River to River Trail questions

[tauwillow]

@Tauwillow
QUESTION
For the river-to-river trail my friend and I are looking to do a portion of it - something that could be done in 3-4 days. What would you recommend?

Thank you for the advice about the Knobstone trail! Its very helpful. We were hoping to do a shorter trail next summer, and were considering this one, but it sounds like it might be a bit beyond us right now. We do plan to thru hike the Ozark Trail in 2016.

You guys hike considerably faster than we do, so I think you might be able to hike Alto Pass to Fern Clyffe in that time span. I strongly feel this is the prettiest and most interesting section of the trail, and would go there again in a heartbeat. We went in early summer, so I don't know if the things I liked the most will still shine, but I'd take the risk.

[andyg]

I just finished a thru hike of the R2R on Sunday, May 3rd, from East to West. I had read the Tau's blog before I left, great stuff, and the two trip reports on trailjournals. I would think High Knob or Eddyville westward would be your best bet for a 3 or 4 day trip. Garden of the Gods and Lusk Creek are beautiful and not to be missed. My favorite was Max Creek, though. Very lightly traveled and wild area.

Like the others have said, the trail is very inconsistently marked and can vary considerably in quality. I found myself slogging through ankle deep muddy horse trails for hours at a time a few days. I had a GPS with Voight's guidebook and decent maps that I brought, and picked up a good map for the middle section at High Knob from the friendly JoJo. Even so, I did get lost twice outside of Elizabethtown before High Knob, there are a lot of illegal ATV trails and unmapped local trails. It would have been very difficult to do without the GPS.

The weather was great, it didn't rain much and I never had a problem finding water. You will cross many, many intermittent streams not mentioned in the guidebook. I think it would have been better do after the leaves were off, but there was still some great views and the variety of rock formations you pop up on is astounding, even with all the green.

The section of the trail from Makanda to Highway 51, 1.74 miles according to the guidebook, no longer exists. I found very scant traces of it in the small valley it goes through, but mainly you'll be going down and up through thick brush. Apparently a storm knocked down many of the larger trees a few years back and allowed the underbrush to get thick. I saw a blaze on a large tree that was laying on it's side.

All in all it was a great trip and I would certainly do it again.

[tauwillow]

The section of the trail from Makanda to Highway 51, 1.74 miles according to the guidebook, no longer exists. I found very scant traces of it in the small valley it goes through, but mainly you'll be going down and up through thick brush. Apparently a storm knocked down many of the larger trees a few years back and allowed the underbrush to get thick. I saw a blaze on a large tree that was laying on it's side.

We had similar issues with that portion of the trail, and I think we even saw the same tree.

Thanks for the kind words about the blog! We had a great time putting it all together. For anyone considering the trip - we now have maps and the GPS files we used available on the R2R page of our site.

[Just Bill]

I have a friend that lives in Makanda- since Tau's trip I have talked to him more about this trail and conditions.
They've had a series of bad storms over the last few years- inland hurricane, ice storms, and other wind events.
Bottom line- the budget is shot down there and they don't have the resources to clean up. It sounds like hunters and horseman have been repairing what they can as that tourism money is critical for most of the area- but the trail as a whole is still in rough shape.

Even when in good shape- the river to river to creek to stream to stream to creek to river to... well you get the idea... it's wet.

I'd recommend a late fall (beware deer hunting season) trip if anyone is thinking of it.

That said- Sounds like Tauwillow has the best trail guide going these days! Nice work young lady.

[ScottGraham]

About a month ago, I did work on clearing that section. I'd recommend not hiking it until I get the East end cleared and the short section from Eastern Star to the town. That said, it is still better than hiking the Makanda road, which has nothing outboard of the guardrails at some points. The white lines are painted on the edge of the drop offs. I did tht section last year and walked the road, and wished I had hiked the woods, but aftr seeing thecodition after eading this, I made it my own personal goal to get I cleared. It's the worst spot on the trail IMO (And that takes some doing, several places are iffy) Thank Tau! (my site is Rivertorivertraihike.com) R2 isn't the AT but it's all we have close by.

