Joey Camp's Unsupported Record Attempt

[Chair-man]

Joey Camps Blog trail name Flash

This guy is really hauling a$$. I found out about him from reading Right Here's trailjournal entry where he ran into him yesterday.

I believe Matt Kirk holds the current unsupported record of 58 days 9 hours.

I find Joey's blog to be quite entertaining too.

[Ricky&Jack]

what does "Unsupported" mean? I saw that a few times here, but I think it was used as a few diff meanings.

[Slo-go'en]

what does "Unsupported" mean? I saw that a few times here, but I think it was used as a few diff meanings.

Unsupported means your on your own lugging a full pack with no help from others. That can also mean not even hitch hiking to town for supplies, but that's taking it to extremes.

[Wolf - 23000]

Unsupported means your on your own lugging a full pack with no help from others. That can also mean not even hitch hiking to town for supplies, but that's taking it to extremes.

Slo-go'en,

Going off of your definition, wouldn’t the record still be retained by Ward Leonard? During his hike Matt had purchase food from other hikers while on the trail. Up to that point of purchase, that food weight was carried by other hikers. So he was supported. Ward on the other hand, had to get off trail, go into town and purchase his own food. All this takes time.

Wolf

[Just Bill]

Slo-go'en,

Going off of your definition, wouldn’t the record still be retained by Ward Leonard? During his hike Matt had purchase food from other hikers while on the trail. Up to that point of purchase, that food weight was carried by other hikers. So he was supported. Ward on the other hand, had to get off trail, go into town and purchase his own food. All this takes time.

Wolf

Rather than debate the technicalities, I think what is interesting is the mutual respect. On a 2200 mile journey the little bits are less critical than on a shorter "race".
Much like era's in other sports; you could easily argue that Ward is still the man. Technology and gear, popularity of the trail, better maintenance and routing, and even the simple fact that people cared even less then than they do now- leaving the motivation for such an attempt even more pure than those who pursue it today. Add that to the fact that Ward's record stood for 23 years and there is virtually zero argument that Mr. Leonard is the man and a great inspiration in that respect.

A trip to FKT will confirm that Ward's name still remains- and indeed Peter Bakwin and the entire community of folks go out of their way to acknowledge those who have come before them, and support those who eventually supplant their record. I'd like to think that Ward would congratulate Matt, much as Andrew Thompson reached out to congratulate Jen. And Matt stands ready to congratulate Joey should he pull it off.

Some obvious and flagrant violation of the spirit of these "records" is not tolerated, but (not that I am a member) this community seems little concerned with the minutia amongst themselves and support each other completely.

You have an argument, but as it seems of little importance to those who do this and there is nothing official or regulated in these friendly competitions against one's self, it seems little worth it to make it.

Sorry to dismiss your opinion out of hand, my apologies, your point is certainly valid. I'd rather celebrate the accomplishments and respect the achievements than debate a single theoretical misstep in a journey of five million.

[Wolf - 23000]

Rather than debate the technicalities, I think what is interesting is the mutual respect. On a 2200 mile journey the little bits are less critical than on a shorter "race".
Much like era's in other sports; you could easily argue that Ward is still the man. Technology and gear, popularity of the trail, better maintenance and routing, and even the simple fact that people cared even less then than they do now- leaving the motivation for such an attempt even more pure than those who pursue it today. Add that to the fact that Ward's record stood for 23 years and there is virtually zero argument that Mr. Leonard is the man and a great inspiration in that respect.

A trip to FKT will confirm that Ward's name still remains- and indeed Peter Bakwin and the entire community of folks go out of their way to acknowledge those who have come before them, and support those who eventually supplant their record. I'd like to think that Ward would congratulate Matt, much as Andrew Thompson reached out to congratulate Jen. And Matt stands ready to congratulate Joey should he pull it off.

Some obvious and flagrant violation of the spirit of these "records" is not tolerated, but (not that I am a member) this community seems little concerned with the minutia amongst themselves and support each other completely.

You have an argument, but as it seems of little importance to those who do this and there is nothing official or regulated in these friendly competitions against one's self, it seems little worth it to make it.

Sorry to dismiss your opinion out of hand, my apologies, your point is certainly valid. I'd rather celebrate the accomplishments and respect the achievements than debate a single theoretical misstep in a journey of five million.

Just Bill,

I will start with the gear portion because I always get a good laugh when someone make it out that ultra-light gear was not around back in the 1990s. Back in the 1990, I for one had a base weight of under-5 pounds. Sure gear has gotten lighter sense then but if you know what you were doing, it was still fairly easy to travel ultra-light. Ward was carrying around 8 pounds when he did his speed-hike. Even by today standards, it is still fairly lightweight.

As for thinking Ward would congratulate Matt, I would be shocked. Ward knew that one day this record would be beaten, so he set up a serious of records that be believe would make it very difficult for any one hiker to beat them all.
I’m sure all of us will both agree, there are no really guidelines for how someone does their hike but I do believe in a fair playing field. Instead of trying to doing clever ways to save time/energy it would be interesting to compare them side by side to determine who is the better man (or woman if it should happen at a later date).

[Sly]

Slo-go'en,

Going off of your definition, wouldn’t the record still be retained by Ward Leonard? During his hike Matt had purchase food from other hikers while on the trail. Up to that point of purchase, that food weight was carried by other hikers. So he was supported. Ward on the other hand, had to get off trail, go into town and purchase his own food. All this takes time.

