34
Is that true? That is really surprising. I spent my youth in the south, and remember pretty awesome thunderstorms over there, so I would have thought you might get a lot of that, at least as far as up into the Smokies...
It's not like you will be hiking in vulnerable areas every day, but there are plenty of places on the AT where I would take special care during a lightning storm. Those places are pretty obvious when you get there.
I had one place in southern Maine (Lone Mountain, I think) when I was about to get to the ridge during a thunderstorm. I chose to stay just below the ridge not knowing how exposed it was. It turned out the ridge was pretty tame with regards to lightning.
It's not like you will be hiking in vulnerable areas every day, but there are plenty of places on the AT where I would take special care during a lightning storm. Those places are pretty obvious when you get there.
I had one place in southern Maine (Lone Mountain, I think) when I was about to get to the ridge during a thunderstorm. I chose to stay just below the ridge not knowing how exposed it was. It turned out the ridge was pretty tame with regards to lightning.
Thanks, Chin. I appreciate all the advice I can get...(and I KNEW you were gonna hit me with somethin better than that one-iron joke! :) JUS KIDDIN!!
ChinMusic
10-19-2013, 18:15
Re trees: You want to stay away from lone trees or the tallest tree. Trees in general are not especially dangerous. Your odds in heavy woods are pretty dang good, but if your number is up, your number is up.
My scariest lightning event was early in the Shenandoah's (I think Beagle Gap, not sure). B-Rocket and I were in the middle of a nasty storm. She chose to stay in some brushy area to get out of the bulk of the rain. That area didn't look too dangerous but the trees looked a bit isolated for my taste. I chose to stay away from the trees and crouch into a catcher's position with my feet as close together as I could tolerate (tough position to hold for long for me, knees don't like it). It seemed like the lightning was cloud-to-cloud but I wasn't sure. Once it passed (another one was coming) I said, "Let's go, but stay well behind me". She was taken aback and said, "Why". I said, "So the sniper doesn't get both of us".
My suggestion was not reassuring.
Re trees: You want to stay away from lone trees or the tallest tree. Trees in general are not especially dangerous. Your odds in heavy woods are pretty dang good, but if your number is up, your number is up.
My scariest lightning event was early in the Shenandoah's (I think Beagle Gap, not sure). B-Rocket and I were in the middle of a nasty storm. She chose to stay in some brushy area to get out of the bulk of the rain. That area didn't look too dangerous but the trees looked a bit isolated for my taste. I chose to stay away from the trees and crouch into a catcher's position with my feet as close together as I could tolerate (tough position to hold for long for me, knees don't like it). It seemed like the lightning was cloud-to-cloud but I wasn't sure. Once it passed (another one was coming) I said, "Let's go, but stay well behind me". She was taken aback and said, "Why". I said, "So the sniper doesn't get both of us".
My suggestion was not reassuring.
No, it was not reassuring, and it brought to mind MW's earlier advice about having the group spread out, so that at least one of us might be left to render aid. I know it makes sense, but it's somehow a little depressing, nevertheless...
And one thing about these adventures -- you always will have these great memories like this one of yours, to fondly conjure up and reminisce...
But Chin, I'm 66 now, and my knees are telling me that I can forget about that catcher's position! :) I guess I need "plan B". How 'bout if I just lay down? It may be somewhat undignified, and I'll get muddy, but if it keeps me from getting fried, I'll take it!
Roy Sullivan would disagree. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Sullivan
ChinMusic
10-19-2013, 19:03
But Chin, I'm 66 now, and my knees are telling me that I can forget about that catcher's position! :) I guess I need "plan B". How 'bout if I just lay down? It may be somewhat undignified, and I'll get muddy, but if it keeps me from getting fried, I'll take it!
LOL, I hear ya. That catcher's position is a younger man's game. I don't have anything to back up the following comment.
Instead of laying down, which increases your risk of scatter, I would just get down on my knees. Good praying position as well, dual use.......
