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  1. #1

    Default wieghed my hammock + tarp...

    This is my homemade speer type- and homemade hex tarp.
    weighed on a humble 20gram kitchen scale.

    sleeping bag: 1660 grams
    pack 50L: 1200 grams
    tarp (in tarpskins, cordage): 800 grams
    hammock (in tubes, webbing, bugnet): 1440 grams

    big 4 (big three if you count hammock and tarp as one tent):
    1660 + 1200 + 800 + 1440
    5100 grams, 5.1 kg or 180 ounces.

    Hammock and tarp by themselves:
    2240 grams or 80 ounces

    My plans: get my hands on some even lighter hammock and bugnet material... move on from the bag...

    titanium
    just call me TH
    woman with altitude

  2. #2
    Registered User Dances with Mice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by titanium_hiker
    This is my homemade speer type- and homemade hex tarp. weighed on a humble 20gram kitchen scale.
    You wouldn’t believe how many folk are handicapped by the ill-named English measurement system. It should be called the “obsolete idiotic American system” but apparently names stick longer than bad habits. The following conversions are provided gratis:

    sleeping bag: 1660 grams – 3.5 pounds
    pack 50L: 1200 grams – 2.6 pounds
    tarp (in tarpskins, cordage): 800 grams – 1.8 pounds
    hammock (in tubes, webbing, bugnet): 1440 grams
    - 3.1 pounds
    big 4 (big three if you count hammock and tarp as one tent):
    1660 + 1200 + 800 + 1440
    5100 grams, 5.1 kg or 180 ounces. – 11.25 pounds

    Hammock and tarp by themselves:
    2240 grams or 80 ounces – 5 pounds

    Do be aware that the total is often greater than the sum of the measured parts. Rounding errors accumulate rather than diminish.
    Last edited by Dances with Mice; 09-09-2005 at 19:13.
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  3. #3

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    at least I provided both where it mattered.. I'm fluent in both, and nuts to you if you aren't ! (google is your friend)

    and another thing- temps. 0 freeze and 100 water boil- makes sense. farenhieght (harder to spell too) makes no sense.



    seriously though- what do people's commercial and other versions weigh?

    titanium
    Last edited by titanium_hiker; 09-10-2005 at 12:06.
    just call me TH
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    GoLite Speed Backpack (3600ci) - 27 oz w/o Platypus and extra straps

    Hennessy Hammock (UL BP A-Sym) - 20 oz w/o fly and w/ Python Skins.

    JRB 8x8 Tarp - 11 oz w/ guylines, sling-shot tensioners, 2 Walmart stakes.

    JRB 3-Season Set - 42 oz w/ connectors

    Big 3 Total - 100 oz - 6 lbs 4 oz including Pack, Shelter, Bag.

    http://www.geocities.com/jwj32542/GearList.html
    Last edited by Just Jeff; 09-10-2005 at 13:16.

  5. #5

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    dang it... gonna need to work on the hammock I reckon. pretty cool jeff.

    titanium
    just call me TH
    woman with altitude

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    Registered User SteveJ's Avatar
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    Default Big 3 weight, and hello...

    Hi, all. New here - not a thru-hiker, but have done some section hiking, and would love to do a thru-hike one day...

    have been working on my pack weight over the last year or so, have come up with the following commercial/homemade solutions:

    GG Vapor Trail: 32 oz
    HH bp ultralight, with stock tarp, snakeskins, a couple of titanium stakes: 34.3 oz
    20 degree homemade down quilt (www.thru-hiker.com kit) - 22 oz.
    total - 88.3 ozs, 5.5 lbs.

    total 'base' weight, including everything but food, fuel, water, and clothing: 9.23 lbs. - not 'ultra-lite', but certainly lighter than the 50 lb pack I used to carry when my oldest son first joined Boy Scouts!

    Steve

  7. #7

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    there are only two things in my gear that I have specifically bought- sleeping bag and backpack. I can cut some oz's on the hammock by going with even lighter material than I have now... and maybe I'll make myself a quilt (or maybe go JRB) but the pack- it's here to stay. (Andes 50 Outdoor DOITE)

    titanium
    Last edited by titanium_hiker; 09-10-2005 at 17:04.
    just call me TH
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveJ
    GG Vapor Trail: 32 oz
    HH bp ultralight, with stock tarp, snakeskins, a couple of titanium stakes: 34.3 oz
    20 degree homemade down quilt (www.thru-hiker.com kit) - 22 oz.
    total - 88.3 ozs, 5.5 lbs.
    SteveJ,

    What do you use for bottom-side insulation?

