Winter worries

[Sierra2015]

Neither adds heat. They merely slow down the loss of heat.
We digress.
A decent sleeping system, adequate bag-supplementary clothing-sufficient ground insulation, is only the tip of the iceberg.
Sierra2015,
Have you given any thought to shelter and a decent backpack to tote all of your stuff?


In addition to using the twice yearly REI 20% discount coupons, I found these at Campmor right now:


Thermarest RidgeRest SOLite Sleeping Pad Irregular




http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___11718


Thermarest 40th Anniversary Edition Self Inflating Sleeping Pad




http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___40089


Total R value: 6.8
Total price: $100 plus shipping.


Shop the For Sale Forum here. I saw two Western Mountaineering bags listed today. They may not be right for you, but it proves that they do come up for sale.
Have fun!


Wayne

A solo tent from Six Moon Designs. (Depends on what's in stock when I'm ready to buy.)


As for a bag... I think I'm going to do that last. I have several bookmarked, but in the end my base weight is going to determine if I can get a pack that carries 30 pounds or less. I might need a heavier pack to accommodate some excess things my dog needs. She's 65 pounds and while she's kind of shaggy she just has a single coat.

For her I'm going to get a Ruff Wear detachable pack, a rain jacket that covers her and her pack, a little bed for when it's cold (I'm thinking a simple fleece square with an emergency blanket underneath), and some nutrient dense good quality food. Booties too... Though she hates them. And a few other things.

I did a simple spreadsheet and it looks like I'll be okay.... But I still don't want to have to take a loss on a backpack.


I'm completely worried about hiking boots/shoes. My toes always get cramped and my heel ends up having too much room. And the arch is never high enough. And the roof of the shoe is never high enough.

I bought some cork hiking poles a couple months back. Nice things. Too short for me. -_- I got the woman's version and I should have gotten a mans. I'm taller than most girls. :/

[Sierra2015]

LOL. Only if you agree I can steal a few friendly forkfuls of your dinner. You LA types - always negotiating.

Compromising, Dogwood. Compromising.

[SOBO_Pace]

The trick is getting the feathers into the baffles and not all over the room. I tried to restuff a baffle in an old bag and what I mess I made. Feathers everywhere. I guess there is a way to use a vacum cleaner to suck the feathers in to the tube and then blow them out into the baffles in the bag. Or you could wet them down which will make them bunch up into clumps or do the process inside a tent to contain the feathers.

I think I'll do it in a contained space. Like a shower stall or an enclosed bathtub. Funnel it in like I'm decorating a cake.[/QUOTE]

I used a shop vac and put a coffee filter on the back end of the hose to keep from sucking the down through.
First I weighed out the amount of down I wanted per baffle. Then sucked it up, reversed the pipe and blew it in.
Of course I figured this out on my second attempt but worked very well.

[Drybones]

The trick is getting the feathers into the baffles and not all over the room. I tried to restuff a baffle in an old bag and what I mess I made. Feathers everywhere. I guess there is a way to use a vacum cleaner to suck the feathers in to the tube and then blow them out into the baffles in the bag. Or you could wet them down which will make them bunch up into clumps or do the process inside a tent to contain the feathers.

I had a 20 degree REI bag that I wanted to get to a true 20 degree rating. I cut a small slit in each baffle and used a small piece of PVC pipe to squash down into and insert into the babble and then patched the hole with Kenyon tape. Worked well, I've tested it to 19 degrees. Dont recommend this for a new bag. BTW, watch for sales, got the wife a good 15 degree, 750 down, 2 lb bag for $134 a while back.

[Venchka]

PLEASE explain how reducing convective heat transfer.... is ANY different than.... slowing down the loss of heat in that you felt the need to reword what I said.

The word "add" implies that an inert object, in this case a liner, generates (adds) heat. Not my words.
No worries. I'll quit. It's all good.

Wayne

[George]

However, I do worry about testing out the SOL emer bivvy for exactly the reason you stated: creating a moisture trap. With the tarp I can just open it up a little bit. The bivvy makes it a little more complicated. I'm hoping to test it out and see what I can do about it on the Pacific Crest Trail. I've got a long time to prepare for the AT.

what you do is pull the flap of the bivy inside the face hole of the mummy bag and tuck it under your chin - that way the moisture from respiration stays outside

[Venchka]

An overlooked idea for extending the comfort rating of any sleep system:
Hot water bottles. Common 1 liter water bottles filled with hot (not boiling-home water heater hot) water and placed inside the sleeping bag. 1 at the feet and another at the upper torso. Old school. Simple. Cheap. Easy.
Be warm.

Wayne

[RedBeerd]

Why not just buy a bulky, heavy, and cheap 0 degree synthetic bag? You don't need to hold onto it for long then swap out for your 30. Spend the $160 on an xtherm or buy a, once again, bulky, heavy, and cheap 5R rated pad. You don't want to skimp on these things keeping you warm. If you're gonna do it, do it right, IMO.

[Snowleopard]

If money is tight don't spend a $1000 on sleeping bags and pads!
Check out sales, especially as spring approaches. Add EMS.com and REI to places to look for sales (EMS mountainlight bags are pretty good and a bargain only when they're on sale; I got a -20F bag for a little over $200 on sale). Check out Craigslist and ebay (be careful though) and used stuff on the forums.

