View Full Version : Windshirt in the total clothing system?
Another Kevin
10-23-2013, 15:44
I've seen a lot of discussion on the merits and demerits of specific articles of clothing here, and I've found a lot of the discussion unenlightening. My experience is that you can't discuss any garment in isolation, but only in terms of how it works in an entire system.
I'm posting this both to share my thinking about what's in my gear closet, and to ask the opinions of others in terms of assembling the clothing choices for a given elevation and season. I certainly have combinations that work, but I suspect that some of the more experienced people here can point out where I can be more efficient. Also, I recently made the impulse buy of a lightweight windshirt, and I'm trying to see how people work that into the whole system. (I know some people here swear by them!)
So, what's in the closet in the way of clothing that I'd take outdoors? (Of course, none of this comes on every trip.) Note that when I say 'extreme weather' or 'deep winter,' it means stuff that the A-T in the South virtually never gets: I do occasional winter trips in upstate New York.
Technical fibre compression shorts. These are the foundation of everything. The only way I'd not be wearing these is in deep winter, when I expect to spend the entire trip in:
Technical fibre baselayer bottoms. Lightweight or midweight. The heavyweight ones are too heavy to hike in. If I need something heavier to sleep in, because I'm pushing my sleeping bag's temperature rating, I might carry:
Fleece lounge pants. Look sissy, but they're warm in the winter. Over top of any or all of these go:
Nylon shorts or nylon convertible pants. I know that a lot of the experienced people say that convertible pants are ridiculous, but I find that I often want pant legs.
Frogg Toggs rainpants. For when it's raining or I need more wind protection.
For this time of year, with the nights around freezing, I'm likely to bring the underwear shorts, the baselayer bottoms, and the convertible pants. The fleece starts coming along when the nighttime temperatures are starting to get into the teens or single digits.
On the upper body, I have more choices to pick and choose among, and this is where I dither the most about what to bring.
Technical fibre T-shirt. This comes along, except in deep winter, when I'll not be taking off my:
Technical fibre baselayer top. Lightweight or midweight. Any time I'm expecting chilly weather, or not expecting chilly weather for that matter, since the weather forecaster isn't always right.
Fleece top. Comes along sometimes.
Lightweight Hollofill puffy jacket. Two weeks ago, with temps down to about 40 F, I threw this on over my baselayer top in the evening and early morning, and took it off to hike.
Hardshell jacket. Windproof in a howling gale, waterproof, bombproof, and way too heavy.
Frogg Toggs rain jacket. For when I don't need a hardshell. I'm still trying to sort out when I think that is. Certainly the rainsuit just gets stuffed in my pack (with no hardshell) in the summer. For bushwhacks, though, I bring the hardshell instead of the Frogg Toggs, because the latter will turn to trail confetti the first time that I encounter a stand of spruce.
Orange vest. In hunting season.
DWR polyester wind shirt. A recent impulse buy. It's lightweight, and was cheap, since it's a no-name brand. But it looks worth a try.
Great big bulky puffy down jacket. For extreme weather only.
On my feet, it's
Sock liners. Cheap nylon or polyester dress socks, or thin polyester athletic socks.. Because I can't wear wool, even merino, right next to my skin.
Vapor barrier. Doubled bread bags. Deep winter only. Keeps the insulating layer dry even though the feet sweat.
Socks. Darn Tough or Wigwam merino socks. Always.
Boots. According to conditions. May be New Balance trail runners, or big clunky leather boots, or Sorel pac boots, depending on how much snow I expect.
Gaiters. Calf-length ones. My current pair are from Outdoor Research, but I've had other brands. I don't like wet socks, blackberry scratches and nettle stings. And I hate getting snow down my boots.
Traction gear as needed in the winter. Microspikes, crampons or snowshoes. I wear at least microspikes whenever there's ice and snow about.
On the hands it's
Cheap Thinsulate gloves. The cheapest pair available. I lose them before I wear them out.
Polyester glove liners. So that I can work a camera, light a stove or tie a bootlace in deep winter.
On the head it may be:
Tilley sun hat. Worn with a bug net in blackfly season.
Baseball cap. The default. Maybe with a bandana under it, either wrapped as a sweat band or flapping French Foreign Legion fashion to keep the sun off my neck and ears.
Fleece balaclava. Sleepwear in subfreezing weather, and may be worn about the neck on a windy day.
Carhartt touque. Whenever the weather demands, and for sleeping.
