View Full Version : bears bags and bear safety
squeezebox
10-20-2013, 08:26
sorry I'm sure this has been beaten to death, but I still need to ask about bear safety.
What about wild hogs?
How far away from the tent do you need to go to pour out the pee bottle.
Does pee attract varmits?
Thanks for sharing your knowledge!
Wild hogs are no real threat. They run away. It's rare to see them along the AT. They will only come after you if it thinks it's cornered. Most of the stories about people getting chomped on involve a hunter and a wounded pig. Human urine smells like "human" to wild animals. It won't attract anything. How far away to put it is more of a sanitation thing. I always laugh when I see a tent 20 feet behind a shelter. Setting up a tent in a spot that has been a urinal for 50 years. Lucky thing that hikers smell bad anyway.
bigcranky
10-20-2013, 15:05
I usually hang my food bag, using the PCT Method (http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/bear_bag_hanging_technique.html#.UmQoVpSlikE). Sometimes I sleep with my food in my tent. Depends on how I feel and where I am camping. But hanging one's food on the AT is almost never a bad idea.
Other bear safety: if you see a bear on the trail, 99% of the time the bear will run away. Most of the bears I've seen went about 25 yards then stopped and watched me pass. No biggie, though it does get the heart rate up a bit :)
Wild hogs: not a problem.
Pee bottle: only in the coldest weather. Otherwise I just get up and go pee in the middle of the night. Not right next to the tent, especially if tenting in a popular area. Pour out the pee bottle in the same place you would pee.... Pee does attract animals -- I watched a deer eat the grass I peed on out in front of my tent one night. Interesting.
MuddyWaters
10-20-2013, 15:35
A poor hang is worse than no hang when it comes to food.
Some pee around their tent intentionally because its more human scent to discourage a bear. I dont know if there is a right or wrong. Technically, probably should pee on rocks, because animals will eat items that are peed on for the salt, this can kill trees, plants, and damage any manmade wooden structures.
No pee bottle. Just get up if have too.
ChinMusic
10-20-2013, 16:36
Sleep with food. Pee around tent before sleep. Use pee bottle.
Agree w MW on peeing on rocks. Had a porcupine dig next to my tent in MA this summer. Peed on rocks after that.
Sleep with food. Pee around tent before sleep. Use pee bottle.
Agree w MW on peeing on rocks. Had a porcupine dig next to my tent in MA this summer. Peed on rocks after that.
yeah, but try and find a rock that doesn't look too comfortable -- cause I like to sometimes sit and rest on a rock, if it looks comfortable enough...(but after this, I think I may adjust my thinking!)
ChinMusic
10-20-2013, 18:01
yeah, but try and find a rock that doesn't look too comfortable -- cause I like to sometimes sit and rest on a rock, if it looks comfortable enough...(but after this, I think I may adjust my thinking!)
I worry more about blueberries next to the trail..........
I worry more about blueberries next to the trail..........
oh, man! Now you really ARE ruinin my day!!! :) I remember eatin those blackberries off the sides of mountains, back in the old days (70s), when my buddy and me used to ride our bikes on weekend trips from Atlanta up into the Smokies... Now I'm wonderin -- but, I'm guessing the mountain sides were probably safe from hiker pee!!! :)
speaking of bear bags, I've been checking the web re. this PCT system, and found it looks like a few companies actually sell everything you need for that -- the food bag, rock bag, rope, caribener, etc. Do any of you have a recommendation on any of these? I saw a review on one of them that said as soon as the guy threw the rock bag over the tree, the bag tore up...So, I don't want that one!
Also, I think I read that you have to have a cannister in some places (i.e. Smokies). Is that true? If so, I guess most folks probably just use a cannister where it's required and then mail it home afterwards? Probably don't want to carry that extra weight the whole way if you don't have to....Thoughts?
MuddyWaters
10-20-2013, 18:16
When my daughter was making dinner one night, I told here to wash the lettuce.
She said "what for"
I said " you know they bring in "migrant" mexican workers to pick those, right? Do you think they come in out of the fields whenever they have to pee?
She washes everything now.
squeezebox
10-20-2013, 19:05
Thanks for the point of camping far enough from the urinal.
Yes I do pee in my garden,
SouthMark
10-20-2013, 21:22
Also, I think I read that you have to have a cannister in some places (i.e. Smokies). Is that true? If so, I guess most folks probably just use a cannister where it's required and then mail it home afterwards? Probably don't want to carry that extra weight the whole way if you don't have to....Thoughts?
Canisters are not required in the Smokies. The only place on the AT where one is required is within a five mile section of GA just before Neels Gap. And then only during the Spring and only if camping in that section. Most just hike on through this section before camping.
SouthMark
10-20-2013, 21:23
Urine is sterile.
Sandy of PA
10-20-2013, 21:37
I always carry my bear can, it is very effective for mice and other critters too!
ChinMusic
10-20-2013, 21:52
If you choose not to sleep with your food a canister is a reasonable option.
