"Hammocks are LIGHTER"??

[neo]

Last summer for my hike on the LT I bought a HH Backpacker ASYM at Trail Days. When I field tested it on an overnight, I got about 30 mosquito bites right through the nylon on my back, butt, and legs. When I contacted HH, their suggestions was to put a sleeping pad underneath me inside the hammock. So, if I'm carrying my Thermarest prolite anyway, I figured that blew any weight savings I might get.

I then bought an MSR Hubba and then slept in a shelter every night I was on the trail. Go figure.

When I got home I immediately bought a Tarptent Cloudburst. I cut my shelter weight in half from the Hubba and doubled my floor space.

If the shelter I'm carrying is just back up anyway, I decided to go with a tarptent and larger flor size. The Tarptent, with stakes and lines, is still light than the HH.

i have never had any problems with mosquito's biting through the bottom of my hammock neo

[Patrick]

I would say fairly typical. I don't do down either. Most these days would have a silnylon tarp though. There's a good 10 oz at least. Mine weighs ~13oz +1 oz line and stakes. It's about 17 oz. I'd say you did lose about .5 lbs in your switch. Not sure about the groundcloth, how big was it? That seems heavy. I'm going to weigh mine when I get home.

I'm just playing devil's advocate anyway. There's no way I can sleep on a RR. I use a Prolite 4 Reg and a thermarest chair for comfort. I like being able to plop down throughout camp.

Haha, my tarp was silnylon. Eight stakes weighed 4 ounces (I like the tri-bladed stakes for fairly rocky ground), cord and stuff sack were 3 ounces. So, 19 oz for the tarp. Hard to say what size the tarp was exactly because it was shaped (tapered at the foot), but it was definitely on the big side. The ground cloth was probably 8' X 4'.

Swap my 3/4 Z Lite for the Prolite, and we're at 61oz.,(3lbs,. 13oz.) and still good for 3 seasons. Swap the Ultralite for a Highlite (35 degrees), and we're down to 51oz., (3lbs, 3oz.) full package.

So, folks, we have to include comfort as a consideration, because otherwise I am not seeing the hammocks coming out on top (on bottom?) weight-wise. People obviously love them, so the weight/comfort ratio is apparently why. It works for them... fine with me.

Beachwalker, just to be contentious:

Hennessy "race" hammock: 15 oz.
Jacks R Better No Sniveller Quilt: 20 oz.
Jacks R Better Nest Quilt (for underneath): 20 oz.

Total weight: 55 oz (3 lbs, 7 oz)

That will take you down to 35 degrees also.

I agree with you, though. Comfort is a huge, huge factor. I saved weight on my hammock system, but I would have been thrilled to have stayed the same and now, after using the hammock, I'd keep it if it weighed more than my old tarp set-up.

[Alligator]

Haha, my tarp was silnylon. Eight stakes weighed 4 ounces (I like the tri-bladed stakes for fairly rocky ground), cord and stuff sack were 3 ounces. So, 19 oz for the tarp. Hard to say what size the tarp was exactly because it was shaped (tapered at the foot), but it was definitely on the big side. The ground cloth was probably 8' X 4'.
...

Whoops my bad. Actually, my cords and stakes weighed a similar amount until fairly recently. I was real surprised at how much all the cord I had with my tarp weighed. And titanium stakes seem to have become relatively inexpensive in the past year or so.

[Rainman]

i have never had any problems with mosquito's biting through the bottom of my hammock neo

I wish I could say the same. I am going to try the Permathrin that TripClark suggested. Hopefully that will help.

[Patrick]

Whoops my bad. Actually, my cords and stakes weighed a similar amount until fairly recently. I was real surprised at how much all the cord I had with my tarp weighed. And titanium stakes seem to have become relatively inexpensive in the past year or so.

Haven't tried ti stakes yet. I only carry two stakes now, so the weight savings of carrying the shepherd's hook ti ones (only shape I've seen in ti) don't seem worth it to me. I like the tri-blade ones a whole lot (don't know what they're really called). I can bang the hell out of them with rocks or whatever and nothing hurts them. If I come across some ti stakes cheap, I'll give them a whirl, though.

How did you save weight on the cord? I used Sgt. Rock's idea of pulling the core out of my 550 cord to save some weight on my bear bag rope. Saved a good percentage of the weight, but, my God, was it a pain to do. I'd probably burn fewer calories carrying that inner core 2,200 miles than I did pulling it out.

[Alligator]

How did you save weight on the cord? I used Sgt. Rock's idea of pulling the core out of my 550 cord to save some weight on my bear bag rope. Saved a good percentage of the weight, but, my God, was it a pain to do. I'd probably burn fewer calories carrying that inner core 2,200 miles than I did pulling it out.

I had about 40' of what I think was either 4 or 3 mil cord. I cut it into a long piece for running ridgelines and then a couple of smaller pieces. On the scale of mountaineering type ropes, the small 3-4 mil are the thinnest that one sees in the gear shops. I also threw in a couple of plastic, braided ropes from an old car camping tarp. They had been used to hold the poles up. Anyway, while all these lines looked thin they weighed like 4-5 oz. So I bought a 50' length of kelty Triptease, it weighs an ounce. The Spectra Aircore is even lighter, but it won't hold some knots. I was actually using one knot that it was said the Aircore won't hold, so I bought the triptease. Plus I like that you can see at night, it helps to find the tarp late at night. I'm not sure how these compare to Sgt. Rock's idea.

www.prolitegear.com has a lot of little light items for sale. They have the cord there. I bought some small dropper bottles ~1/3 oz from them too. I replaced both my Purell and camp soap bottles and saved 3 oz.

