View Full Version : pct-l still active and bonus question. :)
The last pct-l message I have is from September 28th.... Still subscribed - anyone else getting message?
Bonus question: I'm guessing trail runners will suffice all the way?
If so, I'm going to start watching for sales and order 6 pair...
I receive one "digest" email per day. Latest was today around 1pm Eastern time.
yes pct-l is still alive but the posting has slowed down
...Bonus question: I'm guessing trail runners will suffice all the way?
For you, you'll be fine with the trail runners. Though I did change up the models/brands T runners in the different conditions going with really UL SUPER breathable T runners for SoCal on mostly sand/soft pack but which I had some issues with going up icy/snow covered Baden Powell/Fuller Ridge in regards to traction. There were 3 ft deep icy slippery snowcups when I tackled the ascent of BP/FR. Snow conditions can change from one yr to the next though. Might be a cakewalk for you. Then, went to sturdier beefier trail runners w/ much better traction for more rocky and plenty of snow Sierra conditions at the very front of the thru-hiker pack. Went with no ice axe or MicroSpikes so it was my thought my T Runners and hiking approach had to address traction. Once I got out of the Sierras and I was past the possible risk of hiking on snow around Quincy CA and those second pr of T Runners were toast went back to something in between those two T Runners for the rest of the hike.
If so, I'm going to start watching for sales and order 6 pair...
I've done this with varying success. Sometimes I find a hiking shoe that I wish I had 6 prs of and at other times I bought 4 prs of the same brand/model in the same size and wound up not being able to or wanting to use the remaining two pr. You are bright enough to know the possible pros/cons/considerations you might take into account when ordering 6 pr of the same hiking shoe. IMO, there's my diversity of terrain and possible conditions that one may not be aware of when you're going from the AT/east coast to the PCT. For example, I was off base in my assumptions of SoCal. I thought it would be almost all low/mid elev hot desert hiking. Froze my tail off a few night until I made a few kit adjustments. Also, there are these little bumps :) called Mt San Jacinto, Baden-Powell, Fuller Ridge.
Since I answered the bonus round question what do I get?
I've worn the same model of running shoe since 2001 and have hiked in the trail runner version of that shoe since 2007 so I'm 100% sure this is the right shoe for me. I was just wondering if the trail was trail runner friendly from start to finish.
You win the coveted "Thank you!" award. :)
BTW, the shoe is the Brooks Adrenaline ASR.... http://www.roadrunnersports.com/rrs/products/BRK1080/mens-brooks-adrenaline-asr-9/
Mountain Mike
11-13-2013, 19:20
Have you tried http://www.leftlanesports.com (http://www.leftlanesports.com/) They have a pretty good seletion & many sales. Even an email sign up for sales.
Never heard of it Mike, I'll check it out - thanks.
PCT -L has been acting up. I go in via the archives and there has been no posts lately.
As far as bulk shoes. If you know what you like then go for it. I did that but with five pairs. Replaced at Mojave, TM, Castella and cascade locks. It works out great and I was able to find LaSportiva Wildcats at $70/pair. I did bump up half a size on the last three pairs but I didn't have the foot growth issue that others have claimed so it wasn't required. It could be that I had many miles of hiking prior to the PCT.
The PCT is definitely trail runner friendly. Good wool socks are the key in the Sierras, though some will use goretex socks there too. But it's the wool socks that count.
I've always found the signal-to-noise ratio to be low for pct-l. You could consider a Facebook group, either the generic:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/PCNST/
Or a per-year group such as
https://www.facebook.com/groups/573346889342374/
Consider throwing into the mix some breathable gaiters like Dirty Girls for keeping sand, debris(Socal), and snow out(Sierras). They aren't WP nor are they just for women. You can throw some 10-k+ style into your kit with DG gaiters. Xy Weiss(Dirty Girl Gaiters) is sometimes at the Kick Off. Go talk to her if you can. She's a trip(no pun intended) and a bundle of laughs and style. http://www.dirtygirlgaiters.com/about.html Might want to have Kahtoola Microspikes(or similar) waiting on the sidelines to be mailed to you at KM in a pinch if you find yourself in a higher snow yr entering the higher elev Sierras.
