View Full Version : bathing
squeezebox
10-22-2013, 06:44
Is it okay to bathe in a stream as long as you don't use soap etc. ?
What about rinsing clothes ?
daddytwosticks
10-22-2013, 07:07
Oh boy, where's the popcorn! :)
T.S.Kobzol
10-22-2013, 07:12
Just do it far downstream from where others get water and use a biodegradable soap
Bumblebee Tuna
Is it okay to bathe in a stream as long as you don't use soap etc. ?
What about rinsing clothes ?
No problem.
Just don't do it in or directly above or in an obvious source of drinking water at an established campsite, or right next to the Trail.
if you want to use soap, fill up your water bladder and bottles and move away from the stream to soap up and rinse off. You don't to use "special" biodegradable soap either -- just common sense and consideration.
Best to be modesty regardless of age and gender.
FarmerChef
10-22-2013, 07:48
Ok. I'll bite...
If I'm up high and there's a spring or small spring fed stream I will take water from the stream and wash elsewhere (well away from the stream where my skank and, um, bad bacteria won't go in the water). The guiding principle here is that it's possible the stream crosses a trail further downstream where I or another hiker might be getting water again. I wouldn't want to drink my skank, would you?
If I'm down low and the volume of water is much higher I just jump right in and enjoy a good swim, clothes on, sans soap. Most of the time, I wouldn't take water from a low stream if I could avoid it. By that point, there's all kinds of funk in there from farm animals, sewers, drainfields, road runoff, etc., etc., etc.
With regard to the soap I loosely follow this: http://www.backcountryattitude.com/biodegradable_soap.html
Hill Ape
10-22-2013, 08:02
oh yeah man, i can't wait to fill my water bottle downstream from your nasty filth, and for extra measure i'll throw in some dancing bananas, free of charge since you don't like them :banana:banana:banana:banana:banana:banana:banana: banana:banana:banana
Another Kevin
10-22-2013, 08:08
Bathing in a stream and not using soap is called "swimming." When there's enough water that you won't noticeably foul it by your very presence, swimming is usually considered acceptable behaviour.
On trips longer than an overnighter, I ordinarily bring a collapsible bucket. One of its purposes is holding washwater. Which gets disposed of well away from a trail or water source, either in a cathole or widely dispersed depending on the terrain and the preference of the land manager.
Trailweaver
10-22-2013, 10:05
It' just not that hard to bathe without doing it near/in a creek. Take your bath away from a clean water source - with or without soap. . . Unless the creek (or pond) is really large enough for swimming. Please. Thank you.
You can not be serious with the question. Got to be trying to light a fire here for some reason. But i will give it a go. you dont know others bathing habits or health status. lets say a hiker upstream from you has a bleeding hemorrhoid, hepatitis, herpes, and a sever case of leaking bowels from the medication his doctor gave to treat the triple threat he has to deal with. would you seriously want to drink the water that just rinsed his nethers? if you see no issue in that you must love bear grylls and his snake skin urine holder that doubles as reusable condom for the film crew. it is filthy, disgusting, rude, and a blatant disregard for the well being of others. so i ask you kindly, please do not do it.
Slo-go'en
10-22-2013, 10:30
There aren't many streams on the AT big enough or deep enough to bathe in. Those which are are generally near a town or along a road. And without soap, about all you can do is rinse some dirt off your legs. Anyway, the water is usually friggen cold.
I'll dip a bandana or t-shirt in a stream to rinse the salt/sweat out of it, but wring it out over the shore. For a more serious wash with soap, that is done in a plastic bag a reasonable distance away from the stream. There is *always* someone down stream. If you carry your water in a water bladder, you can make an impervised shower out of it easy enough, which would be better then trying to wash in the stream. If you have some time to kill, you can put the bladder in the sun for a while to warm it up too.
hikerboy57
10-22-2013, 10:50
im resigned to waiting for town for my showers, just focus on keeping my feet clean. like slogoen says, its usually too friggin cold to bathe in anyway.
WingedMonkey
10-22-2013, 10:53
Is it okay to bathe in a stream as long as you don't use soap etc. ?
What about rinsing clothes ?