Neoprene facemask, Army surplus land ops goggles. For extreme weather.
So what do I actually choose out of this stuff to pack for a given trip?
(1) I bring shorts, T-shirt, and at least one baselayer. In anything but high summer, I always bring a dry baselayer to sleep in.
(2) I try always to have dry socks and liners to change into. Possibly a third pair if I really expect things to be wet.
(3) One pair of convertible pants does it, plus the fleece pants in cold weather., and the rainsuit.
(4) Hat, gloves and boots according to the season. The only reason for ever bringing more than one hat is that I sometimes wind up sleeping in both touque and balaclava.
And then there's the upper-body layers. T-shirt, baselayer, and then what? Last trip, the puffy jacket and rainsuit worked well, except that I wound up not needing the rainsuit. (The previous trip, things were lots warmer and wetter, and the puffy stayed in my backpack but the rainsuit got a workout.) I did OK with the fleece staying home.
As I said above, I got the wind shirt as an impulse buy, and now I'm trying to figure out where it fits into the system. Right now, the upper body possibilities seem to be:
T-shirt, baselayer top, fleece, rain jacket - The minimum that I'll carry, even in summer. Weather doesn't always go as forecast.
T-shirt, baselayer top, puffy, rain jacket - A nice shoulder season combination
Baselayer top, puffy, hardshell - A little colder
Baselayer top, fleece, puffy, hardshell - This is getting into more serious winter, where the baselayer top alone may not be warm enough even when moving. I may need the fleece because the puffy may still be too warm.
Baselayer top, fleece, bulky down, hardshell - Deep winter. Way too heavy. No good alterative. Life is hard.
But I'm having trouble figuring out what combinations actually would involve the windshirt. For the people who swear by windshirts, what do you layer them with? Are hooded ones required, or is there a place for a hoodless one? I'm fine with the windshirt purchase - it was dirt cheap and I can always wear it over a sweater in town. I'm just trying to figure out whether in my style it has a role on the trail.
jimmyjam
10-23-2013, 16:50
I'll wear my windshirt over my ss shirt in the mornings when it is cool, but only for about the first 10 or 15 minutes of hiking. I'll also wear it around camp over my ss shirt after the sun goes down. I've also worn it over my ls light weight base layer with a ss shirt over the ls one. And lastly I've added it over a synthetic vest over the ls + ss shirt on a cold spring night in camp. I like it, I think it's very versatile. It works well for me, but maybe for not others.
SCRUB HIKER
10-23-2013, 17:13
My layering system on the final days of the PCT this year in cold, wet weather in Washington was unconventional and included a windshirt (Patagonia Houdini, hooded) at almost all times:
- Base layer was a lightweight old Campmor fleece 1/4-zip sweater. Always stayed on.
- On top of that, when it was cold and damp but not actually raining very hard or at all, went the windshirt.
- On top of that went the full "waterproof" rain jacket when it was raining. I could take this on and off as often as I wanted with about 30 seconds of stop time.
- In the pack (kept dry) were a thermal top and a puffy down hooded coat for sleeping.
It worked really well because the windshirt caught all the dampness that made it through the jacket and kept it off the fleece. The fleece got a little damp from sweat, but my whole upper body stayed warm because the windshirt and raincoat combined to keep most of my body heat in. I could always change into dry clothes at the end of the day.
The windshirt also went on at other times over my normal hiking shirt for cool mornings. It packs down to the size of an apple so when I took it off I didn't even bother to put it inside the pack, just left it in a side pocket so I could put it back on on a chilly break in the shade or wind or something.
Here's me with my unusual double-jacket (windshirt plus raincoat) system at the border: 24598
A windshirt is usually the only layer I will wear over my base layer which is either a long or short sleeve cap 1 or equivalent while hiking. I can only think of two cases where I wore my lightweight down jacket while hiking and this is generally my only insulation layer. This will take me down to twenty degrees.
MuddyWaters
10-23-2013, 19:28
Too long, didnt read it all.
I will only say that a lot of popular "windshirts" actually have less breathability than some rainshells.
I'm right there with you AK: "My experience is that you can't discuss any garment in isolation, but only in terms of how it works in an entire system." I also go through much the same process in selecting apparel for a hike. I believe everything works together( I want it all to work together, I have to make all things work together) and NOT just what apparel I'm wearing. I give careful consideration to entire kit integration as a necessary part of taking UL philosophy to the next level. I believe doing this with apparel in a layering system is just a good pre-hike process consideration for all hiking styles though.