SCRUB HIKER
11-15-2013, 00:58
I think both PCT-L and the year-by-year facebook groups are barely worth it to try and sift through, especially for someone like yourself, 10-K, who's probably already pretty comfortable with the basics of long-distance hiking. Too many posts from people that have not thru-hiked or even come close.
Trail runners definitely sufficed the whole way in 2013, for me and 95% of the others out there. You know your footwear's mileage better than me, but I was only mid-way through my fourth pair of Vasque Mindbenders by the time I got to Canada. The PCT tread is very gentle on shoes compared to the AT/Eastern trails in general.
Years ago I changed my PCT-L settings so it doesn't mail me anything. I read everything by going through the archives (http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/) page but can still post via email. That way I can pick and choose what I read. If you want to know if the list is done, just glance at the archives and see what the last posting date is. If you haven't gotten anything recently, then I suspect its your email.
Me too Miner. Sometimes, I would receive 20+ PCT-L updates per day. Got to be too much based on what I knew about how to amend what I received in emails at the site.
I feel like a dofus... For whatever reason, on September 25th gmail decided that PCT-L was spam and started sending messages to my spam folder. It never occurred to me to look there until the other day.
Bonus question #2: The kickoff... Last year there were over 900 people there. Even though I'm guessing a huge bunch of them weren't hikers I'm thinking if a herd of hikers hit the trail within 48 hours of each other resupply attempts would likely be taking whatever was left on stripped bare shelves unless you were lucky enough to get to a store before everyone else. Right? Wrong?
I feel like a dofus... For whatever reason, on September 25th gmail decided that PCT-L was spam and started sending messages to my spam folder. It never occurred to me to look there until the other day.
Bonus question #2: The kickoff... Last year there were over 900 people there. Even though I'm guessing a huge bunch of them weren't hikers I'm thinking if a herd of hikers hit the trail within 48 hours of each other resupply attempts would likely be taking whatever was left on stripped bare shelves unless you were lucky enough to get to a store before everyone else. Right? Wrong?
Postholer goes on a regular rant about the impact of kickoff regarding concentration of hikers. If you go to his site and go to the hiker registry on the left hand side you will find the daily start distribution for each year. You will find that many start early and come back so the herd tends to be a bit more spread. I also remember a graphic that showed how the herd elongates as time goes on. I really didn't experience a major herd since I started so late, May 21st. I hit pockets of hikers between Aqua Dulce and Kennedy Medows but the High Sierra snow bottleneck end the hikers at KM in '11
I'd like to go to the kickoff but I'd hate to be jammed up with a bunch of hikers competing for the last pack of tortillas...
Leaving early and coming back is an idea but I don't want to get to Kennedy Meadows too soon either. Maybe do a few mail drops the first couple hundred miles.
Long time till then, anything could happen I guess.
SCRUB HIKER
11-16-2013, 21:40
I started a week after Kickoff this year and by Agua Dulce I had started to catch up to the back end of the crowd that had started there. By then I had also heard stories from the early trail angel houses (Mike Herrera's, Ziggy & Bear's, the Big Bear places, the Andersons on Memorial Day weekend) about enormous numbers of hikers overwhelming them for a few nights and then passing through. Numbers like 82 people at the Andersons, 50 at Ziggy & Bear's one night (when you see the property, you'll understand how packed that is).
I was very glad to have avoided that whole scene. Even the hyper-social people who were in it and didn't mind big crowds as a general concept ... I heard some of them say it was a bit much at times. I heard that all the Andersons' port-o-johns were overflowing, for instance. Also heard that at Herrera's every inch of sheltered space, including the sketchy ass hanta sheds, was taken up on their big nights because it was raining.
I don't think resupply spots getting picked clean would be a big problem in the first few hundred miles. Not everyone goes to Julian, people only ship boxes to Warner Springs, Idyllwild has decent-sized full groceries, Ziggy & Bear's / I-10 is maildrop only, Big Bear has massive grocery stores, Wrightwood a decent sized one, same with Agua Dulce. I would just be more concerned about crowding as a general nuisance, especially at otherwise nice trail angel houses.