[ScottGraham]

I got the trail cleared including both fields Tuesday. Didn't have time or energy to tackle the short section between Eastern Star and Makanda. It will be early next month.
Managed to get my Snapper mower across a field after opening the overgrown trail head at Sheppard road, drive it through the woods after clearing it, ratchet across a creek, and cut a path through the second field and into the woods as far as possible, finished the trail to the big creek crossing with weedeater with blades and chainsaw to meet where I cleared it last month. Enjoy. Still have to do the short section at Eastern Star road into Makanda.

[ScottGraham]

Before views of the trail head off Shepard road and the entrance to the woods in the 3rd photo above. The trail was nearly unhikeable and really, unfindable from the East.

[Dogwood]

Thanx Scott. And thanx again to everyone for their input.

I passed on the R2R but will reconsider it as a shorter filler thru-hike during fall as I'm traveling across the U.S east to west or vice versa en route to another thru-hike. That was my original intention of thru hiking it, sandwiching it between two other thrus, seeking a rather uncrowded less hike by the blazes, rather unknown experience on a trail/in a hiking state needing greater attention. There really are so many trails and routes worthy of being explored yet the U.S. hiking community seems unnecessarily drawn almost entirely to a handful of trails.

[andyg]

Kudos, Scott! That was a frustrating couple of miles. I was looking at doing an ArcMap project on the Ozark Trail, but it's been pretty well mapped. I think I might do it the R2R for a hikers use now. All I had to go by was topo maps with a GPS overlay. Would have been nice to have permanent water, services, and real road crossings on the map. I'm thinking possibly a land use layer and some elevation markings.

[tauwillow]

Andy, if you do complete an ArcMap project, I would love to link to it from our R2R page. Please drop me a note if it comes to pass.

Scott - you are a champion of the trail, to be sure! Thank you for all the work you're doing.

[ScottGraham]

My biggest issue with the R2R society guidebook is that none of the roads are labeled on the maps!! (I won't go into the out of order pages and maps) That's what I have been trying to get done on the maps, and if I wouldn't take ink pens that dry up on the trail, I'd be able to take better notes. I'm going to do the Camp Cadiz to battery rock leg next week and see how it really is (as a loop). One blogger said they liked it better that the Elizabethtown leg. I'll take some blazes and a hammer and hit any areas needing them on the way back.

[Dogwood]

And, that is how much needed trail work gets done. By conscientious volunteers like yourself who look beyond themselves. Thank you Scott.

[Brittney]

Hi everyone. I'm new to this, so please excuse me if I'm posting in the wrong place. I was hoping I might be able to get some advice for an upcoming trip. Everyone who has posted here seems so knowledgable and what I've read has been the most comprehensive information about the R2R I have been able to find. So, here's my story. My husband and I were originally planning a week long trip through Shenandoah, but a new job has cut into our plans and we had to change our destination and shorten our trip. With weather looking rainy up north, we decided to go south and the R2R seems like a good alternative. The trip is this coming week, October 7th to the 10th, Wednesday to Saturday. I know it's short, but it's all we can do. We don't have a shuttle, or any contacts down there, so we will have to do a hike-in-hike-out. We will be leaving Chicago early on Wednesday morning, and hitting the trail as soon as we can. Since we are doing a 3-night, 4-day hike, I am having a hard time deciding where we should start/finish. I wish we didn't have to do an in-and-out, but I just don't think there is any other way. That being said, I don't mind us having to do a longer hike on Saturday if it helps even out the trip and make the best of it. If anyone has suggestions on the part of the trail we should hike, I would really appreciate your feedback. With the little resources there are out there, anything helps! Also, if you happen to know of any loop trails outside of the R2R that might fit our time constraints, let me know! Thanks in advance

[Just Bill]

Brittney-

Hate to say it... given the options down in carbondale you may be pushing it. With a 6-7 hour drive each way, you won't have much hiking time available.

So one option- try the I&M Canal trail. It's sixty miles long and you can get on anywhere from Channahon to Lasalle/Peru. Point being you'll get to hike, not drive.
http://dnr.state.il.us/lands/landmgt/parks/i&m/main.htm

I usually park in Channahon and do an out and back from there. Although parking at the Peru end is a bit prettier section it's a bit longer drive to start.
Also the Channahon trailhead is a state park, so not that I'd be that worried, I do feel better leaving my car there.