I mainly use windshirts on colder wetter hikes as outer or mid layer layering pieces. Some of why I used to chosoe a windshirt was based on prioritizing saving a few ozs compared to a true WP rain jacket on a side by side single piece wt comparison. When using windshirts in this fashion, as outer layering pieces, I did so on hikes where I might encounter just mist or on SUL weekend or day hikes when I was anticipating moving fast paced and doing high MPDs in fair to misty weather. As a mid layer I liked using them on really wet colder hikes for additional warmth protecting mainly from convective heat loss by keeping it between my next to skin synthetic base layer and a true WP jacket while having an additional layer like a synthetic vest(Thermawrap or something similar) to throw into the layering mix if the cold and a slower pace dictate). I didn't want a wet next to skin synthetic base layer. For example, if I was doing a PNT thru in cold weather(a typically very wet colder hike) I might throw in the windshirt as a mid layer under a UL WP shell and over a merino piece. I think ventilation and managing comfortable core temps would be critical for me in this situation. And, going with a torso layering system on a PNT cold wet thru like this would include merino beanie and possibly gloves/mittens w/ POSSIBLY a glove/mitten liner on the upper body. I'd be tweaking the upper body layering system as I was considering my lower half apparel as well. These days, after I've checked on a few things, like typical weather patterns, avg high/low temps, character of the trail(remoteness, tread, avg amt of sunlight, etc), noting anomalies such as significant elev changes and if I'm planning off trail excursions) I can gear up apparel and kit wise from my hiking gear arsenal in minutes where it use to take me many hrs of consideration.
I've largely gotten away from using my windshirts though - a Marmot Ion(complete zippered chest, version circa 2007) and GoLite Wisp(1/4 zip). Why? I haven't been doing so may cold very wet thru-hikes as of late and I employ high end UL down and merino pieces more, whenever I can, which has me thinking layering a bit differently. As well, I have true WP UL Rain Jackets now that are only about 2-3 ozs more than most of the lightest wt windshirts. These UL truly WP Rain Jackets may not have the breathability as the most breathable UL windshirts but they are a great compromise at little wt penalty functioning both as a rain jacket and windshirt(mostly in the outer layer configuration).
I mainly currently use my windshirts on runs not on hikes.
Sorry for the long analysis but I too wonder what role they currently play in my hiking style on the hikes that are typical for me in America.
Perhaps I can learn something more about how others employ windshirts here.
Too long, didnt read it all.
I will only say that a lot of popular "windshirts" actually have less breathability than some rainshells.
I've been noticing the same thing. It makes me say hmmm?
Leanthree
10-23-2013, 21:25
I use mine in two ways: 1)Great for summer weekend trips with a no rain weather forecast to replace my rain jacket for cooler nights and if there is a freak rain storm. 2) in colder weather: a)at camp from skin out: synthetic T, Synthetic long sleeve T, wind shirt, puff, rain jacket. 2.3 oz cuts down on moisture deflating the loft and it also gives slightly more warmth itself. b) over a t-shirt while hiking, especially on a windy day.
I don't bring it on every trip.
Oh yeah, use windshirts on fast and light fair but windy weather summit bids and for cycling in fairish weather.
hikerboy57
10-23-2013, 21:33
my rain jkt, a marmot mica, is also my wind shirt.my layering system is a columbia omni dry wicking t shirt, a midweight capilene, an ems polarguard microfleece pullover, an ems micropuff pullover. the marmot mica can be worn over, or layered under the micropuff. i also will bring down parka,pants, and booties for winter camp.the down stuff i didnt need this past march with temps down to the teens, the above layering kept me warm.that marmot mica is my most important piece. ive used it with just a t shirt as a windbreaker, or layered under or over as described above.
Just Bill
10-24-2013, 01:53
Kevin-
For the most part the wind shell does not fit into your system, especially if it’s a pull-over.
The hood isn’t a deal breaker, but it does help.
As your typical system sits; using the wind shell as a VBL for your Deep Winter/Winter trips would be the best fit. Worn right over your base layer the DWR coating should be sufficient to do the job. As you frequently bring a sleeping layer this would maximize the warmth of your other layers without leaving you wearing a damp base layer at night. Even though your insulation is all synthetic, you are in cold enough weather to take advantage of a VBL during that season. If you did eventually switch to down the VBL would be even more useful.