Gonecampn
10-19-2013, 22:21
i know that NC is a leader in lightening strike deaths. The scariest electrical storm that I have ever been in was on the Pinhoti in AL. I was seriously texting my good byes to family. It was AWFUL lightning was bouncing all around and this went on for over an hour. I sure hope that I never have to expierence that again ........
garlic08
10-19-2013, 23:17
Stay away from shallow caves, rock overhangs, and rock outcroppings. Arcing ground currents can get you there.
When I'm caught well above treeline with no chance of escape, I'll set up my shelter and lie on my dry foam pad and take a break. The reason you keep your feet together is to prevent those ground currents from traveling through your body core from wet foot to wet foot. I feel safe enough, and a whole lot more comfortable, on a dry insulating pad. My shelter sets up in a minute or two so it's an easy option.
Here's a photo of me on the AT in NY, right after an uncomfortably close strike:
24559
I can assure you, there is risk of lightning on the AT.
Wise Old Owl
10-19-2013, 23:41
MW covered it well.
When golfing I used to hold a 1-iron up in the air. Even God can't hit a 1-iron........
Key thing to posting... never say God can't.... I watched this personally live and real time and at the top of his swing boom.
Lee Trevino
At the Western Open (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Open) near Chicago (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago) in 1975 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975_PGA_Tour), Trevino was struck by lightning (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning_strike) and suffered injuries to his spine. He underwent surgery to remove a damaged spinal disk, but back problems continued to hamper his play. Nevertheless, he was ranked second in McCormack's World Golf Rankings (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCormack%27s_World_Golf_Rankings) in 1980 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980_PGA_Tour) behind Tom Watson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Watson_%28golfer%29). Trevino had 3 PGA Tour wins in 1980 and finished runner-up to Tom Watson in the 1980 Open Championship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980_Open_Championship). At the age of 44, Trevino won his sixth and final major at the PGA Championship in 1984 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_PGA_Championship), with a 15-under-par score of 273, becoming the first player to shoot all four rounds under 70 in the PGA Championship.[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Trevino#cite_note-6) He was the runner-up the following year in 1985, attempting to become the first repeat champion since Denny Shute (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denny_Shute) in 1937 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1937_PGA_Championship)
Roy Sullivan would disagree. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Sullivan
oh, mama!
Key thing to posting... never say God can't.... I watched this personally live and real time and at the top of his swing boom.
Lee Trevino
At the Western Open (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Open) near Chicago (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago) in 1975 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975_PGA_Tour), Trevino was struck by lightning (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning_strike) and suffered injuries to his spine. He underwent surgery to remove a damaged spinal disk, but back problems continued to hamper his play. Nevertheless, he was ranked second in McCormack's World Golf Rankings (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCormack%27s_World_Golf_Rankings) in 1980 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980_PGA_Tour) behind Tom Watson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Watson_%28golfer%29). Trevino had 3 PGA Tour wins in 1980 and finished runner-up to Tom Watson in the 1980 Open Championship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980_Open_Championship). At the age of 44, Trevino won his sixth and final major at the PGA Championship in 1984 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_PGA_Championship), with a 15-under-par score of 273, becoming the first player to shoot all four rounds under 70 in the PGA Championship.[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Trevino#cite_note-6) He was the runner-up the following year in 1985, attempting to become the first repeat champion since Denny Shute (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denny_Shute) in 1937 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1937_PGA_Championship)
I think I remember that...I guess the question is, "Was Lee using a one-iron? " :)
Wise Old Owl
10-20-2013, 00:02
We will never know.. Ask.... nevermind.
Stay away from shallow caves, rock overhangs, and rock outcroppings. Arcing ground currents can get you there.
When I'm caught well above treeline with no chance of escape, I'll set up my shelter and lie on my dry foam pad and take a break. The reason you keep your feet together is to prevent those ground currents from traveling through your body core from wet foot to wet foot. I feel safe enough, and a whole lot more comfortable, on a dry insulating pad. My shelter sets up in a minute or two so it's an easy option.
