Great Smoky Mountain Weirdness??

[HooKooDooKu]

... I really dislike the GSMNP system, much more so than any other wilderness permit system than I know of...

Apparently you have never attempted to backpack in the Grand Canyon.

Generally speaking, the GSMNP system isn't that bad... and like any system, it's only as good at the people utilizing it. After all, there ARE 'rouge' hikers out there... those that camp in GSMNP without a permit... and there's no amount of "rules" you can put in place there is going to accommodate all the stupid stuff people do.

And you'll notice a common theme to many of these "what if" questions... "hiker arrives at 10pm/late/etc".

The lesson to take from that is that you should try to plan your days so that there is little chance you will be arriving "late" to a shelter.

And for thru hikers and section hikers alike... arrive at shelters at a decent hour, come expecting the shelter to be full (i.e. have a back-up plan such as a tent), and simply practice common curtsy... and everything will work out fine.

[Starchild]

So if a shelter accommodates eight people and seven spots are taken, with gear taking up what could be the eight spot, and one arrives at 10pm, it is required to disturb the occupants to make room or face a possible fine the next morning for tenting. I really dislike the GSMNP system, much more so than any other wilderness permit system than I know of. And that's one reason I haven't backpacked there and probably will not except on an AT thru hike when I'll make every effort to hike through the park as quickly as possible to minimize the number of nights within that jurisdiction (which perhaps is the goal - lowering use).

This happens quite often, not necessarily in the Smokys, but it is not uncommon for a late commer to be squeezed in by reshuffling gear, usually goes very smoothly.

[Coffee]

Apparently you have never attempted to backpack in the Grand Canyon.

It so happens that I have backpacked in the Grand Canyon. I spent three nights below the rim last June. Yes, the Grand Canyon is restrictive just like GSMNP but the key difference for me is that the restriction was on where I could tent camp. Yes, if I arrived late at a campground the risk would be that I would have a less attractive camp site. Yes, I could not make spontaneous changes to my itinerary. All of that I didn't like. But I didn't face the issue of potential conflict with other hikers regarding a 3x8 foot piece of ground within a communal shelter space and all the associated issues that go along with it.

The GSMNP policy may be justified and I'm not qualified to say whether it is or isn't, but I do have the right to say that I don't like it and will therefore avoid the AT within the park unless on a thru hike. My opinion. Others may have different opinions. It is a free country.

[flemdawg1]

The GSMNP policy may be justified and I'm not qualified to say whether it is or isn't, but I do have the right to say that I don't like it and will therefore avoid the AT within the park unless on a thru hike. My opinion. Others may have different opinions. It is a free country.

Your loss, it's a georgeous hike.

The whining about GSMNP's shelter reservation/permit system is well overblown. There isn't a ranger hiding behind every tree waiting to write a ticket. The shelters are usually not overflowing (many folks cancel and their spots go unused), and besides some snoring and people leaving their stuff on the tables (pet peeve of mine), I've never had a single incident at a GSM shelter. The beauty outweighs the PITA immensely.

[Francis Sawyer]

Folks, let's not over-analyze this. Just go with the flow and put one foot in front of the other.Peoples gonna have heart attacks worrying about silly stuff.

[Coffee]

Your loss, it's a georgeous hike.

The whining about GSMNP's shelter reservation/permit system is well overblown. There isn't a ranger hiding behind every tree waiting to write a ticket. The shelters are usually not overflowing (many folks cancel and their spots go unused), and besides some snoring and people leaving their stuff on the tables (pet peeve of mine), I've never had a single incident at a GSM shelter. The beauty outweighs the PITA immensely.

You might be correct, but I am not whining, just stating my personal preference regarding permit systems.

[Gambit McCrae]

Coffee leads to heart attacks

[superman]

Take the BMT through the Smokies. You'll be glad you did. It's way better than the AT.

[JumpMaster Blaster]

There are plenty of campsites in the GSMNP. If you don't want to stay in a shelter, dont' hike the AT, there is over 800 miles of fabulous trails in the park. 90% of which are much better than the AT.

The OP wasn't about hiking the rest of the GSMNP, it was about section hiking the AT THRU the park. Right now I couldn't care less about the other trails in the park-I'm only concerned with the White Blazes.

