You can download offline maps to Google maps. While probably not the best for offroad usage, it is a good way to have a map when cell signal is spotty. When I travel out of my local area, I download offline maps of the area I'm travelling to.
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I believe the GPS Essentials app runs on my Android phone without a data (cell) connection. Test: I tried it with cell data and wifi off. It did take significantly longer to get a fix (up to about 2 minutes), but it did work. Says I'm outside, about 15 ft on the other side of the wall from where I'm sitting. It seems to go in and out and lose its lock/fix from time to time - but this is inside a house with a metal roof as well. So it works pretty darn well all things considered. I know that Guthooks definitely works without cell data, as will google maps - but only if you download the necessary map/trip in advance of leaving cellular data range (and don't close the maps app).
I don't know of any smart phone GPS app that requires a cell phone connection. GPS Status doesn't require it, and I have had GPS Essentials on my phone and it did not require it. How do I know? Well, I used both at various times to check position when hundreds of miles offshore in a sailboat. No cell towers out there!
You're just ahead of your time
Hiking alone was the risk he accepted. If this happened 30 years ago, he'd have been found in a few weeks, not a few days. Satellites and cell-towers do not make you safer. I say get on the self reliance train or stay home.
With all due respect to you and to the deceased and his family, and from what tiny bits of info that are public from the sheriff and his family, and from reading perhaps more between the lines than I should, I am not convinced that he knew the risks or was capable of making clear, reasoned decisions, not just during the time he was disoriented/lost, but even before the trip began.
Thanks for bringing the topic back to Mr Eddie Noonkester and his unfortunate demise. I guess with so little information coming from the authorities this thread inevitably had to drift to smartphones and GPS/AGPS systems and 911 dispatchers and the GELS system and cellphone towers and Guthook and PLB's and low earth orbit satellites and Google maps and Iphone compass apps and all the rest. So many peripheral words but so little actual facts on the incident.
Back when I paddled lots of whitewater (including your neck of the woods, actually) American Whitewater would publish pretty detailed reports of incidents where paddlers were injured or killed, with an emphasis on lessons learned. And I suppose they still do. I haven't seen anything similar in the backpacking world, although it may exist and I just don't know about it. Publications like Backpacker will of course have articles on some events, but they're written for entertainment and seldom seem to give factual blow-by-blow accounts of what happened and talked about how it could be avoided by others.
I don't have a solution, just thinking out loud. Does anyone know of something that exists that serves this function?
Never seen it for the hiking/backpacking crowd but have seen it for the climbers and mountaineers....
although now now that I think about it—- does the AMC have some in their publication?
i have a subscription to their magazine but haven’t read one in years...
ill have have to look when I get home....
Yeah——just checked the AMC publication “Appalachia” and they have reports of hiking and climbing incidents.....
and, in theory, one could file a freedom of information act paperwork and request incident reports from various government agencies that have helped in a search or rescue.....
AMC does analysis of accidents and rescues in Whites in their quarterly Appalachia Journal https://www.outdoors.org/trip-ideas-...ces/appalachia. (Note this is not the same as the AMC Outdoors magazine they send out to members). I do not subscribe but have seen various reports they have done over the years and they are done objectively and triy to come to conclusions on the most likely scenario. The NH F&G department that directs all rescues in the state have debriefing sessions with the participants in the rescues after the rescue is over. They discuss what went right and what went wrong and try to add "lessons learned" as appropriate to future training scenarios. These are generally not public record.
Frequently families want closure but they also want privacy to mourn their loved ones. The major approach to a family finding closure is for the professionals to reassure them that everything was done to find their loved one and to return the remains with as much dignity as possible. There was case in the whites 20 years ago where a child got lost in hypothermic conditions and was found deceased after an extensive search. The family was unable to get closure and for years would pop up trying to force the case to be reopened as they could not accept that it was not foul play despite no evidence to the contrary.
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AMC does analysis of accidents and rescues in Whites in their quarterly Appalachia Journal https://www.outdoors.org/trip-ideas-...ces/appalachia. (Note this is not the same as the AMC Outdoors magazine they send out to members)
yeah....
i went back and looked and made post #135
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They discuss what went right and what went wrong and try to add "lessons learned" as appropriate to future training scenarios. These are generally not public record.
that is true-------and for some things that are public record, things get redacted out as well....
that was the case with the bear death in the smokies back in 2000----the report was released by the Park, but lots of stuff was redacted...
they also did not release the photos the lady took before she was attacked.........(she was out dayhiking and taking photos and presumably taking photos of the
bears as they were coming up to her).....
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The family was unable to get closure and for years would pop up trying to force the case to be reopened as they could not accept that it was not foul play despite no evidence to the contrary.
yeah...
we---the media----get this a lot with families calling us demanding that there was a coverup or a conspiracy or something like that with a crime or incident that happened
to their loved one.......
That seems like a remarkable leap based on no information.