A double bag or quilt over a bag can work at the cost of bulk and weight. If you get that 30F bag, a somewhat oversized synthetic quilt over the bag would work but could be drafty if you're not careful. If you can sew at all, a DIY synthetic quilt is easy but a down quilt is a lot harder. You could also get a 0F synthetic bag (cheaper, heavy, BULKY).

A cheap blue foam pad from Walmart over your zlite would be warm enough; if you can find a cheap thermarest air mattress to put on top of the zlite, it would be more comfortable.

[Del Q]

Lots of great input...........I have a 25 degree Mont Bell and a thermarest, bought a Western Mountaineering liner, light, like sleeping in an oven bag, definitely makes a significant difference. I also sleep with a merino wool balaclava which also helps, both in keeping with goal for light pack.

I tent, what I try to find is a spot where I can pile up 1 foot or more of leaves (or pine needles), provides a good amount of insulation, in the morning LNT, spresad them back out making the area look as if nobody was there.

My legs tent to stay warm with icebreaker 200 merino wool long johns, I wear several layers up top, icebreaker merino wool tee shirt, Go Lite wind shirt also helps to retain heat and is very light.

[Prime Time]

I started my hike on March 27 last year with a 30 degree bag and a silk liner and a Therm-o-rest neoair pad and it was fine down to about 26 degrees if I wrapped my down jacket around my torso while I slept and wore my capeline base layer, wool socks and a fleece layer. On nights that went below that I was uncomfortaby cold but not in danger. Under 20 degrees would have been a big problem but it never got that cold. Starting March 1, you might have that. What I'd do if I didn't want to buy an expensive second bag is buy a $150 Jacks-are-better 45 degree down quilt (14 oz.) and wrap it around your down bag on really cold nights. After Pearisburg VA, you can send home your 30 degree bag and just keep your quilt and liner from Pearisburg to Glenncliff, NH. Then send for your 30 degree bag and send home your quilt.

[Bronk]

I have slept in my 30 degree bag down to 5 degrees and been warm if I slept with all of my layers on:

short sleeved tshirt
long sleeved tshirt
long sleeved fleece
fleece vest
knit hat
gloves
wool socks

[kennyxedge]

You can definitely make it work if you sleep with layers. I started on April 1 a couple years ago, and we had a few nights below freezing and my 35 degree bag was plenty warm enough while I was wearing my fleece and baselayer.

[Another Kevin]

I'm of the opinion that you really need two pads in the winter, and at least one has to be foam. The other can be inflatable - ideally self-inflating so that it has at least some loft if it springs a leak. I sleep comfortably in near-zero with a blue foam under my ProLite. I've even been known to layer a piece of Reflectix with all that. The blue foam is light and cheap. It's bulky, but on the A-T it can ride lashed outside the pack. The high-R-value pads all seem to be inflatable, and an inflatable pad needs a backup in the winter.

[BarFight]

looks like you have a good solution with sewing your own quilt, but I want to chime in that 1000 bucks for a new sleeping set up seems really steep. I'd say 500 if you bought a really nice synthetic bag. Sure they weigh more, but you wouldn't be using it for the whole hike and it wouldn't get damp as easily as a down bag. When I hiked I started mid-march, had to get off for two weeks in Franklin so it was more like an April start. It was freezing in the mountains in March, if I did it again I would start with a 10 degree bag and/or bring a down jacket and pants for night. I replaced my crappy 3/4 pad for a Big Agnes full-length one right away, I'm a side sleeper so I was in hell with the thin pad anyway. The full length pad, 20 degree bag and sleeping in every layer I had got me through the first months.

[Sierra2015]

I was talking about a summer bag, a winter bag, and a high R rated pad. Plus tax.

That's 300+400+200 and then like a hundred in tax.

I'm not doing that... Haha. That's what I don't wan to do!

[Sierra2015]

How likely is it that a pad will spring a leak?

[lonehiker]

How likely is it that a pad will spring a leak?

I carry a cheap Walmart closed cell pad (cut to fit) that I use under my Neo Air. Have never had a leak but always carry the repair kit. If you don't want to carry extra pad just be careful with your site selection. After laying down ground cloth feel for sharp objects. I do this even though I use the second pad. Helps prevent holes in tent floor.

[Abner]

Sierra, do not worry...there are plenty of places you can get a warm bag for less...check out this link to backpackinglight.com gear swap. Every day hundreds of used pieces of top of the line hiking equipment are put up for sale. http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-...hread_id=87622 The link I just shared is typical. Great 15 degree sleeping bags---two of them for 250 apiece. There are better deals out there, too. I've been wanting to get into winter camping lately and just purchased a -40 degree Gerry down filled sleeping bag on EBAY for 93 dollars. Any bag that is currently -30 degrees and new is at least 650 or 700 dollars. So you can find what you are looking for, but I would seriously start on Backpackinglight.com the "gear swap" and watch what comes up there for several days. It is truly remarkable. Best wishes. Additionally, don't worry about 30 degrees at night in the woods. It's really quite wonderful. Beautiful really. Just keep those hands, head, ears, warm!

[bpowell1014]

I'm wondering if you could use the 30 degree bag but sleep with the bag itself inside an emergency bivvy sack. Does anyone here think that would get you an extra 10 degrees in warmth? Bivvy sacks are comparatively cheaper than buying a new sleeping bag. Anyone ever tried this?