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View Full Version : Who has right of way? uphill hiker or trail runner?



Shutterbug
10-22-2013, 19:17
I have been taught that when meeting another hiker on a trail who is going the opposite direction, the one going uphill has the right of way. Those rules were made before trail running became so popular. Last week, my wife and I did a rim to rim to rim hike in the Grand Canyon. At least 30% of the hikers we met on the trail were doing rim to rim to rim in one day runs. When possible, we stepped off the trail to let the runners pass, but several times under the traditional rules we should have had the right of way. Who has the right of way, the hiker going up hill or the trail runner?

max patch
10-22-2013, 19:23
trail runner.

Coffee
10-22-2013, 19:26
Don't even get me started on this. I backpacked the Grand Canyon rim-to-rim this year and many trail runners behaved as if they own the trail. Keep in mind that I'm also a runner. I can relate to what these guys are doing. I actually would love to run the canyon myself someday. So I have nothing against trail running but basic courtesy doesn't go out the window just because someone chooses to run rather than walk.

Sly
10-22-2013, 19:32
While it may be proper etiquette for the downhill hiker to yield to the uphill hiker, I always thought downhill momentum made it easier for the uphill hiker to yield.

That said, regardless of uphill/downhill, if both hiker and runner are traveling the same direction, it's logical for the hiker to yield to faster runners. Therefore, it's probably makes most sense for hikers to yield to runners coming from the opposite direction.

P.S. If my secord rule applies, perhaps it makes more sense to yield to runners and hikers alike coming downhill. (my original thought)

Teacher & Snacktime
10-22-2013, 19:33
If the rules of the trail are anything like the rules of the road, then no one HAS right of way.....you can only YIELD it.

modiyooch
10-22-2013, 20:20
I'm a runner, and I tend to stop for those coming up hill; unless they stop first.

max patch
10-22-2013, 20:25
The "outdoorsman" always has the right of way, regardless of direction of travel.

Sarcasm the elf
10-22-2013, 20:29
There is no rule, as a matter of fact, I usually hike in order to stop thinking about constantly following rules. :rolleyes: I tend to yield to anyone that is hiking faster than me, or any time I can easily step off the trail, but that's just because I'm usually a nice guy.

The exception is the rare case when the person is acting like a jerk or like they own the place (large groups of inconsiderate tourists fall into is category), then I obstruct.

aficion
10-22-2013, 20:32
The "outdoorsman" always has the right of way, regardless of direction of travel.

Personally I believe whoever is sporting the most merit badges should yield since they are clearly superior.

MuddyWaters
10-22-2013, 20:38
Its harder for the uphill hiker to get going again, is theoretically why they should have right of way.
Usually, both stop and exchange pleasantries though for a minute or two.

No need to yield to a runner just because they are running. The fact that they are choosing to run is their problem, no one owes them the right to step aside. They shouldnt expect it either.

In any case, its harder for the uphill person to get re-started, so I think the same courtesy would still apply, pack or no pack.

Hill Ape
10-22-2013, 20:39
the hiker with a sidearm, and a vicious dog, always gets the right of way

GeoRed
10-22-2013, 20:46
I tend to gladly step off when I'm going uphill. I get a nice few second breather and the person who has more momentum (downhill hiker) gets to keep moving. It takes more energy for them to stop than the uphill hiker. I take this into consideration for runners and hikers alike. If I'm going downhill and a runner is coming at me, I take the grade into consideration. If it's steep, I keep going. If it's mild, I'll gladly step off for they can get by unhindered.

max patch
10-22-2013, 20:47
While it may be proper etiquette for the downhill hiker to yield to the uphill hiker, I always thought downhill momentum made it easier for the uphill hiker to yield.

That said, regardless of uphill/downhill, if both hiker and runner are traveling the same direction, it's logical for the hiker to yield to faster runners. Therefore, it's probably makes most sense for hikers to yield to runners coming from the opposite direction.

P.S. If my secord rule applies, perhaps it makes more sense to yield to runners and hikers alike coming downhill. (my original thought)

To get serious for a moment, everything in this post is spot on.

aficion
10-22-2013, 20:51
To get serious for a moment, everything in this post is spot on.

If we are going to be serious, for a moment, I step off immediately upon perceiving this might be helpful to someone. If it requires more thought than that, you are on the wrong track.