Just saw this on youtube. I was on Blood Mountain during the unexpected foot deep snow they had a few weeks back. North Georgia is definitely a very unforgiving place. I always carry gear for the worst possible situation and it really paid off on Blood Mt. Even still I got beat to crap coming off that mountain, fell countless times. Just had to keep on getting up. Water was also frozen, I ate snow to keep hydrated. Not ideal, but it worked well enough. RIP dude.
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Water was also frozen, I ate snow to keep hydrated.
didnt have a way to melt it?
Eating snow adds to risk of hypothermia so using fire or stove to melt it is preferred. You didn't die so we'll count this one as a win either way :)
Respect for the dead or a conspiracy involving the Maine branch of the Deep State reflecting the light of Venus off swamp gas in order to mislead the sheeple into never suspecting the Reverse Vampires were behind it all. Since you are posting as you are in this thread I'm going to assume respect for the dead isn't a viable explanation as far as you're concerned.
On topic: RIP Eddie.
I've been watching this thread for awhile to learn about what may have happened. I'm home sick today and have been scouring the news sources on the web about the probable cause - still nothing that I can find. Hopefully the information will be released in order to benefit the hoard of potential thru hikers, many who are very inexperienced, about to hit the trail.
No.
We don't need the complete, official government write up on every situation that happens. There was more than enough information available -long- before the report was released to make rational decisions about wilderness safety. Assuming that the government held onto a report that wasn't in the slightest way damning as part of some conspiracy is borderline deranged.
The information is likely available, but you'd have to dig for it. It's not of general interest. The family certainly would want to know what might have happened beyond basic cause of death. Several agencies were likely involved. Are their reports all bundled together or do you have to look for them individually at the appropriate agencies? There maybe privacy issues too.
The details aren't all that important, except knowing cause of death would be helpful in answering some basic questions. Like did he expire from hypothermia, a physical medical condition or an injury? Maybe a combination of all three. One condition can quickly lead to the others.
The important lesson here is don't get lost!
To me addition details would:
A) Inform whether or not the search and rescue response was appropriate to the specific situation and,
B) Help confirm or challenge the notion (which was presented as an absolute by one person in this thread) that the best course of action when lost is to “stay put” and,
C) Potentially help educate the public on issues ranging from hypothermia, to other special considerations that some must consider before heading out on a hike
I would think such details could be done in a respectful rather than a sensational way. They are what they are.
Good to make them public, and widely available IMO.
You may like/want that (100% transparency) all you want, but generally HIPPA law applies for up to two years after death and there are also exceptions for denying FOIA requests. Those denials may be due to ongoing investigations, privacy of related parties, etc. Not everything is everybody else's business - even after death. And BTW, if it's Big Brother or a Deep State conspiracy you're looking for, I think you're looking in the wrong place. Government is less competent than you are giving it credit for. If you're looking for a sinister conspiracy, try Google, Facebook, Amazon, your phone carrier, your health insurance company, etc. They're in your head and wallet far more than the government.
We were informed. Everyone knew enough about what happened to know how to avoid a repeat and there was zero evidence leading to a rational suspicion that the RVs were involved.
Your concern about how my tax dollars are spent is duly noted. As someone from away it will be given appropriate attention.
This is a good standard to apply to these types of events. What the average hiker (much like pilots with aviation incidents) is looking for is information that helps prevent a similar situation or being able to recognize the links in the chain of events that can lead to a life threatening circumstance. What we cannot do easily is figure out why someone in a specific incident did what they did.
For example, the question of why Kate Matrosova opted to continue into terrible conditions in the White Mountains that led to her death cannot be factually answered and likely never will. But we can learn from the SAR/R report of the weather and terrain conditions, the gear she had, if electronic communication failed or worked, and other evidence starting with the "go" decision. We can't determine if there was a medical issue or a thought process that impacted Gerry Largay's state of mind and caused her to remain in place for a month, but we can determine what the weather and terrain conditions were, see how the search was conducted, know the gear she had, if electronic communication/signal worked or not, and other physical evidence of that incident.
The matter-of--fact language of these reports and that of NTSB and other investigative organizations following an event does provide the information necessary for interested parties to understand the circumstances and perhaps tuck away a fact or two that bubbles up when most needed. 4EB has a good point relative to HIPPA laws that protect patient privacy, which can delay some information release over time and would prevent some issues from being discussed in a report of this nature. However the SAR/R reports dealing with the physical evidence are typically presented in a manner people can learn from. Suggesting there is some kind of conspiracy to conceal evidence reminds me of a cartoon of three guys in a buried RV trailer, sitting around a dilapidated wood stove in their cami gear, eating cold beans from a can with a calendar in back of them showing expired and future "end of civilization" dates. Much as those fellows, we can only guess about why someone did what they did, and like the calendar all we have are the recorded facts in a report.
Any factual information regarding what may have contributed to the incident beyond the very basic information already provided will potentially be very helpful to the uninformed and at risk.