For the most part all your other combos typically have enough different pieces that you can sufficiently layer for wind. You already have a rain shell in your system- needed for (DW to Shoulder) or a personal comfort choice (Summer to Shoulder). Since you have a full range of layers, you can sufficiently reduce insulation while wearing a rain shell to prevent sweating yourself out.
The wind shell could be used in combination with your fleece top to stretch its effectiveness and avoid having to bring the puffy during the milder parts of shoulder season. As you know, fleece is useless for insulation if even a fly fart’s worth of breeze stirs. In these cases, the shell could cut any brisk breeze during the day. At break or evenings- the fleece goes on with the wind shell to maximize its warmth.
On a nice trail in the winter (no bushwhacking)- the wind shell may be able to replace your hard shell as DWR is typically fine for light snow- but that’s a bit risky for your style and no hood may leave your neck drafty. Even on a trail though I imagine you’re doing a little stomping around for firewood so you run the risk of damaging it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
FYI- or if you wanted to change it up a bit-
The reasons the wind shell is so popular are two-fold
Westerners-
At the higher elevations, wind is the enemy. Especially in the warm months they are invaluable. As you clear tree line and the temps drop 20 degrees your sweaty baselayer causes flash cooling that can be cured by slipping your wind shell on, often in stride. As you clear the exposed section of trail and dip back into the trees, off slips the shell- often into a pocket.
You may adopt this technique out east during warm months, or consider the shell for daytime stops. Out west rain risk is lower, and often short lived so a good DWR is an adequate rain shell. So the DWR wind shell often replaces the rain shell in your system.
Hot bodies-
For faster folks like me, we sweat out a rain shell, even as low as the 30’s. At 3MPH you will often get a 20 degree metabolism boost, breaks are short, and days are long. The typical ultralight/high mileage hiking or sleeping system you hear about. Dress for walking, no camp clothes, sleep in your bag for warmth. A typical system is a skirt or running shorts (except for bushwhacking) followed by (Patagonia numbers) a Merino 1 or Capiline 1 top (60’s +), Cap 2 or 3 (45-60), Merino1 or cap2 + Cap 4(insulation) (30-45).
Hats and gloves should go on as early as 60/70 as they are lighter than a second top and allow quick adjustments if you start to overheat. The one item that is constant in that system is the wind shell. I prefer the Patagonia Houdini, full zip with hood, 4 ounces. The DWR will shed steady rain for 30-60 minutes depending on temps. Often this is the only shell piece. The shell, hat and gloves are all stored in reach so you don't have to stop.
Once rain gets heavier or hypothermia becomes a bigger danger most folks switch to a full rain shell, a 2.5 layer or similar, many can be found for under 8 ounces. At this point I cheat, I have my own rain cape that I wear to serve as my rain shell down to 30 or so that fits into my overall system and doubles as other things so I rarely use a WPB shell, the wind shell is my only shell. For actual winter time- I use a pretty traditional system you’d be familiar with, deep winter isn’t for messing around.
Bonus use-
The Houdini is also a reasonable bug shirt, makeshift skirt during laundry days, fanny pack, and pack cover for light rain. It also compliments a light quilt and adds to sleep system warmth. For me it goes on every trip up to winter time, although I have two; a large for most trips and extra- large for colder weather use instead of a heavier hard shell when it’s cold enough that snow won’t be melting on my shell. In an emergency, my quilt has a drawstring footbox and can be worn under the larger Houdini as a puffy.
It can be found on sale for $50, so it’s not a wallet killer if you wanted to try one, full retail is $100.
Pants-
A wind pant is often little lighter than a true WPB garment, but almost all the same applies. Although I usually add merino or cap tights first, many folks start with a wind pant. Most rarely wear pants (for backpacking) unless it’s forty or below in the hot body system- otherwise I bring similar to you. The weight advantage of a wind pant is slim though, so most end up with just a WPB pant, or cheap wind pant like the one Mags posted before.
This is a video worth watching, all of Mike’s stuff is. Not really your style, but specifically, at 7:40 he demonstrates the wind shell on and off trick that helps make it so popular. He even does it with a pullover style, some of those go down to 2 ounces. For 2 extra ounces I like the full zip though for venting. It really can go pretty smooth, with the full zip I don’t even take off my shoulder straps.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_J4D3AHzlxQ
Max and lush must be working on their hot bodies responses, otherwise I'm sure they would've helped out.