1. You KNOW your food will be safe.
2. You will not be "that guy" that poorly hangs his food, losing it, and contributing to the death of a bear.
3. You will save time in camp by not having to find that perfect tree and make the perfect throw.
4. Gives you something to sit on for breaks/camp.
5. Not as much of a weight penalty as you may think when you subtract rope, bag, etc.
If you choose not to sleep with your food a canister is a reasonable option.
1. You KNOW your food will be safe.
2. You will not be "that guy" that poorly hangs his food, losing it, and contributing to the death of a bear.
3. You will save time in camp by not having to find that perfect tree and make the perfect throw.
4. Gives you something to sit on for breaks/camp.
5. Not as much of a weight penalty as you may think when you subtract rope, bag, etc.
Well wait a second. Just because you put it in a canister, you still want to hang it, right? Cause I hear these things are NOT "smell-proof", so the bears still know there's food in them, and they'll go after them, won't they? If you don't have to hang the canister, then what do you do with it -- just put it outside your tent somewhere?
Urine is sterile.
I have heard this. I don't wish to believe it.
Cvt
GoodGerman
10-21-2013, 06:28
Well wait a second. Just because you put it in a canister, you still want to hang it, right? Cause I hear these things are NOT "smell-proof", so the bears still know there's food in them, and they'll go after them, won't they? If you don't have to hang the canister, then what do you do with it -- just put it outside your tent somewhere?
Afaik bear canisters are not designed to be hung. When you hang them a bear can grab/bite/paw it.
Because they can't get a hold of them on the ground, they will leave it alone eventually.
Here is a link with more informations.
http://www.dec.ny.gov/animals/30876.html
Don't leave it near a cliff or pond too though.. Probably just stick it in the middle of a bush.
If you want your food around and on the ground, then you could also use an "ursack" and tie it to a tree.
I will use a drybag for my thru - and hang it PCT style :)
daddytwosticks
10-21-2013, 07:11
Bear Gryll drinks his pee. That's good enough for me. :)
Well wait a second. Just because you put it in a canister, you still want to hang it, right? Cause I hear these things are NOT "smell-proof", so the bears still know there's food in them, and they'll go after them, won't they? If you don't have to hang the canister, then what do you do with it -- just put it outside your tent somewhere?
You don't hang canisters, just leave them on the ground at least 50-100 yards from your camp in a place where it cannot roll down a hill or into a lake. Bears in the Sierra Nevada don't even bother investigating when they see the canister. I suspect that bears who never or rarely see canisters are more likely to investigate and make a futile attempt to break in but this has never happened to me the few times I've used a canister on the AT. I'm going to give sleeping with food a shot soon since I'm eager to ditch the canister where not needed and I'm not that confident in my hanging abilities.
Afaik bear canisters are not designed to be hung. When you hang them a bear can grab/bite/paw it.
Because they can't get a hold of them on the ground, they will leave it alone eventually.
Here is a link with more informations.
http://www.dec.ny.gov/animals/30876.html
Don't leave it near a cliff or pond too though.. Probably just stick it in the middle of a bush.
If you want your food around and on the ground, then you could also use an "ursack" and tie it to a tree.
I will use a drybag for my thru - and hang it PCT style :)
Ok, thanks for this. This looks like the easiest option, but just thinking that if the can's 100 yrds away and the bear is fooling with it during the night, then I might have a tough time finding it in the morning. I'm leaning towards that pct approach also.
ChinMusic
10-21-2013, 10:29
Ok, thanks for this. This looks like the easiest option, but just thinking that if the can's 100 yrds away and the bear is fooling with it during the night, then I might have a tough time finding it in the morning. I'm leaning towards that pct approach also.The PCT method is an excellent option. IMO, there is no need whatsoever to place your canister 100 yards from your shelter on the AT. But, I sleep with my food too.
The PCT method is an excellent option. IMO, there is no need whatsoever to place your canister 100 yards from your shelter on the AT. But, I sleep with my food too.
you're a brave man, Chin! well, RamblingHiker said he was going to do that also. Is that pretty common, would you say? People (and I'm not talking about weekenders and/or partying college kids -- but thru-hikers or section hikers -- people that know what they're doing) -- do a lot of those folks not bother with separating themselves from their food when they camp?
ChinMusic
10-21-2013, 12:53
you're a brave man, Chin! well, RamblingHiker said he was going to do that also. Is that pretty common, would you say? People (and I'm not talking about weekenders and/or partying college kids -- but thru-hikers or section hikers -- people that know what they're doing) -- do a lot of those folks not bother with separating themselves from their food when they camp?
It's not bravery. I certainly do not sleep with my food in griz country. I use a can in griz areas and DO place the can far from my shelter. For the AT I have come to the personal decision that the risk of a bear coming into my occupied tent is low, so low that I don't even think about it anymore. Now, I don't set my tent up next to a dumpster either. I'm not looking for a confrontation.
