View Full Version : Medim ALICE pack frame vs. no frame?
OK up to this point I've been a day hiker. In the spring I want to do my first section hike on the AT. I have a late 1980's era US Military Meduim ALICE pack that was issued to me in the Civil Air Patrol when I was 13 (I'm now 39). I've taken it camping and hiking it the US, Canada, and Central America. I carried it when I was in the Guard and when I was a ranger with TN State Parks. I intend to use it for this
Up to now I've used it frameless with shoulder straps, which is an option on the Medium. Now that these packs are obsolete surplus, frames for them are cheap. What are the advantages of a frame vs frameless?
If the only thing you have used is an old ALICE pack, then you really don't know what a modern well designed pack feels like.
You are much better off buying a used pack made in the last 10 years than spending more money on your old pack.
OK now that I'm done preaching :)
The frame gets the load off your shoulders and on to your hips where it belongs. This increases your load carrying capacity and reduces your chance of back injury.
Overall it makes carrying a load much more enjoyable.
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There are much better fitting packs than an ALICE pack on a frame... as for carrying one frame-less (like a traditional rucksack): this could be so torturous that you might admit to crimes you didn't commit by the end of the hike.
I kid you not. I saw a hiker with a picture of Alice from the Brady Bunch attached to the top of his pack. I asked why? He looked at me inquisitively as if everyone knew he had an Alice pack. Up to that pt I had no idea such a pack existed.
One thing I've learned is that in all fields of endeavor the minute you buy something, there is always something else newer or better that you could buy. If I were thru hiking I'd buy different gear. I figured that the frame would likely help distribute the load, even as it adds to the overall weight. Thanks for the advice.
Cedar1974
10-14-2014, 21:18
I actually use a Large Alice pack. Now yes, the pack weighs about 6 pounds empty. I want to try and shage down the weight of my current gear because the Large Alice Pack can comfortably carry 70 pounds. I want the rest of my gear to be at least 10 pounds so I can carry 60 pounds of food for my through hike of the AT.
swjohnsey
10-15-2014, 07:40
Medium Alice doesn't hold much. If you carry it use a frame. I have several that I liberated from the army over 20 years. I wouldn't consider it unless I was homeless or something. I saw a few folks start out with them but they either quit or changed early on.
Anyone who believes an ALICE will carry 70 lbs comfortably has worn one for long. 60 lbs of food?
Cedar1974
10-15-2014, 08:34
Yes, 60 lbs of food. I know it may sound cray, but I would rather have the food in case I get stuck someplace where I cannot resupply for a while on my thru-hike. Also I have loaded my large ALICE with about 70 lbs of gear with all my more bulky gear, and once I had it on it balanced all the gear nicely. I guess being a Military B.R.A.T. has made me biased toward mil spec gear.
Tuckahoe
10-15-2014, 09:14
I was a military brat and started out in a Boy Scout troop sponsored by a navy base and lead by sailors and marines and even in the 80s and none of us ever thought that an Alice pack would be suitable for backpacking. Of course I still like external frames.
And carrying 60lbs of food would be rather crazy on a thru. As will be pointed out the ability to resupply comes about every three to five days with the Hundred Mile Wilderness being the longest stretch between resupply. At generally 2lbs a day there is no need to carry 30 days worth of food for a just incase.
Tipi Walter
10-15-2014, 09:20
There are much better fitting packs than an ALICE pack on a frame... as for carrying one frame-less (like a traditional rucksack): this could be so torturous that you might admit to crimes you didn't commit by the end of the hike.
I used my ALICE in both configs---frameless and framed. I had the superbly padded quick-release shoulder straps and the dang thing was comfortable UNTIL you put more than about 40 lbs and then of course without a hipbelt it hung off my shoulders and caused the usual complaints---sore neck, a "pack headache", and swollen hands. But it sure was nice with just the right weight.
The ALICE frame is to me a complete engineering mistake as the frame is too short with the hipbelt coming way up on my stomach with no real torso adjustment. I hated using the pack with the frame.
And let's face it, the ALICE is not the pack for long expedition trips (think 80lbs with 45lbs of food) as then you end up with everything tied onto the outside of the pack.
Yes, 60 lbs of food. I know it may sound cray, but I would rather have the food in case I get stuck someplace where I cannot resupply for a while on my thru-hike. Also I have loaded my large ALICE with about 70 lbs of gear with all my more bulky gear, and once I had it on it balanced all the gear nicely. I guess being a Military B.R.A.T. has made me biased toward mil spec gear.
you will either have a very short thru hike or you will change tactics by Neals Gap if you NoBo the AT. If I was hiking with you, I would take no food. You will be begging people to eat your food load down.
Cedar1974
10-15-2014, 10:35
you will either have a very short thru hike or you will change tactics by Neals Gap if you NoBo the AT. If I was hiking with you, I would take no food. You will be begging people to eat your food load down.
Hey, I have no problem hiking with a heavy load, and I will be more than happy to carry enough food to feed the whole group. Heck I could even use it to drive bears away I guess. though I am thinking of carrying plenty of MRE packs, so I could more than likely carry maybe 60 days of food in the pack.
Tipi Walter
10-15-2014, 11:15
Hey, I have no problem hiking with a heavy load, and I will be more than happy to carry enough food to feed the whole group. Heck I could even use it to drive bears away I guess. though I am thinking of carrying plenty of MRE packs, so I could more than likely carry maybe 60 days of food in the pack.
60 Days of food? MRE's are heavy. And a decent backpacking diet without resupply means VARIETY which means more than MRE's. It means granola bars and power bars and oatmeal and raisins and cheese and bread and ramens and mac&cheese and rice and beans and dates and peanut butter and almond/cashew butter and corn chips and rice cakes and fruit jams and whatever else you feel like eating.
Thru long experience I've determined that a normal backpacker willing to carry some tremendous weight (with a good pack and not an ALICE), can go between 24-30 days with one food load w/o resupply. Of course a stove must be carried for cooking dehydrated food otherwise an all-snackable diet will be too heavy due to the inherent water-weight in no-cook foods. This is why some serious backpackers devote many days before a trip with a home dehydrator to prepare trip meals. Things like dried soups, chilis, tomatoes, anything in a can, complete spaghetti meals, spinach, broccoli---all dried at home.
30 days with one food load is the outer limit and then only comes with careful at-home drying. 21 days is more reasonable.
Then the question would be---Why carry 21 days worth of food on the AT when resupply is available every 3 to 5 days? Well, Eric Ryback used to carry 20 days worth of food when he thruhiked the AT back in 1970 and wrote how good it felt to be free from town visits for the next 3 weeks. Totally agree. I go backpacking to leave folding money, commerce, roads and non-backpacking people. If I wanted to go to a town every 4 days I'd just stay at home.