Malto
10-22-2013, 20:52
As a hiker and a trail runner I would yield to a runner much faster than a hiker because it is less of an issue to break pace for hikers vs runners. (I consider myself more of a hiker than runner.)

max patch
10-22-2013, 20:57
Personally I believe whoever is sporting the most merit badges should yield since they are clearly superior.

I respectfully submit that whoever has the most man patches wins.

http://www.manpatch.org/Man_Patch/M.O.T.W._Patches_files/shapeimage_1.png

http://www.manpatch.org/Man_Patch/Home.html

lush242000
10-22-2013, 20:57
Slower traffic should always yield to faster.


Sent from somewhere.

Studlintsean
10-22-2013, 22:05
It's just like the real world (drivers). Some people yield and some people don't. More than likely long before the yielding is necessary someone is showing signs of giving the other the right of way. If its a family or group and I'm a single ill normally let them pass (up or down)

MkBibble
10-22-2013, 22:05
Thru-hikers rule! Haven't you been paying attention? Seriously though, I was taught the same as you, yield to the uphill hiker. That being said, I usually step off the trail no matter which way I'm going... I am in NO hurry to get back to work!

Just Bill
10-22-2013, 23:00
The correct answer has been provided.

hikerboy57
10-22-2013, 23:02
I respectfully submit that whoever has the most man patches wins.

http://www.manpatch.org/Man_Patch/M.O.T.W._Patches_files/shapeimage_1.png



http://www.manpatch.org/Man_Patch/Home.html
i had forgotten about those

CarlZ993
10-22-2013, 23:16
Uphill hiker has right of way to downhill hiker(runner). Often times, however, the uphill hiker will use the downhill hiker as an excuse to rest.

Starchild
10-23-2013, 00:48
Yielding to a trail runner is a courtesy that is sometimes extended, but there is no obligation other then wishing them a speedy journey.

Dogwood
10-23-2013, 02:27
It would depend on if the trail runner was a cute female I have the potential to meet at the N. Rim Lodge's bar and if she enjoys foot massages.

Dogwood
10-23-2013, 02:35
Uphill hiker has right of way to downhill hiker(runner). Often times, however, the uphill hiker will use the downhill hiker as an excuse to rest.

This tends to be trail etiquette which I break on occasion like when on steep narrow rocky eroded trail, I'm the one going uphill, and I really really really don't want a hiker/almost climber potentially falling on me. I'll allow the STEEEEP down hiller down first and safely get out of the way before I start going up.

Hill Ape
10-23-2013, 05:12
i usually yield to anyone, regardless of direction, speed, or angle of ascent/descent. unless they seem to have a get out of my way attitude, then i just stop in the middle of the trail and take my sweet time consulting a compass looking around with a dumbfounded look on my face

i figure most people don't know the etiquette, and i've had a few people step of the downhill side of the trail and take a tumble. i always silently assume others are doing it wrong, and i try to help them out without calling them out

tdoczi
10-23-2013, 07:00
If the rules of the trail are anything like the rules of the road, then no one HAS right of way.....you can only YIELD it.

wow, I hope I never have to drive anywhere near where youre driving. people most definitely HAVE the right of way on the road, that si why you are able to yield it.

modiyooch
10-23-2013, 07:21
potentially falling on me. I'll allow the STEEEEP down hiller down first and safely get out of the way before I start going up.This is the main reason as a runner that I do stop, even though I don't like breaking. I'm afraid that I will stumble into someone.

Pedaling Fool
10-23-2013, 08:00
There is no etiquette in nature. In the natural world Might is Right.


With all the Outdoorsman here I'm not sure why this is even a question.

Traffic Jam
10-23-2013, 08:12
If they stop first, I go...if I stop first, they go. Easy peasy.

AAhiker
10-23-2013, 08:29
As a trail runner and a hiker I generally yield to anyone going faster than me because that is what I would want someone to do for me. We all know how annoying it is when your held up by someone else no matter what your mode of travel. But practially speaking, when coming from opposing directions, it should be whoever comes to a pull off spot first.

Odd Man Out
10-23-2013, 10:04
The was a long and often heated discussion of this topic a few months ago (started June 18) on the Grand Canyon Hikers Group on Yahoo Groups. This is a private group so I'm not sure if everyone can read it. If not and you are really interested, you could join the group.

http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/grand_canyon_hikers/conversations/topics/73267

Shutterbug
10-23-2013, 11:50
It really isn't an earth shattering question, but to me it is kind of like the rules about driving on the right side of the road. One side is as good as the other if everyone else goes by the same rule. If you drive on the right side in Australia, you will have a problem. When it comes to hiking, it doesn't make a lot of difference who gives way, but it is helpful to know what other hikers (and runners) expect. Based on the answers here, it seems that there is no common understanding about whether or not hikers should give way to runners.