Another Kevin
10-24-2013, 11:34
For the most part the wind shell does not fit into your system, especially if it’s a pull-over.
Thanks for the detailed reply! My chief takeaway is that we're dealing with a difference in hiking style. I'm not up to the speed that the long-distance folks make, and we Easterners don't do elevation. You seem to be telling me that I'm carrying pretty much the right set of layers for my style. The "wind-shirt as VBL" is an interesting idea, and I might try that if I do a winter peak-bagging trip this year.
Wow, JB I can finally be glad to say I am no longer the king of long winded posts. You have more pinballs bouncing around under that hat than me. Lots of stuff I appreciated though.:D One thought, there's not always a need to have a separate windshirt functioning as a VBL, which it really isn't anyway, when you already have a dry rain jacket as a KINDA VBL. I get the idea though. If on a longish winter or wet environment hike the windshirt could double as an impromptu VBL inside a down sleeping bag(if you choose that choice of insulation on such a hike) or under down insulating apparel. In this regard, I like what I think it was Leaftye said he does in layering: base layer, with the rain clothing over that, and his insulation over the rain wear. This COULD have the benefit of not having a separate VBL. I like what Skurka shared about this kind of thing in his gear set up with his LOOONG Alaska hike. Maybe it's just me but I notice more western hikers and the fast and light UL crowd with windshirts rather than say the east coast hikers. As AK says in a nutshell it really depends on hiking style, how one gears up, and the type of hikes/outdoor activities one does.
max patch
10-24-2013, 12:22
Max and lush must be working on their hot bodies responses, otherwise I'm sure they would've helped out.
I've never used a windshirt. I don't give advice on things I don't know about. Thats a trait I wish a few others followed.
How would a breathable windshirt function as a VBL? I use a cuben rain suit which isn't breathable for VBL but breathable and VBL seem mutually exclusive.
How would a breathable windshirt function as a VBL?... That's my pt. It really isn't but I think it can be used to cut down on the vapor being tranferred to down insulation. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think that's really what JB was saying and what I alluded to. Your use of the cuben(being unbreathable)is a better example of or can function more in accordance as a real VBL.
That's my pt. It really isn't but I think it can be used to cut down on the vapor being tranferred to down insulation. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think that's really what JB was saying and what I alluded to. Your use of the cuben(being unbreathable)is a better example of or can function more in accordance as a real VBL.
Im a little slow today, its been a tough day.
Violent Green
10-24-2013, 22:44
I use a windshirt similar to Malto. When hiking in cool weather, roughly 25-45 degrees, I put it on over a t-shirt or baselayer and I'm warm enough to not need additional insulation while on the move. Below that I will hike in a baselayer, 100wt fleece, and windshirt. Anything more than either of these setups and I sweat. Hiking in a puffy or a synthetic jacket usually isn't necessary for me. YMMV.
Regarding breathability of windshirts vs rain shells - Even the least breathable windshirt FAR outbreaths any rain jacket. Most rain jackets will be at ~0 CFM, while the most poor breathing windshirts will flow in the ~5 CFM range.
Ryan
Ryan
Just Bill
10-25-2013, 00:01
Malto-
As AK mentioned picking up a cheapie, I assumed he probably got something closer to a windbreaker, not a real windshell.
The cheapies are usually 1.1 silnylon or pu coated nylon- close enough for his use as a VBL. While they technically qualify as breathable-the breath test would probably tell the tale- but I'll leave it to Max or other qualified folks to provide the answer on that.
Some cheapies found on a quick search-
http://www.amazon.com/Harriton-M775-Nylon-Staff-Jacket-Red-Medium/dp/B006HT3TKQ/ref=sr_1_1?s=apparel&ie=UTF8&qid=1382667802&sr=1-1&keywords=NYLON+WINDBREAKER
http://www.amazon.com/Dickies-Front-Nylon-Jacket-Black/dp/B0001YRYGI/ref=sr_1_1?s=apparel&ie=UTF8&qid=1382668263&sr=1-1&keywords=nylon+windbreaker+men
A post that popped up on the subject-
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/150698-Nylon-windbreaker-shell-is-it-good-for-anything
Kevin-
For the most part the wind shell does not fit into your system, especially if it’s a pull-over.
The hood isn’t a deal breaker, but it does help.