Wolf

One problem is we don't know exactly how Ward's hike went down. He very well may have participated in hand outs and pot luck dinners, or got a ride in and out of town for that matter.

[Wolf - 23000]

One problem is we don't know exactly how Ward's hike went down. He very well may have participated in hand outs and pot luck dinners, or got a ride in and out of town for that matter.

Sly,

I've hiked with Ward for a couple of days. I was actually one of a SMALL number of hikers he respected. Ward did not take hand outs. Ward was not the type of hiker who was out there for the social portion of the trail. Without going into details, he would refuse taken an food from someone else.

As for the rides into towns the answer is yes. He did except rides into and out of towns like most hikers do.

Wolf

[tdoczi]

One problem is we don't know exactly how Ward's hike went down. He very well may have participated in hand outs and pot luck dinners, or got a ride in and out of town for that matter.

ive been trying to point out this entirely obvious fact for years, especially given that at the time there was evidently no distinction between supported and unsupported records. its a loosing battle, the guy is just mythically above reproach, or even serious discussion, to too many people around here.

[Ricky&Jack]

oh okay. So basically every hiker who doesn't use mail drops. lol

Great blog tho. thanks.

[Pedaling Fool]

oh okay. So basically every hiker who doesn't use mail drops. lol

Great blog tho. thanks.

No, mail drops are fine under the definition of Unsupported.

The vast majority of hikers are considered Unsupported, it's just taken for granted; however, if you notice that this thread is under the Trail Running and Speed Hiking forum and in that world the terms Supported and Unsupported take on an entirely different meaning and are important things to know when someone is trying to make a fast hike.

The current holder of the Supported speed hike of the AT http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/24/sp...anted=all&_r=0


The current holder of the Unsupported speed hike of the AT http://matthewkirk.blogspot.com/



P.S. These are unofficial since this isn't a sanctioned sport.

[Rocket Jones]

No, unsupported means no team waiting for you at road crossings with meals, water, a place to sleep, etc. Doing a supported hike lets you carry a lot less and move much faster.

[Malto]

He is definitely cranking the miles. 40 and change and still going strong, though the mileage is somewhat inconsistent. Good luck.

[Mags]

Three broad categories as established by the Fastest Known Time board http://fastestknowntime.proboards.com/ :


Unsupported - Means you carry ALL your food from start to finish with no outside resupply (including mail drops). Something like the Colorado Trail and the JMT is where this happens. I'm almost certain this type of record will not happen on something like the PCT. I could be wrong, though.

Self-Supported: Traditional thru-hike style. Mail drops, resupply by shopping in town. Some will not hitch into town at all and walk into town or a mail drop place. That's a relatively newer trend more-or-less started by Scott Williamson on the PCT.

Supported: Ultra-run style. Support crew at road crossings, typically sleeping in a camp assistants set up for you, only day-hiking/running gear is typically carried

Good read, BTW
http://www.outsideonline.com/fitness...nown-Time.html

[Jeff]

Unsupported - Means you carry ALL your food from start to finish with no outside resupply (including mail drops). Something like the Colorado Trail and the JMT is where this happens. I'm almost certain this type of record will not happen on something like the PCT. I could be wrong, though.

Self-Supported: Traditional thru-hike style. Mail drops, resupply by shopping in town. Some will not hitch into town at all and walk into town or a mail drop place. That's a relatively newer trend more-or-less started by Scott Williamson on the PCT.

Although these definitions may be "technically" accurate, many AT hikers refer to Matt Kirk's record as UNSUPPORTED even though it was Self Supported by your definition.

[Mags]

Although these definitions may be "technically" accurate, many AT hikers refer to Matt Kirk's record as UNSUPPORTED even though it was Self Supported by your definition.

It is not my definition. It is the FKT's community definition.

See the Colorado Trail link I gave earlier for more info.
http://fastestknowntime.proboards.co...colorado-trail

As I mentioned above, there is a definite blur between unsupported and self-supported. Matters to only a small amount of people, but still....

[rafe]

Mags I'm confused by your definition of "self-supported", to wit: "Some will not hitch into town at all." Meaning what, exactly? That they always walked to/from town?

Eons ago some early AT thru hikers buried food caches at select road crossings. I can't imagine anyone does that nowadays.

[Mobius]

Mags I'm confused by your definition of "self-supported", to wit: "Some will not hitch into town at all." Meaning what, exactly? That they always walked to/from town?

Matt Kirk's self-supported hike utilized the "no cars" rule. He hiked into town. His personal rules for self-supported are here: http://sub60.wikispaces.com/About

[Mags]

Mags I'm confused by your definition of "self-supported", to wit: "Some will not hitch into town at all." Meaning what, exactly? That they always walked to/from town?

Exactly that. That seems to be the trend more and more. As mentioned, it was started (I believe) by Scott Williamson on the PCT. Matt Kirk did it as mentioned above. So did Anish on her PCT thru.

[Pedaling Fool]

I knew there was a third category, but didn't feel like searching for it and I knew someone would correct me. Thanks Mags.


BTW, did I get it wrong? Is Matt Kirk the current Self-Supported record holder? If so, who is the Unsupported record holder? Or are the terms just kind of synonyms, in a loosey-goosey type of way