If you're set on Carbondale...
Option 1- drive just south of town and park in the Makanda area- you can do some nice out and backs in that area.
Option 2- Go to Garden of the Gods, there are lots of loops there and you can zig-zag around the park too.
Option 3- Get a "limo".

There are a few private cabs in town that I have used over the years that are listed under Limo's, but they are basically just private cabs. I think it was $120 to get a ride in the middle of the night to the Battery Rock end. I don't have mileage in front of me, but Grand Tower back to Carbondale(makanda) is about 60 miles? It's only about a 40 minute car ride, so while it wouldn't be a cheap cab ride, you could easily book a ride from carbondale to Grand Tower and hike back to town if you're good with the mileages. Or get a ride to Alto Pass if you need to cut it shorter. Hell, being a college town UBER may be good down there now.

I think that a linear, rather than a loop is your better bet. With a cab you can notify them as you come into town and hop right in. Just make sure you find a place to park... being a college town they do have a busy ticketing agency. Call Giant City state park and ask about parking there, or park in downtown Makanda and let the police know you're hiking.

I usually take the train myself... that's an option too, but the train gets there pretty late at night and going back the schedule is iffy too. Again, timing sounds too tight for the train... but maybe next time.

[The Solemates]

hike the trail in a linear fashion. park your car at where you want to end up, and get a shuttle to take you to your start point. (dont every do it the other way around in case the shuttle doesnt show up). while I havent shuttled on the R2R, I do this multiple times a year with trails all over the US. I've never had a problem finding someone online and its usually cheap...on the order of $40-$80 for a 4-5 day trip.

[Brittney]

I looked through the options and I think we are still going to go to the RTR, departing from GOTG and heading west, then just turn around half way and come back. Like you had said, there are plenty of other trails in that area and with three nights, I figure we can see a lot with that time. It doesn't bother us that it is a 6 hour drive (I drove to Minneapolis more than once for just one or two nights). And it doesn't bother us that it is an out and back. Three nights out in the wilderness is all that we are looking for. I also don't want to rely on someone else to give us a ride in that area, it just isn't as hiked of an area as say, the AT, and I don't want our entire trip to blow up on us because someone decided they didn't want to show up. Plus, the $40-80 is the amount it would cost in gas to get down there and I would rather put it to better use. If it was a longer trip, say a week, then we would probably go to a different trail and do a linear hike.

That being said, thank you for the hike options Bill, I didn't really look into Makanda before this and that may be a good option for a hike in the future! And the I&M Canal trail might be a hike we take in March, as my husband was able to get some time off then. I appreciate the help!!

[Just Bill]

Yar- once you get much east of Makanda... you're pretty well in no-man's land.
Have someone give you a ride out and then hike back towards the carbondale area and you're good.

That said- GOTG and Lusk Creek areas are some of the best... Have a great trip!

[appompa255]

Hey guys, I know I'm a little late to the party here, but some friends and I are going to be hitting the R2R trail (or at least 4/5 days worth) on or about April 18, 2016. First of all, is there anyone else on there that would like to meet up with us? Secondly, thanks for all the info you have already shared. It looks like I better pick up a GPS and plug in the coordinates as it sounds like some of the trail has been wiped out. My buddy was telling me that some of the blazes were either maliciously removed or not there for some reason, which after reading this thread seems to be the case.

[andyg]

Navigation will be an issue. Lot's of confusing, unmarked trails and unmarked crossings. Be prepared to bushwack a little.

[Just Bill]

There is a good bit of multiuse and local use of the Shawnee. So you run into all kinds of trails and diversions, the R2R isn't the main trail basically.
Makanda westbound is pretty clear, but the eastern half is a bit of no-man's land so if you're not sure... you may consider starting at Grand Tower and heading Eastbound. 4-5 days would get you pretty well back to Makanda area (just south of Carbondale) and that portion of the trail is easier to score rides or hire transportation. E-town to Garden of the Gods is kinda filler trail, but the middle third is pretty amazing... but you're pretty well guaranteed to lose the trail or make up your own version.

Otherwise... prepare to be wet but April is a good time to go otherwise.
But even in the late fall/winter when conditions are ideal it's the river to river to creek to stream to creek to river to river trail.