Two others(one was on REI's Board of Directors) and myself started 8 days before the KO and had a ride set up to bring us back to Lake Morena. It was easy finding a ride back north. Pct-L has a good ride board. OR, do as Scott Williamson sometimes does like when going after records - start the PCT late, do BIG MPDs, avoid the bunched up bubble(as Malto said the herd thins and spreads out, be mindful where hikers bunch back up though - Agua Dulce, KM, etc), avoid hitting the harshest snow conditions in higher snow yrs, and zoom zoom zoom your way to a speedy PCT thru-hike or yo-yo. I make it sound simple. LOL.
I know some PCT thru-hiker alumni who get to Socal about a wk or two before the KO, do some hiking(the PCT isn't the only hiking in SoCal) and/or take in other outdoor activities, and then go to the KO to help out. It's kind of a REALLY NEAT tradition for PCT alumni to come back to serve at the KO. It was kinda neat to have Yogi, Eric Ryback, and Nimblewill Nomad making me up a burrito and then having one on one conversations with Henry Shires and Brian Frankel about gear and sitting around a campfire with Trauma and Billy Goat of PCT notoriety.
The ride back north is easy to get impromptu as so many are heading that way after or near the end of the KO. Just pick a good spot(where the PCT crosses a busy road for example) to get off and get back on the PCT. Obviously, you CAN adjust your timing to hit the KO and avoid the bubble just as you adjust on any log distance hike. Sometimes, you have to adjust your timing(MPDs, avg MPH, etc) when on trail, especially in SoCal on the PCT,to possibly avoid getting bunched up in places like KM if you get there too early for your yr's thru-hike snow levels in context of your individual snow skills. You'll be fine with the resupply 10-K - unless the Zombie Apocalypse occurs.
I can't speak for the desires of everyone else but FOR ME attending KO's are definitely enriching experiences BOTH as a PCT thru-hiker and as one involved with the event not thru-hiking. FOR ME, I go there as if it's my family reunion.
Thanks for the suggestions.
So - the KO this year is the 25/26th. If I got there a week early (say the 19th) and started hiking that would put me about ~150ish miles up the trail which is about 20% of the way to Kennedy Meadows. Assuming I got a ride and was back on the trail by the 27th, I'd get to KM fairly early in the season and that sounds like a potential recipe for sitting there for days.
It's early yet - winter snowfall will tell me more. Still reading up on the trail - so much to learn.
PCT-L is a lot better if you use gmail. It groups related emails together so that it's more like a forum thread. If you use an existing account, then filter all PCT-L posts into a separate folder. Even though I rarely read PCT-L nowadays, I keep it active because it's much easier to search and read posts in gmail than it is to mess with the archives. If it wasn't for gmail, I wouldn't use PCT-L.
That's exactly how I manage PCT-L too leaftye.
10k - if I were going out to hike the pct again with no time constraints on start or finish date then I would use the traditional "Ray Day" method of determining the start date. You probably have seen this but Ray Day is june 15th and is Jardine's recommended target date for entering the Sierra. You have enough experience that you could probably predict how long it will take you to do the first 700 miles. Subtract that from June 15th and that is a target start date. If you use that start date then where would you be for kickoff? (My gut feel is sitting at home waiting to start the PCT.) Further, if you have flexibility then you can adjust in March based on a guess of snow conditions.
I was originally targeting a May 15th start which would have meant a June 9th Sierra start. As the snow conditions in '11 kept getting worse I pushed the start date back a week to May 21st and left KM on June 14th. Knowing what I know now, I would have started May 28th and hit the Sierra on June 21st. That extra week would have allowed snow to melt out from the Sierra north just a bit more.
You're right.... using the mileage I'm used to hiking here in the east would put me in KM in approximately 36-38 days. (I generally average 20 mpd at the end of a hike which means most days I'm hiking 23-26 because of neros and resupply trips off the trail.)
I have no idea if that'll hold true hiking in the desert or not.
Backing out 38 days from June 15th would give a May 8th start date. Dang.