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    Quote Originally Posted by titanium_hiker
    at least I provided both where it mattered.. I'm fluent in both, and nuts to you if you aren't ! (google is your friend)

    and another thing- temps. 0 freeze and 100 water boil- makes sense. farenhieght (harder to spell too) makes no sense.



    seriously though- what do people's commercial and other versions weigh?

    titanium
    i think there's another thread here, or maybe over at Hiking HQ, that deals with people's 'big 3' weights.

    i use a HH Backbacker Ultralight Asym. Stock weight was 31 oz. i've added two small pockets to the tarp to hold the tie outs, a pocket inside to hold a book and water, two mini-biners to hang stuff from inside, snakeskins, 4 aluminum stakes, and two 150 lb.-rated aluminum "no-climbing use" caribiners to hang it with, and it comes to about 36 oz total. if i switch the stock tarp (6 oz) to an 8 x 10 tarp (13 oz), it adds 7 oz.

    pack is a 20oz golite gust. i added two mesh water/fuel bottle holders to the sides...

    bag is a 20 oz Western Mountaineering Caribou (35* bag). i added some fleece to one side of a stuff sack for a pillow and it weighs 22 oz total.

  10. #10
    Registered User SteveJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just Jeff
    SteveJ,

    What do you use for bottom-side insulation?
    hi, jeff. depends on the temps - and I guess I should have included bottom-side insulation in my weights...

    down to about 60, I 'go bare' - on insulation, that is... at temps above 70 (which I really don't do much of..), will bring a silk liner, lower temps, may bring a lightweight 40deg down bag.

    what I want is a down underquilt for lower temps, but budgetary issues have kept me from making/purchasing this so far...

    for now:

    * from ~30 to 60 or so, I take a wide target blue pad - ~8 oz. have found this, with my quilt, and clothing, to be adequate for this temp spread. (assuming no wind...) I like the target pad because it's wide enough to wrap around the shoulders...
    * have camped at Shining Rock on a ridgeline in December, with temps in the mid-teens and winds gusting (30 mph?), with a target blue pad and full-length TR guidelight, with homemade quilt, a silk liner and a down jacket for backup. I ended up using the jacket as a pillow - was wearing long johns and had 'handwarmers' in my socks.... Getting in the hammock with the pad and TR is a little tricky, but I find that once I go to sleep in my hammock, I don't move again 'til I wake up. I figure I may have been 1.5 to 2 pounds heavier hammocking than tarping on this trip - but really appreciated the 10+ hours of sound sleep, and being able to raise my head to watch the sun come up!
    Last edited by SteveJ; 09-10-2005 at 22:08.

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    Titanium Hiker

    Here's what i was talking about... it was on this site. the thread is called "What's the weight of your BIG FOUR?"

    it had some pretty good info.

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    Default 'obsolete idiotic american system'

    [QUOTE=Dances with Mice]You wouldn’t believe how many folk are handicapped by the ill-named English measurement system. It should be called the “obsolete idiotic American system” but apparently names stick longer than bad habits. The following conversions are provided gratis:

    Actually the French measurement system is obsolete--an anchronistic holdover from the Napoleonic era. Even Napoleon himself 'temporarily' suspended its implementation. It was brought back compulsorily under the weak King of the French Louis Phillipe. The rest of the world does (and should) speak English. It should also use our ('English measurement system') system of weights and measures. The world would probably do so except for the extreme egotistical nature of the French. But then the French have conveniently forgotten (twice!) that but for us Americans they would be speaking German now!
    First things first!

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    SteveJ,

    Synthetic underquilts are pretty cheap to make...get Primaloft and DWR from thru-hiker.com...you can probably get the materials for $50-$70 depending on thickness.

    Or get an undercover like the JRB Weathershield and just stick a sleeping bag inside it...if you adjust it right, it'll hold the bag against the bottom of the hammock without compressing it. Check www.garlington.biz for Taco and Bag O' Feathers directions, too.

    Or get a SPE if you like using pads...cheaper than the other options. It'll keep your stacked pads on top of each other, and you can use a 19" pad and still insulate your hips and shoulders. www.speerhammocks.com or my homemade version at http://www.geocities.com/jwj32542/HomemadeGearSPE.html . I didn't like using pads in a hammock until I tried the SPE.

    Just some ideas...you may have already considered them.