As your typical system sits; using the wind shell as a VBL for your Deep Winter/Winter trips would be the best fit. Worn right over your base layer the DWR coating should be sufficient to do the job. As you frequently bring a sleeping layer this would maximize the warmth of your other layers without leaving you wearing a damp base layer at night. Even though your insulation is all synthetic, you are in cold enough weather to take advantage of a VBL during that season. If you did eventually switch to down the VBL would be even more useful.
For the most part all your other combos typically have enough different pieces that you can sufficiently layer for wind. You already have a rain shell in your system- needed for (DW to Shoulder) or a personal comfort choice (Summer to Shoulder). Since you have a full range of layers, you can sufficiently reduce insulation while wearing a rain shell to prevent sweating yourself out.
The wind shell could be used in combination with your fleece top to stretch its effectiveness and avoid having to bring the puffy during the milder parts of shoulder season. As you know, fleece is useless for insulation if even a fly fart’s worth of breeze stirs. In these cases, the shell could cut any brisk breeze during the day. At break or evenings- the fleece goes on with the wind shell to maximize its warmth.
On a nice trail in the winter (no bushwhacking)- the wind shell may be able to replace your hard shell as DWR is typically fine for light snow- but that’s a bit risky for your style and no hood may leave your neck drafty. Even on a trail though I imagine you’re doing a little stomping around for firewood so you run the risk of damaging it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
FYI- or if you wanted to change it up a bit-
The reasons the wind shell is so popular are two-fold
Westerners-
At the higher elevations, wind is the enemy. Especially in the warm months they are invaluable. As you clear tree line and the temps drop 20 degrees your sweaty baselayer causes flash cooling that can be cured by slipping your wind shell on, often in stride. As you clear the exposed section of trail and dip back into the trees, off slips the shell- often into a pocket.
You may adopt this technique out east during warm months, or consider the shell for daytime stops. Out west rain risk is lower, and often short lived so a good DWR is an adequate rain shell. So the DWR wind shell often replaces the rain shell in your system.
Hot bodies-
For faster folks like me, we sweat out a rain shell, even as low as the 30’s. At 3MPH you will often get a 20 degree metabolism boost, breaks are short, and days are long. The typical ultralight/high mileage hiking or sleeping system you hear about. Dress for walking, no camp clothes, sleep in your bag for warmth. A typical system is a skirt or running shorts (except for bushwhacking) followed by (Patagonia numbers) a Merino 1 or Capiline 1 top (60’s +), Cap 2 or 3 (45-60), Merino1 or cap2 + Cap 4(insulation) (30-45).
Hats and gloves should go on as early as 60/70 as they are lighter than a second top and allow quick adjustments if you start to overheat. The one item that is constant in that system is the wind shell. I prefer the Patagonia Houdini, full zip with hood, 4 ounces. The DWR will shed steady rain for 30-60 minutes depending on temps. Often this is the only shell piece. The shell, hat and gloves are all stored in reach so you don't have to stop.
Once rain gets heavier or hypothermia becomes a bigger danger most folks switch to a full rain shell, a 2.5 layer or similar, many can be found for under 8 ounces. At this point I cheat, I have my own rain cape that I wear to serve as my rain shell down to 30 or so that fits into my overall system and doubles as other things so I rarely use a WPB shell, the wind shell is my only shell. For actual winter time- I use a pretty traditional system you’d be familiar with, deep winter isn’t for messing around.
Bonus use-
The Houdini is also a reasonable bug shirt, makeshift skirt during laundry days, fanny pack, and pack cover for light rain. It also compliments a light quilt and adds to sleep system warmth. For me it goes on every trip up to winter time, although I have two; a large for most trips and extra- large for colder weather use instead of a heavier hard shell when it’s cold enough that snow won’t be melting on my shell. In an emergency, my quilt has a drawstring footbox and can be worn under the larger Houdini as a puffy.
It can be found on sale for $50, so it’s not a wallet killer if you wanted to try one, full retail is $100.
Pants-
A wind pant is often little lighter than a true WPB garment, but almost all the same applies. Although I usually add merino or cap tights first, many folks start with a wind pant. Most rarely wear pants (for backpacking) unless it’s forty or below in the hot body system- otherwise I bring similar to you. The weight advantage of a wind pant is slim though, so most end up with just a WPB pant, or cheap wind pant like the one Mags posted before.