I can be as flexible as I need to be with the start date but I would like to be at the KO just for the experience.
handlebar
11-17-2013, 12:01
+1 all of Dogwood's recommendations: trail runners, micro spikes, etc. I wore heavy boots, LaSportiva Makalu's on my hikes thru 2012' but am a convert to Brooks Cascadias, which were fine on the Colorado Trail this past summer including some remaining snow banks on a section of an alternate I took along the CDT north of I-70.
As to rides back too the kickoff for an early start, I managed to connect thru pct-l and the AZtPCTKO ride board. I had a wild itinerary on my '08 hike. Due to two of my nephew' shaving the temerity to schedule their weddings on Memorial Day and July 4th weekends that year, I did a flip-flop. Started April at Walker Pass sobo to Cajon Pass where I got a ride from Joe and Terri Anderson to the Kickoff, then hiked from the Kickoff nobo to Cajon Pass with the herd. Got a ride from there to LA from a trail angel I connected with on pct-l for the trip back east for first wedding. I used buses to get from LAX to Onyx then a hitch to Walker Pass and hiked nobo with the front end of the herd leaving KM on June 3. There were plenty of footprints on the snow leading to and north of the Sierra passes, though every year's snow pack is different. Next spring check out the snow depth pages on post holder.com. There were a good number of folks heading out from KM on June 3 because a fire just to the N of there had stopped about 30 or so at KM. I hooked up with a 30-something guy for many of the Sierra Passes and did resupply over Kearsarge Pass at Bishop via the bus from Independence. Also resupplied at VVR and Mammoth Lakes via Reds Meadow. Made it to I-80 and Pooh Corner for flight back from Reno for July 4th and when I returned hiked nobo the rest of the way.
I found the PCT much easier than the AT and finished in 5 months, excluding the return trips east. You'll love this trail. You can team up with compatible hikers part of the way or find as much solitude as you want. Enjoy!
PCT-L is a lot better if you use gmail. It groups related emails together so that it's more like a forum thread. If you use an existing account, then filter all PCT-L posts into a separate folder. Even though I rarely read PCT-L nowadays, I keep it active because it's much easier to search and read posts in gmail than it is to mess with the archives. If it wasn't for gmail, I wouldn't use PCT-L.
I was told that before and it didn't sink in. THX for reminding us of this.
Thanks for the suggestions.
So - the KO this year is the 25/26th. If I got there a week early (say the 19th) and started hiking that would put me about ~150ish miles up the trail which is about 20% of the way to Kennedy Meadows. Assuming I got a ride and was back on the trail by the 27th, I'd get to KM fairly early in the season and that sounds like a potential recipe for sitting there for days.
It's early yet - winter snowfall will tell me more. Still reading up on the trail - so much to learn.
That's the way I looked at it preparing for the PCT. I would like to remind you of what Garlic said on a different PCT related thread - "you can learn a lot as you go. Lots of PCTers do this." I say the same basic thing in my own way, "you evolve as a hiker." This happens to some extent on all hikes. Manage your hike. Manage yourself. Manage and adjust your evolution as a hiker(and as a person). Some have a hard time with that though because they have this idea that they need to "know" ALL that is yakkety yakked concerning hiking. It's a mistaken assumption. Don't hike with apprehension. Hike the PCT with a composed contented attitude assuring yourself you'll work things out; I'm not saying be indifferent though! Condensed, don't let not knowing everything make you feel worried.
I think I have a good feel for your hiking abilities. You bring a lot to a PCT thru-hike. Get up to date water reports, learn about some PCT desert hiking techniques, keep up to date along the way BEFORE you arrive at KM on recommended Sierra entry dates at KM, take GOOD account of your hiking abilities(I assume they are almost exclusively east coast based, adjust as you feel necessary for the PCT), and go roll with it having a content happy safe PCT hike.:) You should be fine.
As far as learning about the PCT. You'll get quite a few good tips at the KO. You'll be immersed in others who share a love of the PCT, many who have thrued the PCT or have a vast personal knowledge of the PCT, and you'll get as deep a wealth of SOLID PCT thru-hiking advice as you wish to absorb. One of the primary intentions of the KO is to assist PCTers be better prepared for their hikes. It's like a last minute PCT crash course providing broad recommendations. It's my illusion going to the KO eases the apprehension some PCTers experience pre-PCT hike. The KO is a bit different than Trail Days!
