Left for Dead by Beck Weathers

[lemon b]

You got that one right Walter. Sherpas are the elite of the elite. Also its a shame they are forced into such difficult tasks due to their economic positions. Too bad maybe that Mountain couldn't get closed down and the Sherpa given some type of economic remumeration for the way they have been used and never get the credit they have earned. They certainly are a special culture and should be treated with more respect by all.

[fiddlehead]

I don't think they are forced into it.
I've hired many Sherpas for trekking. (well, I always use the same head guide or Sirdar, but he gets a crew of Sherpas together depending on what we need)
Sure the ones on Everest make more money, but I believe they know it is much more dangerous.

They climb because it's where they are from> They are born nearby in Kumbu.
And they don't seem to mind the altitude nearly as much as other people.
They have a great religion that teaches them a lot about focus.

They are very proud people and take a lot of pride in their work.

Many Sherpas get all their gear given to them each trip and sell it when the expedition is over.
As well as food that is left over.
They do get life insurance, but it should be much more.

They are looked up to in their culture for being guides on Sagarmatha.
But it's not for everyone.

The Sherpani's (women in the tribe) can carry more than the men oftentimes.
I've seen them carrying enormous loads.

[Tipi Walter]

I never said the sherpas aren't a proud and tough group---my beef comes with their clients who do minimal work to reach a summit, apparently letting the sherpas do most of the work. Hence, the guide services "outsource the risk" to the sherpas. And then to top it off the guides and clients leave tons of crap on the mountain---ropes, oxygen bottles, etc. I know, there's been a recent push with cash incentives (for the sherpas, by the way) to clean up the mountains---but what kind of mountaineering ethic ever allowed this kind of garbage and littering?? It boggles the mind.

We have the same ethic here in the Tennessee mountains---rednecks leaving garbage everywhere---tarps, skillets, booze bottles, beer cans, used toilet paper and fresh turds, etc. They share this trait with the "elite mountaineers" I guess. Phew, I'm still steamed it seems.

I guess the Summit Push is the most important thing in the world. Who cares if they leave their tents and bottles and ropes and all else on the mountain? It's the Me Generation.

[lemon b]

The entitled generation also. Maybe the guides should have some clean up rules in their licences or contracts. What do you think is the solution for clean up in the death zone and upper camp areas Walter? Seems like it would be very difficult to police. I really feel the Sherpas are more than likely the only people who would be able to get the job done and feel they should somehow be paid well for their efforts. Can not see how this could be done without a several year complete closure of all the camps.
I've also read that some climbers actually turn to drugs in order to make their blood more rich in oxygen and that the drug alone has taken lives thru misuse.

[colorado_rob]

I've read three of those books a couple times now over the years (Into thin Air, The Climb and Left for Dead), very interesting reading following the different perspectives. Krakauer's is the best read, IMHO. Weather's is sure a true bad-a$$ though, wow, what he went through and survived! Hard to make accurate conclusions about Boukreev; so much conflicting info, and he died only a year later.

People that have never climbed to high altitudes simply do not understand what it is like up there, and IMHO, judge too harshly how climbers behave.

If you're looking for other exciting Mountaineering tales to read, I like Krakauer's "Eiger Dreams", Ed Viesturs "No shortcuts to the Top" and Reinhold Messner's "Crystal Horizons". World class mountaineers are sure in short supply in the USA; Ed Viesturs is the only American to have truly joined the world's High Altitude Climbing Elite.

As an aside, but since it was mentioned, I've never heard of High altitude drugs actually doing any harm, though of course some times they don't help enough. Can you provide any references lemon? I always take along Diamox for AMS, Dex for HACE and yes, Viagra for, er, HAPE, thankfully never have needed the latter two, but I take small doses of Diamox prophylactically to stave off AMS and since I've never gotten AMS, it might be helping. Some folks are allergic to Diamox (a sulfa drug), perhaps that's what you're referring to.

[CalebJ]

Not sure about the rest, but dexamethasone has been discussed a bit in terms of overuse. Here's one article:
http://www.outsideonline.com/fitness...le-Helper.html

[rocketsocks]

I've read three of those books a couple times now over the years (Into thin Air, The Climb and Left for Dead), very interesting reading following the different perspectives. Krakauer's is the best read, IMHO. Weather's is sure a true bad-a$$ though, wow, what he went through and survived! Hard to make accurate conclusions about Boukreev; so much conflicting info, and he died only a year later.

People that have never climbed to high altitudes simply do not understand what it is like up there, and IMHO, judge too harshly how climbers behave.

If you're looking for other exciting Mountaineering tales to read, I like Krakauer's "Eiger Dreams", Ed Viesturs "No shortcuts to the Top" and Reinhold Messner's "Crystal Horizons". World class mountaineers are sure in short supply in the USA; Ed Viesturs is the only American to have truly joined the world's High Altitude Climbing Elite.

As an aside, but since it was mentioned, I've never heard of High altitude drugs actually doing any harm, though of course some times they don't help enough. Can you provide any references lemon? I always take along Diamox for AMS, Dex for HACE and yes, Viagra for, er, HAPE, thankfully never have needed the latter two, but I take small doses of Diamox prophylactically to stave off AMS and since I've never gotten AMS, it might be helping. Some folks are allergic to Diamox (a sulfa drug), perhaps that's what you're referring to.