Do what ever makes you happy.......as they keep saying "Hike Your Own Hike".
max patch
10-22-2013, 10:56
You can not be serious with the question. Got to be trying to light a fire here for some reason. But i will give it a go. you dont know others bathing habits or health status. lets say a hiker upstream from you has a bleeding hemorrhoid, hepatitis, herpes, and a sever case of leaking bowels from the medication his doctor gave to treat the triple threat he has to deal with. would you seriously want to drink the water that just rinsed his nethers? if you see no issue in that you must love bear grylls and his snake skin urine holder that doubles as reusable condom for the film crew. it is filthy, disgusting, rude, and a blatant disregard for the well being of others. so i ask you kindly, please do not do it.
Don't be shy tell us what you really think.
How does everyone feel about showers in the waterfalls instead!? ;)
lush242000
10-22-2013, 11:29
Is it okay to bathe in a stream as long as you don't use soap etc. ?
What about rinsing clothes ?
Yes. As stated above. It's called swimming.
Sent from somewhere.
If the water's fit for swimming, I will be swimming. If the water's fit for drinking, I will be drinking. I'll use either for bathing, away from the source, with my bucket, bandana, bladder, and barsoap. Cold swims and baths are the highlights of my days. If dangerously cold I'll heat 2 quarts of water in my handy dandy SnowPeak cooknsave 2 quart titanium pot and dump it in my bladder with cold water to fill. Nice, quick, warm showers are great when it is cold out there. Just dry off and get dressed fast. Just don't get no stanky skanky parts in peeps drinking water please.
somewhere, there is a very good article/post/response from sgt rock, as to how to keep clean on the trail. unfortunately i can't find it.
perhaps someone can remember how to dig it up, so to speak
On a side note, there is a lot more water out there than sources noted in the data/guide books. If you are willing to drop down off most any saddle you will eventually find some. Don't tell any body, but these can make great camping spots when you want the whole place to yourself, and no one will see your winky dink when you bathe. Course, if you are heading to town to spend your money every 2/3 days why bother?
FarmerChef
10-22-2013, 11:57
Course, if you are heading to town to spend your money every 2/3 days why bother?
Exactly..........
Sailing_Faith
10-22-2013, 11:59
I know it is a controversial topic (what isn't?) but I love my Sea to Sunmmit folding bucket.
24585
It makes a quick bath easy, and I can fill it up at the spring and filter at will back at the shelter....
Well, i found a "lead" to the article, but it doesn't seem to go anywhere; www.whiteblaze.net/forum/article.php?p=118496&postcount=1
perhaps one of the IT / moderator folks can help you out.
T.S.Kobzol
10-22-2013, 12:45
Reference http://water.epa.gov/action/advisories/drinking/upload/2009_02_03_criteria_humanhealth_microbial_giardiaf s.pdf
Bumblebee Tuna
da fungo
10-22-2013, 14:26
Is this the link to Sgt Rock's article you're looking for?
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?14636-What-to-Carry-Part-4&highlight=118496
Hill Ape
10-22-2013, 14:41
part of me believes 1st Sgt Rock is a mythical figure. i've seen his posts for years in various forums, but always more as articles, not interactive posts. and far to rational for any 1st Sgt i ever knew. and the name!! jeez, people would kill for a name like that in the service
If you got to bath on the trail use your Water Bladder, Fill the water bladder, use a piece of your food bag rope, hang the bladder up-side down use the mouth piece like a shower head, the bladder should hold enough water for one good bird bath, this way you can take the bath far away from any water sources, and this is also good to rinse your clothes.
My guess is that even Snifur has enjoyed the bliss of soaking his stinky swollen feet in the cool of a mountain stream once or twice.
Like with most things details matter-- as do the assumptions each of us makes when responding to these kinds of questions.
That said, there is nothing inherently wrong with washing up (rinsing off would be a better word) in a mountain stream. Just be mindfull with your soap(don't contaminate the water with even a little bit), and the leeches.
squeezebox
10-22-2013, 17:54
Thanks for your input . I'll dip and dunk some distance away from the stream.
Bryce
MuddyWaters
10-22-2013, 20:41
Most people pee in a pool.
Same applies to lakes.
Of course, pee is sterile, thats not where contamination comes from.
Urine is only sterile within the bladder ( and then only if you don't have a bladder or urinary tract infection) . Urine is sterile until it reaches the urethra, where epithelial cells lining the urethra are colonized by facultatively anaerobic Gram negative rods and cocci.
Bear Grylls is no rocket scientist nor is he a urologist!