"I'd get to KM fairly early in the season and that sounds like a potential recipe for sitting there for days."
It's good that you are aware of that and that does happen sometimes to a greater extent in some higher snow level yrs BUT REMEMBER you can adjust the recipe. :) YOU are the chef of your hike! Those that don't find themselves bottled up at KM. For example, you DO NOT have to hike like a runaway freight train on single track. Adjust hiking pace, MPDs, etc. Think creatively. Come up with a solution that fits your hike. Notice what Williamson did/does on his hikes is another example of being creative. This is an aspect about HYOH that some don't get. I've seen a few blow off steam in other ways at KM not simply sitting around waiting for snow to melt. They adjust in other ways rather than sit. They do a couple of shorter day hikes around KM either on or not on the PCT. They fish. They strengthen hiker comradery. They assist or become trail angels(there's usually a few that stop in at KM). They catch up on reading. They repair and amend gear. They work on getting the gear and skills they didn't have in order to forge ahead on the hike. I've seen hikers that had little or no Sierras/snow hiking experiences hooking up with those that did and heading out together. LOL. (I had two JMTs under my belt when I did the PCT. There were six other PCTers that followed me out of KM for this reason). After a day w/me on the snow showing them a few things on route finding, snow travel, campsite selection, etc they were fine by themselves. Again, much of this stuff is covered in an even more condensed Mag's Quick and Dirty fashion at the KO.
Dogwood, I like the way you think because it's so different from the way my brain works. :) I have 2 hiking speeds - stop and go. I can certainly slow down and will if necessary and of course making myself useful at KM if I get there early is also an option.
We'll see... It'll all work out I'm sure.
Really appreciate everyone humoring my questions.
Several years ago Saufley's in Aqua Dulce put a hard limit on the number of hikers that can stay overnight (and the number of nights they can stay) due to the large numbers that would show up in a short period of time due to the KickOff. Donna stopped going to the kickoff in protest because of how it concentrates the hikers and stresses services that takes the Sierras to really start to spread out. Its also an issue of land management since the PCT goes through some wilderness areas in SoCal and land managers don't like having large groups there all at once. So I suspect if the number keep increasing we may start to see some changes anyway. The Kickoff already has hit the limit on the number of campers that can stay there so they are limiting the numbers of non-current thrus that can stay every year. I no longer go there for the entire thing, but just come down on Saturday as a result. I found the kickoff more useful prior to my thru-hike as that is the time to learn things and find out about gear. By the time you are actually hiking, the kickoff is just a fun experience as its too late to change much. I did appreciate the fact that I was able to heal my blisters for a few days while camping for free. However, if you miss it on your thru-hike, it won't negatively affect your hike.
When I hiked, I started on April 17th in 2009 and went back to the kickoff from the trail to avoid hiking with the herd (and it was smaller back then). I pulled my achilles coming into Idyllwild and went home for 3 weeks before returning at a slower pace until I was fully healed and missed the main part of the herd as it passed through. Due to my time off, I came into Big Bear in in late May and didn't leave the I-15 at Cajon Pass (and the McDonalds) until June 2. When I arrived at the Saufly's in Aqua Dulce, there was only about 9 people there as the herd was long past. I often hiked alone (especially between Tehachappi/Mojave and Kennedy Meadows) though there were still a few behind me somewhere. I left Kennedy Meadows on June 24 and slowly started to overtake the back of the herd (those moving slower, taking numerous zeros in town, etc.). By the time I left the Sierras, I was often hiking around other groups of hikers(4-6) but never huge groups. The only bunching was caused by a Fire in Old Station in early August that caused people over a large area to all jump ahead to the same point in Enta. I finished on Oct. 2. I was never a fast hiker, but was pretty disciplined in that I always tried to hit my daily mileage goals (26-29 mpd after Lake Tahoe) by doing long days and never took multiple zeros.