Coffee
10-23-2013, 11:54
Based on the answers here, it seems that there is no common understanding about whether or not hikers should give way to runners.

I have found that perhaps somewhat over 50% of backpackers follow the "yield to uphill hiker" policy but the number of day hikers following that policy is far lower. Even lower for trail runners. To me it just makes good sense. Usually the downhill hiker is not working as hard and can often see the uphill hiker before being seen. It makes good sense to allow someone working hard with momentum to have the right of way. Now, many times the uphill hiker will yield to take a rest which is fine. I just think the uphill hiker should be able to make that choice. I always yield to the uphill hiker.

max patch
10-23-2013, 11:54
Based on the answers here, it seems that there is no common understanding about whether or not hikers should give way to runners.

Honestly, the only place this seems to be an issue is on internet forums. I've never noticed anyone following this rule on the trail IRL. To me, common courtesy would call for the hiker to pull over as it is much easier for us to stop and start than for a runner to stop and start.

Coffee
10-23-2013, 11:57
Honestly, the only place this seems to be an issue is on internet forums. I've never noticed anyone following this rule on the trail IRL. To me, common courtesy would call for the hiker to pull over as it is much easier for us to stop and start than for a runner to stop and start.

Try the Grand Canyon corridor trails almost anytime to see the conflicts in action. Granted, the Grand Canyon is unusual in terms of the sheer number of trail runners. I have never seen anywhere near as many trail runners anywhere else. The attraction of running from rim to rim in one day (and sometimes rim-to-rim-to-rim) is obviously very strong.

jeffmeh
10-23-2013, 12:03
It depends on the situation. For example, if I get to a really steep section of trail and someone is coming down it and concentrating on navigating it safely, it would be very rude and potentially hazardous for me to start up and try to get by him.

If the trail is wide and gentle enough that neither one of us needs to yield, that is fine.

If that is not the case, and when I see the other hiker the trail where I am has a safe place to step aside, I will yield. If I do not have such a safe place, and he does, I keep moving and expect him to yield.

If I feel like taking a break I will yield anyway.

I get more annoyed when I catch up to someone going in the same direction who refuses to let me pass, but normally a polite "Mind if I play through" will solve that. I offer the same courtesy to anyone who catches up with me. On a holiday weekend on a trail that is "bumper to bumper," I won't bother, but I tend to avoid that situation in the first place.

Odd Man Out
10-23-2013, 12:15
Try the Grand Canyon corridor trails almost anytime to see the conflicts in action. Granted, the Grand Canyon is unusual in terms of the sheer number of trail runners. I have never seen anywhere near as many trail runners anywhere else. The attraction of running from rim to rim in one day (and sometimes rim-to-rim-to-rim) is obviously very strong.

Agreed. It is similar to the conflicts inherent with mixed-use trails. If you have some combination of bicyclists, ORVs, pack animals, equestrians, runners, and hikers using the same trail, problems will arise when the different populations of users have different needs and traditions that are not always know to the other groups. For example, this page from the American Trail Running Association states that "Uphill runners yield to downhill runners in most situations" whereas hikers seem to have the opposite tradition.

http://www.trailrunner.com/news/trail_etiquette.htm

Dogwood
10-23-2013, 12:30
There is no etiquette in nature. In the natural world Might is Right.


With all the Outdoorsman here I'm not sure why this is even a question.

You might want to look at it as some people simply choose to be considerate, courteous, and nice. They seek cooperation rather than domination. It happens in Nature to IF you look for it. Although one aspect of Nature is survival of the fittest it's not all about that! I think that is mostly missed though. Read Darwin and Dawkins and you see they also spoke about this.

Studlintsean
10-23-2013, 12:33
You might want to look at it as some people simply choose to be considerate, courteous, and nice. They seek cooperation rather than domination. It happens in Nature to IF you look for it. Although one aspect of Nature is survival of the fittest it's not all about that! I think that is mostly missed though. Read Darwin and Dawkins and you see they also spoke about this.

Thats exactly what I was getting at in my post above. Some people choose to be considerate and others dont. While this isnt always the case, 95% of the time this will hold true hiking, running, driving, whatever you want to apply it to.

RED-DOG
10-23-2013, 12:35
When i am hiking i generally will let the faster hiker/runner pass weather i am going up hill or not.