Wise Old Owl
10-23-2013, 21:34
Lye, or sodium hydroxide, does occur naturally after a large forest fire.
Wood ash is extremely alkaline, and the usual "natural" source for lye-water used in soap making. American pioneers used water dripped through a trough of wood ash, which was then sufficiently alkaline to make soap when mixed with fat.
Please remember lye and lye-water can blind. The phrase "wouldn't touch it with a 10-foot pole" came from soap-making days, when the lye-containing pot was stirred with a very long "10-foot" pole.
Before your time they got it from the ashes of hard wood . They would dissolve the ashes in water and strain them to remove the pieces . To Concentrate it they would boil it . They measured the strength with a feather dipped into the liquid wait a minute and pull the feather through the fingers . If it were strong all the feather parts would pull foo the shaft. Soap has been made with some form of lye for thousands of years and can be traced back as far as 2800 BC. Lye soap (there REALLY is no other kind)is not harmful to your skin IF the soap is properly made. If too much lye is used for the fat content, it may retain some of they lye's caustic properties. Some soapmakers (homemade soap, not commercial) will "super fat" their mixture to avoid any chance that the lye's caustic properties were not neutralized. If you worry about the "chemical" use of lye in your soap, don't be. Without lye, there is no soap. Water, Lye and Fat are the ingredients in any soap.
Recommended Soaps
CleanWell
LUSH
Nature’s Gate
Vermont Country
Naked Soap Works
MiEssence
Purell Instant Hand Sanitizer
Ivory
Paul‚ Organic
Dr. Bronner‚ Magic Soaps
Tom‚ of Maine
The Natural Dentist
Listerine Essential Care
Peelu
Weleda
Urine is only sterile within the bladder ( and then only if you don't have a bladder or urinary tract infection) . Urine is sterile until it reaches the urethra, where epithelial cells lining the urethra are colonized by facultatively anaerobic Gram negative rods and cocci.
Bear Grylls is no rocket scientist nor is he a urologist!
Might this be why oral sex is illegal in Mississippi?
Train Wreck
10-23-2013, 21:39
part of me believes 1st Sgt Rock is a mythical figure. i've seen his posts for years in various forums, but always more as articles, not interactive posts. and far to rational for any 1st Sgt i ever knew. and the name!! jeez, people would kill for a name like that in the service
I don't believe in Sgt. Rock. He's a made-up figure like Santa.
Blissful
10-23-2013, 21:47
Please bathe away from water sources. :)
Please bathe away from water sources. :)
Agreed. You should bathe in a steam that is not a source of water. Or at least a very unlikely one-- which is to say most every one, if you use common sense.
Wise Old Owl
10-23-2013, 22:15
Please bathe away from water sources. :)
As much as you would like that kind of thinking... Please allow me to share something with you... almost all the small streams locally here in Penn are polluted with a wide variety of metals, Asbestos, and other bacteria, pathogens, and other nasties... take a peek at the Brandywine and fish are pretty much taboo - including Valley Forge park.. For years I played in the Brandywine... Kayak,canoe,swim, and bathed... Oh later I found out its Wilmington's drinking water... and yet - Luken's steel has been dumping and has pits in Coatesville for all sorts of chemicals... in short - its too late... nothing can undo the damage. One only has to look at a fishing maps and its all there. I am not arguing - I am sharing... You cannot tell if there is a dead deer upstream or a moose. So folks according to American Indian beliefs you all stink like chicken. Go bathe down stream... please use ivory as it floats. Its actually safer than your chlorinated pools filled with fecal matter. Chlorinated Pools are petri dishes...
Here is another example... DDT has a shelf life up to 40 years what was sprayed in 1970 is still found in small levels at the CDC in food grown in farms and is not reported,,,, DDT still is considered a link to diabetes and is still in our food supply. I would suspect DDT is in organic food as well.
Hey I am a looker upper I admit it... I love to fish... found all this out the hard way.
Bathing is optional. Being fashionable is not.
Wise Old Owl
10-23-2013, 23:40
Wasn't as relevant as I thought - removed
Isn't that why we use filtration or water purifier tabs? I run under the assumption that any water I drink, if not directly taken from the top could be fouled. To me its kind of like a biker telling car drivers to look twice. Nice if they do it, but if was a biker, I wouldn't count on it. I figure if I've survived almost 50 years of worse nastiness in my daily life, I will make it thru a stream that someone took a dip in.