Here's a photo of me on the AT in NY, right after an uncomfortably close strike:
24559
I can assure you, there is risk of lightning on the AT.
Wow..that WAS close! (Glad to see you're smiling in that pic!) What happened after that? Did somebody get there to put out that fire, or was it just wet enough that it went out on its own?
I do feel like a hike of significant distance on the AT is almost certain to involve lightning at some point!
Couple questions, G08: 1) Does "setting up your shelter" involve any metal? If so, isn't that dangerous?
2) This one's a follow-up on your explanation of the current -- which is something I don't really understand too well. So, if the feet are apart, the current may travel from the ground, up thru one wet foot and back thru the other wet foot to ground, and the harm is done because it's going from ground back to ground, is that right? But if your feet are together, then what happens? Does the lightning go up your feet and exit your body somewhere else, not causing harm because it didn't go back to ground? Is that kinda what's going on?
ChinMusic
10-20-2013, 00:23
2) This one's a follow-up on your explanation of the current -- which is something I don't really understand too well. So, if the feet are apart, the current may travel from the ground, up thru one wet foot and back thru the other wet foot to ground, and the harm is done because it's going from ground back to ground, is that right? But if your feet are together, then what happens? Does the lightning go up your feet and exit your body somewhere else, not causing harm because it didn't go back to ground? Is that kinda what's going on?
Having feet further apart creates a greater differential between the feet and allows for more current. Crouchng on ONE foot would be ideal....lol
garlic08
10-20-2013, 08:20
Wow..that WAS close! (Glad to see you're smiling in that pic!) What happened after that? Did somebody get there to put out that fire, or was it just wet enough that it went out on its own?
I do feel like a hike of significant distance on the AT is almost certain to involve lightning at some point!
Couple questions, G08: 1) Does "setting up your shelter" involve any metal? If so, isn't that dangerous?
2) This one's a follow-up on your explanation of the current -- which is something I don't really understand too well. So, if the feet are apart, the current may travel from the ground, up thru one wet foot and back thru the other wet foot to ground, and the harm is done because it's going from ground back to ground, is that right? But if your feet are together, then what happens? Does the lightning go up your feet and exit your body somewhere else, not causing harm because it didn't go back to ground? Is that kinda what's going on?
Yeah, it was so damn wet that year the fire just went out after smoking a little. That's a nervous grin, by the way.
My shelter uses a trekking pole and my pole is carbon fiber, so no worries. I'm not concerned about metal poles either because they're not grounded--they have an insulating handle. And I'm not touching it.
That's not to say I feel warm and fuzzy up on a ridge in lightning. It's one of the worst places to be and I really try to avoid it. But if you get outside enough you're just going to have to deal with severe weather as best you can and with the best tools and knowledge at your disposal. Or just stay home like most people do. For me, hiking as much as I do in Colorado's high country, occasionally pitching shelter in a storm is safer than running down rocky slopes to treeline.
ChinMusic answered your second question perfectly--not bad for a retired guy who's not even an engineer. It's called "step potential" in substation design, where ground currents are routinely seen and grounding systems are designed to protect life.
Having feet further apart creates a greater differential between the feet and allows for more current. Crouchng on ONE foot would be ideal....lol
yeah, LOL is right! yer killin me, Chin! :)
Sounds to me like my best bet is Garlic's idea re. setting up a shelter with carbon fiber poles (dang -- I just bought some new aluminum ones!) and laying down on a foam mattress!
My shelter uses a trekking pole and my pole is carbon fiber, so no worries. I'm not concerned about metal poles either because they're not grounded--they have an insulating handle. And I'm not touching it.
ChinMusic answered your second question perfectly--not bad for a retired guy who's not even an engineer. It's called "step potential" in substation design, where ground currents are routinely seen and grounding systems are designed to protect life.