What's that for, sauce makin?

[rocketsocks]

I've read three of those books a couple times now over the years (Into thin Air, The Climb and Left for Dead), very interesting reading following the different perspectives. Krakauer's is the best read, IMHO. Weather's is sure a true bad-a$$ though, wow, what he went through and survived! Hard to make accurate conclusions about Boukreev; so much conflicting info, and he died only a year later.

People that have never climbed to high altitudes simply do not understand what it is like up there, and IMHO, judge too harshly how climbers behave.

If you're looking for other exciting Mountaineering tales to read, I like Krakauer's "Eiger Dreams", Ed Viesturs "No shortcuts to the Top" and Reinhold Messner's "Crystal Horizons". World class mountaineers are sure in short supply in the USA; Ed Viesturs is the only American to have truly joined the world's High Altitude Climbing Elite.

As an aside, but since it was mentioned, I've never heard of High altitude drugs actually doing any harm, though of course some times they don't help enough. Can you provide any references lemon? I always take along Diamox for AMS, Dex for HACE and yes, Viagra for, er, HAPE, thankfully never have needed the latter two, but I take small doses of Diamox prophylactically to stave off AMS and since I've never gotten AMS, it might be helping. Some folks are allergic to Diamox (a sulfa drug), perhaps that's what you're referring to.

What's that for, sauce makin?


...and for those that haven't read Krakauers book yet, "Sauce making" was a reference made by a Sherpa speaking about an un-wed couple sharing a tent together for purposes of intimacy, and that it would upset the Mother Godess of the Sky/Mountain" Chomolungma. Many Sherpas thought this was one of the reasons for the 96' Everest disaster.

[colorado_rob]

Not sure about the rest, but dexamethasone has been discussed a bit in terms of overuse. Here's one article:
http://www.outsideonline.com/fitness...le-Helper.html

Any drug can be overused, people had died by probably the thousands from overusing Tylenol, but I'd be willing to bet the number of lives saved by Dex vs. any problems caused by overuse of Dex is 100 to 1 or more. I always carry it up high, but have never had to use it. Same with that sauce-making drug.... the little blue pill (right? ... for Pulmonary Edema... ). We always get a chuckle out of all the Viagra carried these days on high mountains. But alas, up at those altitudes, amorous thoughts are pretty rare.

[rocketsocks]

As a kid and first learning of Sir Edmund Hilary and Tenzing Norgay Everest accent, it was amazing to me, I had never even seen snow til I was about 5-6 years old, we just didn't get it where I lived much, Fort Worth. Years later and reading a book in junior high, I became interested in the Sherpas, and since then they have become the hero's in these stories to me.

had a tent as a kid that had written on the label....Sir Edmund Hilary, yeah, I played mountaineering.

[rocketsocks]

What's that for, sauce makin?


...and for those that haven't read Krakauers book yet, "Sauce making" was a reference made by a Sherpa speaking about an un-wed couple sharing a tent together for purposes of intimacy, and that it would upset the Mother Godess of the Sky/Mountain" Chomolungma, In the Sherpa religion this is strictly forbidden. Many Sherpas thought this was one of the reasons for the 96' Everest disaster.

...and for those that haven't read Krakauers book yet, "Sauce making" was a reference made by a Sherpa speaking about an un-wed couple sharing a tent together for purposes of intimacy, and that it would upset the Mother Goddess of the Sky/Mountain" Chomolungma, In the Sherpa religion this is strictly forbidden. Many Sherpas thought this was one of the reasons for the 96' Everest disaster.

[CalebJ]

Any drug can be overused, people had died by probably the thousands from overusing Tylenol, but I'd be willing to bet the number of lives saved by Dex vs. any problems caused by overuse of Dex is 100 to 1 or more. I always carry it up high, but have never had to use it. Same with that sauce-making drug.... the little blue pill (right? ... for Pulmonary Edema... ). We always get a chuckle out of all the Viagra carried these days on high mountains. But alas, up at those altitudes, amorous thoughts are pretty rare.

Not arguing against you on any of that. Clearly it has its place. The link was just in response to your question from before. I'd probably carry it too (if/when I ever get the opportunity for high altitude climbing).

[rocketsocks]

I seem to remember reading that it shouldn't be used as a prophylactic, or at least that's not how Doctors prescribe it ???

[CalebJ]

Correct, the consensus is that it shouldn't be. And definitely not in the quantities that the guy in the linked article was taking.

[rocketsocks]

Correct, the consensus is that it shouldn't be. And definitely not in the quantities that the guy in the linked article was taking.

Ah, thanks Calebj, somehow I missed your first article/post there.

[rocketsocks]

Correct, the consensus is that it shouldn't be. And definitely not in the quantities that the guy in the linked article was taking.

Good read, Didn't know DEX was a steroid, and also now understand Colorado Robs comment on Viagra. I don't take DEX, but something similar for a different condition, and yes, you can't stop taking that stuff cold turkey least you go into Adrenal failure. My doctor told that by next year, folks that take steroids long term may be required to carry what is like a epi pen for people with severe allergic conditions, apparently steroid users are not understanding the way to use this drug correctly (or perhaps it's not be prescribed correctly by the doctors, and fully conveying how to use it, weaning down) and there have been some deaths/court orderd judgement...thus it prompted the injectable quick acting steroid for adrenal gland stabilization.