Pedaling Fool
10-23-2013, 15:28
You might want to look at it as some people simply choose to be considerate, courteous, and nice. They seek cooperation rather than domination. It happens in Nature to IF you look for it. Although one aspect of Nature is survival of the fittest it's not all about that! I think that is mostly missed though. Read Darwin and Dawkins and you see they also spoke about this.I didn't use smilies because I thought it was obvious my post was somewhat tongue-in-cheek. We had this discussion on that other thread, not sure why you decided to repond to my last post on that thread on this thread:confused:

But as far as considerate acts in nature, those acts are done not for the sake of being considerate, rather because it's in the interest of the animal. Anyone that sees acts in nature as purely considerate isn't looking at the big picture and they are the same people that think dolphins are smiling.:rolleyes:


If you have a response post it on that other thread, because I won't respond again on this thread.

Lone Wolf
10-23-2013, 15:34
i never stop. i just go off the trail

Hot Flash
10-23-2013, 16:12
The exception is the rare case when the person is acting like a jerk or like they own the place (large groups of inconsiderate tourists fall into is category), then I obstruct.

So you decide to join them in being a jerk. Yeah, that's mature. :rolleyes:

xokie
10-23-2013, 17:09
Being an old fart always in need of a little rest, I yield to anyone going any way. (unless they have a bike or motorized thing and then I just stand there with a hand in my pocket until they move.)

Don H
10-23-2013, 17:27
The downhill yields to the uphill hiker.
WE HAVE RULES!!!!
http://www.americanhiking.org/hiking-etiquette/

lemon b
10-23-2013, 18:09
Hiking and hurrying are not something I do together except if I feel Like hurrying it up is gonna keep me dry. Whenever, someones pace is greater than I and I see them, I set aside or just move over. Common sense and common manners.

Sly
10-23-2013, 19:13
It makes good sense to allow someone working hard with momentum to have the right of way. Now, many times the uphill hiker will yield to take a rest which is fine. I just think the uphill hiker should be able to make that choice. I always yield to the uphill hiker.


Honestly, the only place this seems to be an issue is on internet forums. I've never noticed anyone following this rule on the trail IRL. To me, common courtesy would call for the hiker to pull over as it is much easier for us to stop and start than for a runner to stop and start.

Again, I'll agree with Max. It's the downhill hiker (or runner) with momentum, and so mush easier for the uphill hiker (or runner for that matter) to pull off.

Don H
10-24-2013, 08:38
The American Hiking Society and BSA teach downhill hikers yield to up hill hikers.

The American Trail Running Association says uphill runners should yield to downhill runners.

hikerboy57
10-24-2013, 08:40
The American Hiking Society and BSA teach downhill hikers yield to up hill hikers.

The American Trail Running Association says uphill runners should yield to downhill runners. well there you have it finally case closed

Rasty
10-24-2013, 08:42
The American Hiking Society and BSA teach downhill hikers yield to up hill hikers.

The American Trail Running Association says uphill runners should yield to downhill runners.

The American Cancer society concurs.

hikerboy57
10-24-2013, 08:44
When in doubt yield

Sarcasm the elf
10-24-2013, 09:31
So you decide to join them in being a jerk. Yeah, that's mature. :rolleyes:

Don't you ever accuse me of being mature! :p

Rasty
10-24-2013, 09:35
Don't you ever accuse me of being mature! :p

I'm much less mature then you.

gollwoods
10-25-2013, 16:21
running downhill makes it harder to stop so if possible I'd step aside rather than force a runner to try to stop, especially on a steep or rocky trail. it's what i'd hope someone would do for me.

rocketsocks
10-26-2013, 05:07
Don't you ever accuse me of being mature! :p


I'm much less mature then you.


got ya both beat, I always have the right of way :p

russb
10-26-2013, 06:17
I recall the North goes Zax and the South going Zax remained at an impasse.24628

RockDoc
10-26-2013, 20:14
The old rule about yielding to the uphill person comes straight from automobile rules in the mountains, where you yield to the vehicle going uphill. This is because if a large truck stops on a steep narrow uphill grade it may not get started again, and may block the road, or create a dangerous condition while backing up (since it can't continue uphill). This rule was pretty important, say, in 1940.

That situation doesn't happen much with people on trails.

I'm with Sly; yield to the downhill hiker or runner, and enjoy a brief rest on your uphill climb.

StubbleJumper
10-26-2013, 21:40
I always yield to the uphill hiker. There's no trouble at all to re-establish your rhythm when you are going downhill.