[Ox97GaMe]

So if a shelter accommodates eight people and seven spots are taken, with gear taking up what could be the eight spot, and one arrives at 10pm, it is required to disturb the occupants to make room or face a possible fine the next morning for tenting. I really dislike the GSMNP system, much more so than any other wilderness permit system than I know of. And that's one reason I haven't backpacked there and probably will not except on an AT thru hike when I'll make every effort to hike through the park as quickly as possible to minimize the number of nights within that jurisdiction (which perhaps is the goal - lowering use).

Coffee,
Most of the discussion here on Whiteblaze references the shelters along the AT. The majority of the GSMNP has backcountry campsites (not shelters). All but 3 of the actual shelters within the park are along the AT. If staying in a shelter is your primary issue, look for alternate routes through the park. As has been suggested, you can hike the BMT through the park. There is only 1 shelter along that trail and you can plan your trip in such a way as to hit it at lunchtime rather than for your night's stay.

There are over 100 campsites and 850+ miles of trails other than the AT to explore in the GSMNP. Try not to judge the entire park based on what you have heard and or presume regarding just 12 shelters.

[Gambit McCrae]

+1

Coffee,
Most of the discussion here on Whiteblaze references the shelters along the AT. The majority of the GSMNP has backcountry campsites (not shelters). All but 3 of the actual shelters within the park are along the AT. If staying in a shelter is your primary issue, look for alternate routes through the park. As has been suggested, you can hike the BMT through the park. There is only 1 shelter along that trail and you can plan your trip in such a way as to hit it at lunchtime rather than for your night's stay.
.

There are over 100 campsites and 850+ miles of trails other than the AT to explore in the GSMNP. Try not to judge the entire park based on what you have heard and or presume regarding just 12 shelters

[Alligator]

The OP wasn't about hiking the rest of the GSMNP, it was about section hiking the AT THRU the park. Right now I couldn't care less about the other trails in the park-I'm only concerned with the White Blazes.

Thrus and sectioners can avoid several shelters by using campsites on side trails throughout the park. Consider using sites 9, 10, 26, 68, 29, 37, and even Big Creek. East of Newfound Gap would be the one place that lacks close options. So you might have to stay in one shelter.

[magneto]

So what if I just walk off the trail about 100 feet, take off my pack, lean against it and take an extended "rest" between 8 PM and 5 AM, then keep moving when I am rested?

[flemdawg1]

Good luck walking 100 ft, the AT in GSMNP are usually on ridgetops. walking 100 ft would normally accompany a 300 ft drop off. I doubt a ranger, if you were found, would think your little scheme was so cute and you'd probably be ticketed.

[Coffee]

+1




There are over 100 campsites and 850+ miles of trails other than the AT to explore in the GSMNP. Try not to judge the entire park based on what you have heard and or presume regarding just 12 shelters

Fair enough. I have been to the park before but only for day hiking. I will say that I was primarily commenting on the shelter policy along the AT, although that was not clear in my original response.

[Rain Man]

So what if I just walk off the trail about 100 feet, take off my pack, lean against it and take an extended "rest" between 8 PM and 5 AM, then keep moving when I am rested?

Reputation is what you do when others are watching. Character is what you do when no one is watching.

Rain Man

.

[HooKooDooKu]

So what if I just walk off the trail about 100 feet, take off my pack, lean against it and take an extended "rest" between 8 PM and 5 AM, then keep moving when I am rested?

To the best of my knowledge, there's no rules against night-hiking... so as long as you don't do anything that looks like "camping" (such as setting up a tent/tarp/hammock), I suspect you'd be alright.

But then again, I can't find anything in the rules and regulations that defines "camping"... so if caught by a LEO, you are at his mercy as to what he would determine "camping" is.

[flemdawg1]

You might be correct, but I am not whining, just stating my personal preference regarding permit systems.

Whining-complain in a feeble or petulant way.

[TNhiker]

To the best of my knowledge, there's no rules against night-hiking...

one of my best hikes of the last few years was going up alum cave trail starting at 2 am......

surprisingly, there was no one else on the trail........

the only downside was getting woken up by the ranger when i was at the leconte shelter at 11 am.........and i had a permit.......


but my guess is that if one takes a "rest" on leaning against a tree between 8 pm and 5 am----they would get a ticket........

that's more than a rest period and the person who posed this question should be well aware of that......

[magneto]

Kind of like Joe Pesci's character in Goodfells - "Ranger: What are you doing here, lying in the weeds? Me: I'm resting! Raner: Here you are resting?"