Thanks again, Garlic08. Your response, and Chin's are still bringing up questions for me on that current, but I think they're getting out of the "hiker forum" category, and time for me to go check with an electrician on another site. I'm looking forward to this hike -- it's gonna be fun and I'll have great memories -- assuming I can gather up enough knowledge beforehand about the hazards along the way, (or have enough 'dumb' luck along the way), so that I can make it safely to the end!
I'm sure this has been covered, probably many times, but I can't find it....So, can you answer this?
Thanks!
Don't worry about it. If you get hit, you either wake up, or you don't. Thor works in mysterious ways.
I hike a LOT faster, thats for sure...............made a personal record coming into the Partnership Shelter from the North.
All three of my lightening hits came in NC, none on the AT. 1st time was on the Art Loeb trail along the Davidson River. Lightening hit a cliff above my head, nowhere near a ridge line, ran down the rock face across the ground and up my legs to just above the knees. I was not standing with my feet together. I bolted back across the river, wading, and back to my car a half mile upstream where I rode out the storm. Probably a stupid thing to do but I was scared.
Second time was in Black Mountain at a horse show holding a horse for the farrier. Storm came up and we huddled around his truck which had lift gates on the side that we were underneath. Lightning hit a big lone tree nearby, ran across the ground, and up the legs of everyone including the horse who drug me a fair distance before calming down.
Third time was hiking on Hazel Creek with my daughter in the Smokies. On our way to our first camp a storm came up. We moved upstream to a place away from big rocks and big trees, put on our ponchos and hunkered down with our feet together. She was too young to separate from. Lightning hit a tree not far away and ran across the ground to us. All we felt was a tingle in our feet and ankles.
My take away, based on these experiences, is that while there were ridges all around me on all three occasions, that is not where the lightening struck,(though it may have struck there too....no way to know). So yeah, move away from prominent tall things and hunker down, but don't expect to be safe off the ridge.
All three of my lightening hits came in NC, none on the AT. 1st time was on the Art Loeb trail along the Davidson River. Lightening hit a cliff above my head, nowhere near a ridge line, ran down the rock face across the ground and up my legs to just above the knees. I was not standing with my feet together. I bolted back across the river, wading, and back to my car a half mile upstream where I rode out the storm. Probably a stupid thing to do but I was scared.
Second time was in Black Mountain at a horse show holding a horse for the farrier. Storm came up and we huddled around his truck which had lift gates on the side that we were underneath. Lightning hit a big lone tree nearby, ran across the ground, and up the legs of everyone including the horse who drug me a fair distance before calming down.
Third time was hiking on Hazel Creek with my daughter in the Smokies. On our way to our first camp a storm came up. We moved upstream to a place away from big rocks and big trees, put on our ponchos and hunkered down with our feet together. She was too young to separate from. Lightning hit a tree not far away and ran across the ground to us. All we felt was a tingle in our feet and ankles.
My take away, based on these experiences, is that while there were ridges all around me on all three occasions, that is not where the lightening struck,(though it may have struck there too....no way to know). So yeah, move away from prominent tall things and hunker down, but don't expect to be safe off the ridge.
omg...what can I say! Glad you're still with us, Afi...but you're scarin me!
omg...what can I say! Glad you're still with us, Afi...but you're scarin me!
You've already outlived me by eight years!
You've already outlived me by eight years!
maybe -- but I've been playing it safe up to now.
I would never set up my shelter in an exposed area to ride out a thunderstorm. Get below tree line ASAP, and don't stay under the tallest object. Get away from any metal objects that you are carrying. Technically, the feet together, crouch position is correct, but at that point your odds of being struck are pretty low, so it may be more practical to just get comfortable.
I would never set up my shelter in an exposed area to ride out a thunderstorm. Get below tree line ASAP, and don't stay under the tallest object. Get away from any metal objects that you are carrying. Technically, the feet together, crouch position is correct, but at that point your odds of being struck are pretty low, so it may be more practical to just get comfortable.
Ok, thanks. Yeah, a lightning storm can last a while -- a whole lot longer than I could stay in that crouch position --IF I could even get into it in the first place!