[Patrick]

I'll check that out, thanks. I have Triptease, too, but haven't wound up using it. I actually like to be as invisible as possible, especially at night. Anyway, sorry to hijack the thread. Back to arguing about hammock vs. tarp weights.

[Footslogger]

I completely switched over my guy lines (tent and hammock) to the AirCore Pro Dyneema Guyline. Much lighter than nylon cord of the same length and every bit as strong.

Unlike in a previous post, I have had no issues with knots (I use primarily the taughtline and bowline hitches) and and what I really like is that this line does not get tangled. They make a slightly heavier version of the same line for suspending food bags and I've gone that route as well. Never gets caught on branches and is easy to see.

'Slogger

[Alligator]

Taughtline hitch, that's the one I wanted. I'm terrible with knots . The folks at prolite.gear said the Spectra cord wouldn't hold it, so I went with the triptease. I might pick up a length of the Dyneema for my winter tent though. That's were I moved some of my old lines .

[Patrick]

I think the taughtline hitch is the greatest knot ever. Footslogger, where'd you get that? I was just reading about what I think is the same thing on a site, but the name escapes me. They talked about usual nylon cord "sawing" branches when used as bear line, which is what really got me thinking about that.

[Footslogger]

Taughtline hitch, that's the one I wanted. I'm terrible with knots . The folks at prolite.gear said the Spectra cord wouldn't hold it, so I went with the triptease. I might pick up a length of the Dyneema for my winter tent though. That's were I moved some of my old lines .

=============================
That was one of the first knot I used when I got the Dyneema cord. My Six Moon tent has 2 tie-outs and I attached the line to the loops on the tent (using a bowline) and then attached it to tree branches using the taughtline - never moved a millimeter. I even used a "slippery" taughtline so that it would be easier to take down in the morning. The stuff's not cheap but with my membership at Backpackinglight.com I got a break on the price. Not much more than Triptease (which I also have in the gear locker).

'Slogger

[Footslogger]

I think the taughtline hitch is the greatest knot ever. Footslogger, where'd you get that? I was just reading about what I think is the same thing on a site, but the name escapes me. They talked about usual nylon cord "sawing" branches when used as bear line, which is what really got me thinking about that.

========================================
Probably more than once source but I bought mine on-line at Backpackinglight.com. If you have a memebership they give you a decent discount.

'Slogger

[Lanthar Mandragoran]

Speaking of guyline material... some of the kite building sites has pure spectra up to 500' breaking strength (i think) for extremely inexpensive... can't find the site at the moment

[Footslogger]

Speaking of guyline material... some of the kite building sites has pure spectra up to 500' breaking strength (i think) for extremely inexpensive... can't find the site at the moment

========================================
Might be the same place I got my lightweigth/soft Tyvek

http://www.intothewind.com/

'Slogger

[Lanthar Mandragoran]

actually, into the wind (one of the places I may be buying stuff from - they carry 1422R the lightest "soft" tyvek there is... well other than type 16 which is microperf'd which is probably not a good idea...) only carries spectra as bridle line (however it's colored or sheathed so it's 'pretty') and is 175lb test, 60' for only like 8$ (look under kitemaking supplies) other than that they only carry braided dacron.


however, I"ll probably be buying a spool of their bridle line when I get some soft tyvek from them...

it's kitebuilder.com that used to carry pure spectra but is now out of it...

[Lanthar Mandragoran]

I want to get a hold of some reflektra for a car-camping / base-camp sun tarp...

[titanium_hiker]

woah- parameters need to be defined- what scale of comfort? the lightest shelter is none at all- just crash on the ground- of course you'd be cold wet and bugbitten, but you'd truly be an SSXXUL. obviously we don't need 5star penthouse comfort either.

what about gear? does a pad get included? line? stakes? warmth? what is the temp we are aiming for?

how low can you go (for either system?)
titanium

[titanium_hiker]

my idea of miniumum comfort-
warm enough to sleep.
away from the bugs enough to sleep.
no soreness (so tenters need pads...)
able to sleep. (thats the bottom line really)

the hammock- light underquilt for warmth- ditch icky pad (you also need a top quilt- this counts as a sleeping bag)
bug netting- tarpers need to include bug net used.

titanium

[MedicineMan]

this year alone now up to 37 nights in a Lite Racer..i'm 6'1" and 189 pounds.
I'm betting on getting another 37 nights out of it too since it shows no sign of any wear or tear....

[Burn]

maybe the idea of 3-4 season system is lost too in this discussion. i saw no one dare to winter in the HH where many tarped and lite weight tented. i hammocked from day 1 (march 1st) in my clark jungle hammock, which is not lite at all...3.5#s. versitility is the true plus of any hammock.

wintering in the clark requires no underquilt, overquilt, bug net is included in the package and actually adds a degree or 2 on the heat factor in winter.

the lowest temp i went thru was around 17* and slept like a baby.