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    Registered User gumby's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Rifleman]
    Quote Originally Posted by Dances with Mice
    You wouldn’t believe how many folk are handicapped by the ill-named English measurement system. It should be called the “obsolete idiotic American system” but apparently names stick longer than bad habits. The following conversions are provided gratis:

    Actually the French measurement system is obsolete--an anchronistic holdover from the Napoleonic era. Even Napoleon himself 'temporarily' suspended its implementation. It was brought back compulsorily under the weak King of the French Louis Phillipe. The rest of the world does (and should) speak English. It should also use our ('English measurement system') system of weights and measures. The world would probably do so except for the extreme egotistical nature of the French. But then the French have conveniently forgotten (twice!) that but for us Americans they would be speaking German now!
    What an egotistical, self-centered, idiotic, lamebrained...(feel free to add, you know where I'm going) view. Have you ever used the "Metric" system? If so then you would know that it is so very much easier to used than the system of pounds, ounces, etc. It is the same system as our money system is based on...that is the number 10.
    A bit of history...Congress authorized the metric system to be used in the US in (drum roll please) 1866. Here is the link http://ts.nist.gov/ts/htdocs/200/202/lc1136a.htm

    For those that don't know how to use it thanks for the conversions. I personally have been using it since the 70's as I was in the US Air Force and it is used around the world. When I moved to Berlin Germany in 1983 I was glad that I knew it, it made life so much easier. Just think what would happen if your Doctor didn't know how to use the Metric system, you could over or under dose on meds. Think about it...if the largest organization in the world (medical) uses the Metric system, wouldn't it make sence for all to use it.

    My 2 cents worth (that's 2 100ths of a dollar)

    The other Lone Wolf

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    Registered User Dances with Mice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lone wolf
    ... I personally have been using it since the 70's as I was in the US Air Force and it is used around the world. When I moved to Berlin Germany in 1983 I was glad that I knew it, it made life so much easier...
    I was in an engineering unit in Germany in the early '80's. I was often sent out on advanced scouting missions - like would the village of Ost Oberunterbergensteinhof be a good place to build a bridge, blow a bridge, build a latrine, set up a POL or water point, whatever. My directions would all be in kilometers, right? And the odometer of my Dodge pickup that I depended on to follow the directions? Take a guess, take a wild guess...

    I thought that was bad until I left the Army and got into real world engineering. My first project was to apply a treatment measured in milligrams per square meter to a product with specs written in ounces per square yard! Fortunately the Corporation converted entirely to metric soon after. But now I can do conversions in my head either way within 2 or 3 significant figures.

    I still haven't measured my latest incarnation of hammock/fly, bag, and pack yet. I owe Titanium that. My scale? Measures in ounces. Hmph!

    -
    Fair warning: don't get me started on Farenheit / Celsius. Best to avoid that like the topic of Sports Juggling.
    Last edited by Dances with Mice; 09-11-2005 at 12:59.
    You never turned around to see the frowns
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    When they all did tricks for you.

  16. #16

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    heheheheh. sorry guys for all the CONTROVERSY! I like the french. My fav. cooking book gives both (it's kinda old- but designed to be easy- for mums with bubs) and so, yeah. My scale wieghs in both.

    Anyway, this is a thread about the lightness of hammocks + rest of necesary shelter... so forget the other stuff... I just copied and pasted from something else I was working on.

    I am seriously considering a JRB 3 season set- great review Jeff btw. I haven't got under insulation worked out yet (homemade and cheap)... but over AND under insulation for ~ 1kg (compared to 1.6kg for JUST my sleeping bag) ok... now I just need to get the cash... for now I'll be happy with backyard sleeping and a garlington type thing.

    OH yeah- for you hopeless incompetents : 1kg : 1.6kg == 2.20462262 pounds : 3.52739619 pounds ... ==
    35oz : 57 oz

    thanks for the responses guys...

    titanium
    just call me TH
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dances with Mice
    I was in an engineering unit in Germany in the early '80's. I was often sent out on advanced scouting missions - like would the village of Ost Oberunterbergensteinhof be a good place to build a bridge, blow a bridge, build a latrine, set up a POL or water point, whatever. My directions would all be in kilometers, right? And the odometer of my Dodge pickup that I depended on to follow the directions? Take a guess, take a wild guess...

    I thought that was bad until I left the Army and got into real world engineering. My first project was to apply a treatment measured in milligrams per square meter to a product with specs written in ounces per square yard! Fortunately the Corporation converted entirely to metric soon after. But now I can do conversions in my head either way within 2 or 3 significant figures.

    I still haven't measured my latest incarnation of hammock/fly, bag, and pack yet. I owe Titanium that. My scale? Measures in ounces. Hmph!