This is a video worth watching, all of Mike’s stuff is. Not really your style, but specifically, at 7:40 he demonstrates the wind shell on and off trick that helps make it so popular. He even does it with a pullover style, some of those go down to 2 ounces. For 2 extra ounces I like the full zip though for venting. It really can go pretty smooth, with the full zip I don’t even take off my shoulder straps.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_J4D3AHzlxQ
Max and lush must be working on their hot bodies responses, otherwise I'm sure they would've helped out.
Uhhh.... you guys seem to have dragged seriousness to a whole nuther level. Is it even fun anymore?
Another Kevin
10-25-2013, 00:11
It's lots of fun. We're just long winded. :)
ahhh, dawnt be ah VBL overanalyzer hater:)
ahhh, dawnt be ah VBL overanalyzer hater:)
Hey, I like a good VBL as well as the next entity.
I purchased a Go Lite Orange wind shirt a few years ago, obviously super light, better than other colors in hunting season, have also used it on the back of my pack for same reason (hunters)
............from a clothing system standpoints I always take this along, I wear an Ice Breaker thin merino wool tee shirt, when it is chilly the tee shirt and the wind shirt works great, while I am hiking 35 degrees + I am fine, also helps at night when it is really cold, works as a vapor barrier.
Overall worth taking with me.............washes out and dries fast, good gear.
In cold weather, or windy cool weather, I will wear a breathable windshirt over my base layer, which is usually a merino wool mock-zip long sleeve top. If I get too warm on trail, I take off the wind shirt. When stopped for a break or in camp, the windshirt stays on and I'll add a fleece or puffy layer as needed. The windshirt, being slippery, makes it really easy to put on and/or remove any layers you add. Especially helpful if fleece is the next layer out. I will usually sleep in the windshirt as well, which helps me "spin" under my quilt or in my sleeping bag with little friction and bunching of material. My favorites are the Mountain Hardware Ghost Whisperer (ridiculously expensive, but the lightest hooded full zip windshirt that I have found) and a non-hooded pullover half-zip windshirt from GoLite that I've had for years.
I wish that I had purchased one with a hood.
Ditto Mont Bell synthetic jacket.
To me the deal is pretty much you are moving and warm or getting setlled, in sleeping bag............not that this is the thread topic but since I went into no cook mode it is more hiking until sunset and hiking.
Key lesson learned, easier to STAY WARM THAN TO GET WARM, when you stop, DO NOT GET COLD, if that means a wind shirt, add it in.
wiiawiwb
12-13-2013, 12:34
I'm trying to understand the purpose of a windshirt. In my case, we're talking about hiking in the Northeast. I never leave home without a goretex shell. I have a very lightweight one from Arcteryx and a heavier weight goretex shell for winter.
If I am always going to carry my goretex shell, what's the point of adding another garment to the backpack? I do understand it will be lighter on me than the goretex shell but it seems I'm spending money for something I already have covered.
I'm obviously missing something because they seem to be very popular these days.
handlebar
12-16-2013, 15:56
One of my "go to" pieces of gear on all but mid-summer hikes is my Marmot Dri-clime windshirt that is a breathable jacket with a fleecelike lining. In 20 degree temps with wind this past weekend, it was layered on top of my mid-weight, long-sleeved marino top while hiking. When stopping and in camp, my down sweater and rain jacket complete my kit. I find the windshirt breathes way better than my e-vent rain jacket and the DWR treatment is sufficient for light snow and mist.
Kerosene
12-16-2013, 16:24
I'm trying to understand the purpose of a windshirt. In my case, we're talking about hiking in the Northeast. I never leave home without a goretex shell. I have a very lightweight one from Arcteryx and a heavier weight goretex shell for winter.
If I am always going to carry my goretex shell, what's the point of adding another garment to the backpack? I do understand it will be lighter on me than the goretex shell but it seems I'm spending money for something I already have covered.
I'm obviously missing something because they seem to be very popular these days.The only thing you *might* be missing is when your rain jacket is wet from a steady rain; wearing it in camp or when it isn't raining hard isn't always very comfortable. However, I rarely bring both my e-Vent rain jacket and a lightweight (2-3 oz) wind shell; when I do it is because I anticipate high winds where I will need the wind break but still want the enhanced breathability. I've got my total carry weight low enough now that sometimes I will add such a piece back in.
3 oz golite hooded pullover windshirt and 5 oz columbia shorts are the only 2 clothing items that I always end up using in all 4 seasons - no matter what is anticipated these 2 always fit in