Sent from my Galaxy Note 2 using Tapatalk 2
T.S.Kobzol
10-24-2013, 10:31
assume all water is contaminated.
on the other hand, contaminated water is not necessarily a horrible thing. It happens. It all depends on what's in it and how it affects you. Regular germs are OK and actually developing immunity to them is good for you.
hikerboy57
10-24-2013, 10:32
fish crap n it all the time. frogs,too.
illabelle
10-24-2013, 13:25
Lye, or sodium hydroxide, does occur naturally after a large forest fire.
Wood ash is extremely alkaline, and the usual "natural" source for lye-water used in soap making. American pioneers used water dripped through a trough of wood ash, which was then sufficiently alkaline to make soap when mixed with fat.
Please remember lye and lye-water can blind. The phrase "wouldn't touch it with a 10-foot pole" came from soap-making days, when the lye-containing pot was stirred with a very long "10-foot" pole.
Before your time they got it from the ashes of hard wood . They would dissolve the ashes in water and strain them to remove the pieces....
Funny, the things that trigger memories. I just had a moment or two of nostalgia remembering my mother making some lye soap. I remember the aluminum pan where the finished product hardened up and was cut into pieces. Seems like a hundred years ago. Was more like 40. Lots of stuff she did the "old" way.
FarmerChef
10-24-2013, 15:05
Funny, the things that trigger memories. I just had a moment or two of nostalgia remembering my mother making some lye soap. I remember the aluminum pan where the finished product hardened up and was cut into pieces. Seems like a hundred years ago. Was more like 40. Lots of stuff she did the "old" way.
I'm making some lye soap next weekend from the lard we rendered. If it wasn't so dang cheap, I'd spring for a wooden barrel and make it myself with all the ash from our wood stove. But those barrels are expensive :eek:
Hill Ape
10-24-2013, 15:12
fish crap n it all the time. frogs,too.
feel free to fill your bladder from my toilet, i crap there regularly
hikerboy57
10-24-2013, 15:13
fish crap n it all the time. frogs,too.
feel free to fill your bladder from my toilet, i crap there regularlyI have a Sawyer
Hill Ape
10-24-2013, 15:17
I have a Sawyer
i have a kohler
imscotty
10-24-2013, 16:55
This discussion reminds me of the rafting trip I took through the Grand Canyon. There were two buckets for everyone to use for their toilet. Solid waste went in one bucket and it was all packed out on the cargo raft. Liquid waste went in the 'Pee bucket' and in the morning was dumped in the river usually near the same spot were we got our cooking water and such. Such is the circle of life.
Only a pig would 'bath' in his drinking water but slightly downstream if it is deep enough and without soap, that is just swimming in my book.
CarlZ993
10-24-2013, 17:43
I take this pack bowl on all my hikes. It weighs 1.2 oz. Fill it up w/ water and take a sponge bath away from the water source & camp. Usually don't use soap unless I'm smelling really funky. The system works pretty good.
http://www.backpackerspantry.com/products/pack-bowl-4-pack.html
squeezebox
10-24-2013, 19:59
thinking of bringing the bottom few inches of a 1/2 gal milk jug. sponge baths, washing dishes etc, seems like bringing too much crap though.
I have a Sawyer
I am a sawyer. I'll saw yer farwood for fee.
thinking of bringing the bottom few inches of a 1/2 gal milk jug. sponge baths, washing dishes etc, seems like bringing too much crap though.
All you need is Sea to Summit bucket and a bladder. Very light and easy compared to multiple tramps into town. Not to mention the expense. Okay I mentioned it.
This discussion reminds me of the rafting trip I took through the Grand Canyon. There were two buckets for everyone to use for their toilet. Solid waste went in one bucket and it was all packed out on the cargo raft. Liquid waste went in the 'Pee bucket' and in the morning was dumped in the river usually near the same spot were we got our cooking water and such. Such is the circle of life.
Only a pig would 'bath' in his drinking water but slightly downstream if it is deep enough and without soap, that is just swimming in my book.
Sorry Scotty...Seems someones post is swimmin in circles.
Odd Man Out
10-24-2013, 22:35
I never figured out "biodegradable soap". Isn't all soap biodegradable. But I agree it shouldn't be used in lakes or streams.
Another Kevin
10-25-2013, 00:20
I never figured out "biodegradable soap". Isn't all soap biodegradable. But I agree it shouldn't be used in lakes or streams.