I can't speak for others but my general observations on the trail are that many people are pretty sloppy with the protection of their food. Food being poorly hung being the most common issue and this, IMO, is the leading cause of creating a "problem bear". Many hikers will also take off their packs to get water, leaving their food in the pack. I never leave my food unattended, whether that be day or night. My food stays in my possession.
hikerboy57
10-21-2013, 13:35
if you want to stay safe, hang your food, preferably pct style.
if you want to keep your food safe, sleep with it. i dont recommend this for beginners,but ive slept with my food for years without incident.this is specific to eastern black bears and the at, not trails out west or grizzly country.there are also many sites in the ne that have bear boxes you can store your food in.
if you want to stay safe, hang your food, preferably pct style.
if you want to keep your food safe, sleep with it. i dont recommend this for beginners,but ive slept with my food for years without incident.this is specific to eastern black bears and the at, not trails out west or grizzly country.there are also many sites in the ne that have bear boxes you can store your food in.
Thanks Chin and HB. I guess, when I get there, I'll be prepared to hang PCT style, and maybe I'll get comfortable just sleeping with it also.
Lone Wolf
10-21-2013, 17:15
if you want to stay safe, hang your food, preferably pct style.
this is the AT. why isn't there an AT style? i'll continue to sleep with my food wolf style
hikerboy57
10-21-2013, 17:27
this is the AT. why isn't there an AT style? i'll continue to sleep with my food wolf style
apparently, from what ive seen on the trail, at-style is hanging it on a shrub.
MuddyWaters
10-21-2013, 19:36
apparently, from what ive seen on the trail, at-style is hanging it on a shrub.
++
Or from a mouse trapeze in a shelter.
Actually, I think the "PCT" style isnt even allowed on the PCT, the forest service wants counterbalance method. Which is hard with only 1 foodbag.
Wait a minute..hold the phone. You dont think the realize that now do you????
Sandy of PA
10-21-2013, 20:44
In a shelter the bearcan makes a great nightstand. When tenting I put it where I can see it from my tent, or in the vestibule. I do use oderblocking bags inside to reduce smellablity.
The "vestibule"? Well, my momma always made me EAT all my vestibules! :)
Seriously, I'm gonna have to look up "vestibule!". But, now that you mention "smellability" -- something occurs to me... I wonder what a sweaty hiker smells like to a bear? I'm thinking, maybe hot fudge sundae? ( I know, that's probably only in griz country!)
One thing, tho, I'm starting to feel a lot safer re. the bears, from some of the comments in this thread -- plus just other reading. (Although, I know better than to get too comfortable!)
squeezebox
10-22-2013, 05:38
I could see a project of doing food boxes near shelters, probably near the privy (convenience) say 2' x 4' , 12-18 " tall 18" off the ground made of treated 2x2 and 1/2 " treated plywood. hinged lid with hasp and hook closure. cut it up at home as a kit, haul it in, 1/2 lb of screws , battery drill. Xtra battery 2 hrs. to cut at home , 2 hrs to assemble on site. material cost $50 , no need to be waterproof, waterproofing food is up to the hiker. might want to put the legs 1' in the ground to keep bears and ******** from moving them.
MHO
Sarcasm the elf
10-22-2013, 08:39
I could see a project of doing food boxes near shelters, probably near the privy (convenience) say 2' x 4' , 12-18 " tall 18" off the ground made of treated 2x2 and 1/2 " treated plywood. hinged lid with hasp and hook closure. cut it up at home as a kit, haul it in, 1/2 lb of screws , battery drill. Xtra battery 2 hrs. to cut at home , 2 hrs to assemble on site. material cost $50 , no need to be waterproof, waterproofing food is up to the hiker. might want to put the legs 1' in the ground to keep bears and ******** from moving them.
MHO
Bear boxes are made of steel, not wood. They are already in place at nearly every shelter I've been to from NJ through MA. Usually they are either professionally designed bear boxes, or heavy duty jobsite tool boxes with an additional latching mechanism welded on.
For various reasons, maintaining clubs in some states have chosen not to install them.
you can look through google images to get an idea of what they look like.
https://www.google.com/search?q=bear+box+appalachian+trail&client=safari&hl=en&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=JXJmUrr7Ovbd4AOx1IGYCQ&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAA&biw=568&bih=268
Your worries are mis-directed. The AT shelters (unless it has been reolocated and brand new) are usually invested with mice. Several years ago there was an out break of plague spread by mice in the southwest. If it's there it can be here. Keep your self as clean as possible and avoid the shelters as much as you can.
Stay well.
Cvt
MuddyWaters
10-22-2013, 20:30
I could see a project of doing food boxes near shelters, probably near the privy (convenience) say 2' x 4' , 12-18 " tall 18" off the ground made of treated 2x2 and 1/2 " treated plywood. hinged lid with hasp and hook closure. cut it up at home as a kit, haul it in, 1/2 lb of screws , battery drill. Xtra battery 2 hrs. to cut at home , 2 hrs to assemble on site. material cost $50 , no need to be waterproof, waterproofing food is up to the hiker. might want to put the legs 1' in the ground to keep bears and ******** from moving them.
MHO
That wouldnt ever stop a single rat. They can eat thru 3/4" plywood in a couple hours.
squeezebox
10-22-2013, 23:01
Can't imagine the effort it takes to haul in a job box, thank you volunteers.
Another Kevin
10-22-2013, 23:10
That wouldnt ever stop a single rat. They can eat thru 3/4" plywood in a couple hours.
And that's to say nothing of porcupines!