Deacon
04-25-2014, 08:11
In many cases, it's not who's going up or downhill, it's who has room to pull off to the side.

Near the top of Mt Mansfield on the LT, I stepped to the side of the trail to let someone get by, and I fell backward and was hanging off a cliff with my legs hooked over the edge. The passing hiker helped me back up. Whew!

slbirdnerd
04-25-2014, 08:55
I also yield to anyone hiking faster than me, and the uphill hiker. It's just nice. I will also politely to pass if I happen to be the faster hiker. Did almost get run over by a mountain bike approaching form behind once, though, that pissed me off a little bit.

I don't know about 'rules' but I know about etiquette--just be nice. I think most of us are on the trail.

FarmerChef
04-25-2014, 09:09
Uphill runner yields to downhill runner.
Uphill hiker yields to downhill runner.
Downhill hiker yields to uphill hiker or runner.

Hikers/Runners traveling in the same direction but passing politely announce intentions and politely pass when the trial permits.

I goofed on this one last week and told my kids to keep moving when we encountered a downhill runner. We had kept pulling off literally every 5 minutes due to heavy foot traffic and I forgot my rules of the trail as we were hustling to make our shuttle. My bad.

I will also say that in practice, though the rule is there much of the time the uphill hiker gladly steps off for a break as the downhills go by. But (and it's a big one), as thru's develop their trail legs and head further north/south it tends then to be more the weekend/day hiker crowd that acquiesces on the ascents. Either way, we ask first. My two cents.

fiddlehead
04-25-2014, 09:12
There is no rule, as a matter of fact, I usually hike in order to stop thinking about constantly following rules. :rolleyes: I tend to yield to anyone that is hiking faster than me, or any time I can easily step off the trail, but that's just because I'm usually a nice guy.

The exception is the rare case when the person is acting like a jerk or like they own the place (large groups of inconsiderate tourists fall into is category), then I obstruct.


Where is the "like button"

There are no rules.

Another reason why I stay away from the crowded trails and enjoy hiking the ones where, if you see someone on the trail, you normally stop to ask about water seeps or windmills working, or something important.

Too many rules already.

rafe
04-25-2014, 09:15
In many cases, it's not who's going up or downhill, it's who has room to pull off to the side.

Near the top of Mt Mansfield on the LT, I stepped to the side of the trail to let someone get by, and I fell backward and was hanging off a cliff with my legs hooked over the edge. The passing hiker helped me back up. Whew!

There are spots near the top of Mansfield that are supremely treacherous and gnarly. On the north side and on the south. Spots where really only one hiker may pass at a time. LT has some real edge to it, in places. (A spot I recall on the lower north slopes of Camel's Hump as well.) Places where a slip or a fall could be injurious or fatal.

With regard to the subject of the thread, I habitually pull to the side when I'm being passed, or when oncoming hikers approach. I'm not in that much of a hurry. I'm a slow hiker, so I'm almost always the one being passed. My lot in life, I'm ok with it.

Slo-go'en
04-25-2014, 10:27
I yield to down hill, as I need to catch my breath and they have momentum. But often we both stop and chat for a minute.

Odd Man Out
04-25-2014, 12:43
Since trail runners and hikers have opposite traditions, this is how I interpret the situation:

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?101495-Unwritten-Rules-of-Backpacking&p=1847007&viewfull=1#post1847007

Mags
04-25-2014, 14:15
since trail runners and hikers have opposite traditions, this is how i interpret the situation:

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?101495-unwritten-rules-of-backpacking&p=1847007&viewfull=1#post1847007

perfect!!! :)

Feral Bill
04-25-2014, 15:15
In every overtaking situation I know,(autos, boats, planes), the overtaking party yields right of way.

foodbag
04-25-2014, 15:23
I think I would yield to the runner coming down the hill, since it would be easier for me to stop, plus I wouldn't want to get bowled over!

Sarcasm the elf
04-25-2014, 15:30
A wise man once said: "It's just walking..."

Drybones
04-25-2014, 21:26
A wise man once said: "It's just walking..."

That was no wise man, wise men wear turbans, that was Lone Wolf, and he wears a ball cap (just guessing).

MuddyWaters
04-25-2014, 21:49
No rules, regardless of what you might read somewhere.
If someone needs to pass you, step aside.
If someone approaches from the opposite direction, pause and greet them, dont be an ahole.
A runner might not want to stop, but they will still say good morning.