If you sleep cold, would this be enough for you with a 25 degree low?

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Originally Posted by Midwest Mike

Thanks for the advice and the laughs. Cmoulder, you would have the Xlite and the foam pads AND the SOlite? I was thinking the Xlite and two pads would take me up to about 5.5 R value, and that would be enough. But I'm happy to learn that I'm wrong.

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OK well it depends on what foam pads you're also carrying, but probably won't need all of that (although warmth would almost certainly be guaranteed!). A Z-lite, however, is about as compact as (or "least bulky") one can get and still have adequate insulation. For me, a GG Thinlight did not offer any appreciable benefit and that the R 3.3 rating of an Xlite is exceedingly generous.

I have an Xtherm Max (R 5.7, 20.6 oz) and when it gets down to about 15°F or lower I still need to supplement it with my long-ish 3/8" Evazote sit pad in the torso area, especially when camping on snow.

Definitely test various combos at a campsite not far from a trailhead before getting too deep into the woods.

so, foam pad on top of inflatable, or underneath?..

Some people are very adamant about the order they go in. I'm not convinced that it actually matters in terms of R-value. However, putting the foam mat underneath does provide some extra protection against puncturing the inflatable mat.

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Originally Posted by Secondmouse

so, foam pad on top of inflatable, or underneath?..

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I did some testing a few winters ago putting foam underneath and then on top during the course of the same night. It was always warmer for me on top. YMMV, for sure, so test.

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Originally Posted by cmoulder

I did some testing a few winters ago putting foam underneath and then on top during the course of the same night. It was always warmer for me on top. YMMV, for sure, so test.

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ok thanks, what foam pad did you use? my carry-along is a 24x48 piece of reflectix...

I tested GG Thinlight, 3/8" EVA from Lawson, RR Solite and just added (as of last weekend, at 4°F) the Zlite, but I didn't test the Zlite on the bottom. Zlite on top of Xtherm was super warm and will take be down well below zero. However I did test my oversize yellow Evazote sit pad (25"x15"x3/8") top and bottom, and it did nothing on the bottom and was surprisingly effective on top, barely insulating from shoulder to hip. I keep pushing it to see what is the minimum that will work for me.

Never tested Reflectix.

So far everything has worked better on top so of course I am developing a personal bias. It's dead easy for 'non-believers' to test for themselves — debating the technicalities is simply not necessary! :)

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Originally Posted by cmoulder

I tested GG Thinlight, 3/8" EVA from Lawson, RR Solite and just added (as of last weekend, at 4°F) the Zlite, but I didn't test the Zlite on the bottom. Zlite on top of Xtherm was super warm and will take be down well below zero. However I did test my oversize yellow Evazote sit pad (25"x15"x3/8") top and bottom, and it did nothing on the bottom and was surprisingly effective on top, barely insulating from shoulder to hip. I keep pushing it to see what is the minimum that will work for me.

Never tested Reflectix.

So far everything has worked better on top so of course I am developing a personal bias. It's dead easy for 'non-believers' to test for themselves — debating the technicalities is simply not necessary! :)

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thanks. it seems the folks who prefer inflatable on top of foam have a large enough foam to completely cover the bottom of the inflatable. otherwise, if any part of the air mat touches the cold ground, that robs heat from the entire mat through internal conduction. in this case, with a partial foam, it should go on top...

The 3/8" Lawson above was 25" wide and at the time I tested that one I was using an Exped Synmat 7, also 25" wide (the M/W version). The Solite and Zlite are 20" wide. I forget the width of the Thinlight.

I typically hate narrow air mats (dangling elbow syndrome) but I've got a Klymit intertia x lite (the teensy 6 oz one, 18"x42"x 1.5") to try just for the hell of it when the weather warms up.... I kinda doubt I will like it, but I like experimenting and love it when I am pleasantly surprised.

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Originally Posted by cmoulder

The 3/8" Lawson above was 25" wide and at the time I tested that one I was using an Exped Synmat 7, also 25" wide (the M/W version). The Solite and Zlite are 20" wide. I forget the width of the Thinlight.

I typically hate narrow air mats (dangling elbow syndrome) but I've got a Klymit intertia x lite (the teensy 6 oz one, 18"x42"x 1.5") to try just for the hell of it when the weather warms up.... I kinda doubt I will like it, but I like experimenting and love it when I am pleasantly surprised.

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I'm more inclined to take a small piece of foam than a short air mat. 18x36 is fine for my torso on top of a wider mattress and makes a good sit pad...

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Originally Posted by Secondmouse

I'm more inclined to take a small piece of foam than a short air mat. 18x36 is fine for my torso on top of a wider mattress and makes a good sit pad...

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Sounds like a good combo. I like the larger sit pad because it is long enough to cushion the butt and back when sitting on the ground and leaning on a rock or log. I call it 'my 4 oz chaise lounge' lol... does quadruple-duty by also supplementing the air mat, used as my door mat to protect the tent floor in the entrance area and sometimes as a windscreen for the stove, so it fits into the coveted multi-use category. :)

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Originally Posted by cmoulder

Sounds like a good combo. I like the larger sit pad because it is long enough to cushion the butt and back when sitting on the ground and leaning on a rock or log. I call it 'my 4 oz chaise lounge' lol... does quadruple-duty by also supplementing the air mat, used as my door mat to protect the tent floor in the entrance area and sometimes as a windscreen for the stove, so it fits into the coveted multi-use category. :)

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haha, 4oz chaise lounge. but that's exactly why I like the longer length - for leaning back against something.

larger size rolled up is not much bigger than the butt-sized ones but it's good for a quick nap with feet on pack, or to kneel on while making lunch, or to spread out the contents of my pack while invariably looking for something I thought I lost, etc...