All soap is, pretty much. But a lot of soaps have detergents added, some of which are not.
Odd Man Out
10-25-2013, 10:09
All soap is, pretty much. But a lot of soaps have detergents added, some of which are not.
But if it's got detergent, it isn't really soap. I guess I should know that "truth in advertising" never applies in the cosmetic aisle.
WILLIAM HAYES
10-25-2013, 19:52
I carry an extra nalgene bottle cap that i have drilled holes in -makes an easy one handed shower sometimes if its chilly I heat the water I always bath away from a water source
squeezebox
10-25-2013, 19:58
So what's the difference between soap and detergent? Always wondered.
To quote W.C. Fields "I never drink water because of the disgusting things that fish do in it."
Hikes in Rain
10-26-2013, 09:34
So what's the difference between soap and detergent? Always wondered.
Soap is a salt (honestly!) formed by mixing a fatty acid with a base, such as lye (sodium hydroxide). It's a long chain molecule that's soluble in oils on one end, and water on the other. That's how it cleans.
Detergent, on the other hand, isa surfactant (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surfactant) or a mixture of surfactants with "cleaning properties in dilute solutions." (I had to google that; the soap I remembered:)) It reduces the surface tension of water (the property that lets you float a needle, and lets bugs walk on water) Basically, that makes water "wetter", more soluble in hard water.
From a practical point of view, such as using them to clean stuff, there isn't much difference.
Bathing in a stream and not using soap is called "swimming." When there's enough water that you won't noticeably foul it by your very presence, swimming is usually considered acceptable behaviour.
On trips longer than an overnighter, I ordinarily bring a collapsible bucket. One of its purposes is holding washwater. Which gets disposed of well away from a trail or water source, either in a cathole or widely dispersed depending on the terrain and the preference of the land manager.
+1
I like the collapsible bucket made by Sea to Summit
Unless the stream has a really copious flow, I would generally use water from the stream in my bucket even if not using any soap
geomaniac
10-27-2013, 11:14
I know it is a controversial topic (what isn't?) but I love my Sea to Sunmmit folding bucket.
24585
It makes a quick bath easy, and I can fill it up at the spring and filter at will back at the shelter....
And I love my pocket shower. It doubles as a bucket and or a water proof stuff sack.http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Sea-to-Summit-Pocket-Shower-/00/s/MTYwMFgxMzg2/z/QH8AAMXQhpdRww-z/$T2eC16d,%21%298E9s4l8h6bBRww-yrP-Q%7E%7E60_57.JPG
swjohnsey
10-27-2013, 21:41
Bathing is over-rated. Most soap ain't soap at all, but detergent. Ivory is soap.
squeezebox
10-27-2013, 22:06
I sleep better if I'm clean.
MuddyWaters
10-27-2013, 23:13
Im fine with a shower every 8-10 days. I see no reason to do any bathing on the AT.
It best if you remain a stinky human, and dont smell of foreign smells like soaps or anything a bear might be curious about anyway.
Out west, where its extremely dusty, dry, and dirty, washing down and rinsing clothing out is more necessary. Not so much on the AT. A quick wipe with a damp bandana now and then to clean the face up does the job.
Odd Man Out
10-27-2013, 23:45
So what's the difference between soap and detergent? Always wondered.
Soap is made from animal fat or vegetable oil. These are glycerol molecules attached to three fatty acids. When you take this molecule apart in alkaline conditions, the fatty acids exists in their base form and make the soap when it forms a salt - like sodium chloride, but in this case the sodium is paired with the base form of the fatty acid instead of a chloride. This is why natural soap is biodegradable. It is chemically not really different than the food you eat. One problem with soap is that in the presence of ions that have a charge of +2 (calcium and magnesium, for example), instead of +1 (sodium, potassium), the salt does not dissolve in water and comes out of solution, forming what is commonly called soap scum. We call water with these +2 ions "hard water". Washing with soap in hard water is not very effective because the soap won't dissolve. Water softeners remove the +2 ions and replace them with +1 ions (this is why you add salt pellets to recharge your water softener).
Detergents are essentially artificial soap. The overall structure of the molecule is similar - a long carbon chain with a negative charge at the end. This is why they both function as cleaning surfactants. But the artificial structure makes it less biodegradable. The advantage of detergents is that they can be formulated to be more soluble in hard water.