    -
    Fair warning: don't get me started on Farenheit / Celsius. Best to avoid that like the topic of Sports Juggling.
    Yeah, we had a combo of german and US vehicles. I got used to (read had to) convert miles to klicks or vice versa in my head. (.6 or 1.6)

    Temp conversions are a bit harder though for a very rough approximation divide F by 2, get you to within a few degrees. for C multiply by 2, still a bit off but in a pinch it works.

    I bought a digital kitchen scale at Wally World that measures in Lb/OZ and Grams/Kilos. I originally bought it for making candles. Now I have another use.

    Later friend

    Lone Wolf

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    Default faulty logic

    [QUOTE=lone wolf] What an egotistical, self-centered, idiotic, lamebrained...(feel free to add, you know where I'm going) view.

    Ad hominem. Robert J. Sternberg's second critical thinking trap (Sternberg, 2002). Let's not allow the dialectic to degenerate into name-calling.

    Have you ever used the "Metric" system?

    Yes I have used the metric system when traveling in Canada & Mexico and when I was a member of the U.S. Army.

    If so then you would know that it is so very much easier to used than the system of pounds, ounces, etc. It is the same system as our money

    Irrelevant conclusion. My argument wasn't whether the metric system is 'easier' or 'harder.' My argument is that since we are the dominant power and our language is already used by all then the use of our system of weights and measures by all logically follows. France has erroneously been accorded 'Great Power' status for almost two centuries now and its attempts to mold the rest of us into what they feel is best should be justly resisted (even though it won't be due to emotionalism).
    system is based on...that is the number 10.
    A bit of history...Congress authorized the metric system to be used in the US in (drum roll please) 1866. Here is the link http://ts.nist.gov/ts/htdocs/200/202/lc1136a.htm

    Researched that link and others prior to posting the previous post. You forgot to mention that the U.S. Congress did not make the metric system compulsory in the United States

    For those that don't know how to use it thanks for the conversions. I personally have been using it since the 70's as I was in the US Air Force and it is used around the world. When I moved to Berlin Germany in 1983 I was glad that I knew it, it made life so much easier. Just think what would happen if your Doctor didn't know how to use the Metric system, you could over or under dose on meds.

    Composition fallacy. Just because it was true for you since the 1970s and the metric system is used by physicians it doesn't necessarily follow that what is true of parts of a whole is necessarily true of the whole itself.

    Think about it...if the largest organization in the world (medical) uses the Metric system, wouldn't it make sence for all to use it.

    Irrelevant conclusion. Just because 'everybody's' doing it doesn't mean that I or you or anyone else in the United States should. However, compulsory useage of the metric system will come to pass here in the U.S. and we all will be the lesser for it. The United States has other 'fish to fry.' See T.R. Reid's 'The United States of Europe' and Philip Bobbitt's Time magazine essay 'Get Ready for the Next Long War.'
    http://www.time.com/time/covers/1101020909/abobbit.html
    Bobbitt's thesis is more fully developed in his book 'The Shield of Achilles:
    War, Peace, and the Course of History' (2002).

    My 2 cents worth (that's 2 100ths of a dollar)

    That's what I appreciate about Whiteblaze--we all get to express our opinions.
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    R.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rifleman
    My argument is that since we are the dominant power and our language is already used by all then the use of our system of weights and measures by all logically follows.
    And yet...

    Quote Originally Posted by rifleman
    Just because 'everybody's' doing it doesn't mean that I or you or anyone else in the United States should.
    So just because everyone else is doing it doesn't mean we should, but just because we're doing it means everyone else should? Whose logic are you calling fallacious?

    Hrm...are you saying that during Napoleon's conquest of Europe (one long hike under arms), France's "Great Power" status was erroneous? And today, France's "Great Power" status comes from the fact that they have nukes, have great economic and political influence with our allies, and are one of the leaders in creating and exporting military technology. Whether we like it or not, their status is hardly erroneous.

    And regarding the first quote above, your conclusion is anything but logical because which language system we use is independent from which mathematical system we use. My logical conclusion is that we should adopt what works best and thereby progress more quickly, regardless of any previous connections with an antiquated system of weights and measures.

    Rifleman - more like Rocket. All thrust and no vector.

    Though I gotta say...if the AT clubs start posting mileage in Km I'll have a lot more to think about on my hikes, since the guidebooks are all still in miles!

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    Default Conversions

    Sometimes it is not a problem, like when it is minus 40 degrees. Everybody knows it is dang cold.

    Youngblood

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