Sleeping Bags For A Noob

[AO2134]

Hey all. I could use (a lot) of help selecting a sleeping bag. I am a fairly experienced day hiker. Inexperienced solo overnight hiker. I want to do some more overnight trips including doing sections of AT and BMT.

I anticipate that much of my overnight/section hiking would occur between April and September in Georgia/NC/Tennessee. I will likely be able to plan them for nicer weather in those months, but you never know. I do sleep warm so that is another factor.

I will have an REI Passage 2 tent. I will have a sleeping pad. I don;t know which. But if my previous cheapness is any indication it may be http://www.rei.com/product/810386/th...-sleeping-pad- or http://www.rei.com/product/865152/th...t-sleeping-pad.

I was looking at one of two bags currently: (1) REI Pod Light which is on sale at rei outlet http://www.rei.com/product/865450/re...l-buy#specsTab or (2) Marmot Trestles 30 http://www.rei.com/product/828305/ma...g-bag#specsTab

Also, I have heard some talk about ultralight weight sleeping bag which uses just a bivy. http://www.rei.com/product/794291/re...list-bivy-long

Any thoughts?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

[HooKooDooKu]

In my opinion, the sleeping bags you are considering are on the heavy side. But that is the reason they are priced close to $100.

For a bit more money, you can get a much lighter bag. Hear is my personal favorite that FULL price is about $280:
http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___41183
But, as you can see, it is currently on sale for $190... and in the past, I've seen this model sleeping bag closer to the $150 range (I bought two of the previous year's model of this exact bag from campmor, a Large for myself for $160 and a Regular for my son for $150).

[Another Kevin]

HooKooDooKoo's suggestion is certainly a possibility. For the money, that bag is very light. It might not be quite enough in the "shoulder season" - I prefer a 20-degree bag for three-season hiking, but I'm up here in the North. Where I hike most, I can't usually put my microspikes away until May, and I'm taking them out again as early as October.

The decision that you're really making is down vs. synthetic. Synthetic bags are a bit more forgiving. If down gets wet, it loses all its warmth. The water repellency on modern down bags is pretty good, though. They won't get soaked from the morning dew. Down is more expensive - but goes even lighter than synthetic. It also compacts tighter. Properly stored, it lasts approximately forever. Repeated compression degrades most synthetic fibers, and an older synthetic bag will not have the loft that it did when it was new.

The "not too expensive" 20-degree down bag is what a lot of hikers start out with, and it'll surely give years of faithful service. If I recall correctly, Mags still has the Kelty Cosmic that he started with, and still prefers it to the fancy expensive bags on occasion - and he probably has ten thousand miles under his boots. Typical down starter bags, in addition to the Kelty Cosmic Down that Mags has, are the North Face Furnace and the Sierra Designs Zissou. Most of the outfitters have house-branded clones of these: the REI Radiant, EMS Simmer Down, and so on.

I got back into backpacking about three years ago, after quite a few years away (and didn't have a lot to spend). I picked up an REI Radiant as the previous year's model at a deep discount, and I still have it. I've since added on gear for colder weather, and I'm kind of thinking about getting something much more lightweight for summer, but I can foresee this remaining my "go to" for borderline conditions for quite a while. It's serviceable even in summer. I just unzip it and use it as a quilt, or sleep on top of it. All of these bags are lighter than the two synthetic bags you mentioned in your post, and go 10-15 degrees colder. And for what it's worth, I last spent a night in it about three weeks ago, doing a section of the Devil's Path in the Catskills and tenting near the Mink Hollow shelter. Slept like a rock - on one.

You aren't likely to go wrong with the RidgeRest pad you mentioned. The TrailScout that you pointed to is on the heavy side. I carry a ProLite instead - 15 oz. I like having everything on the inside of my pack, because about a third of my hikes involve at least some bushwhacking, and a pad like the RidgeRest is likely to turn to trail confetti. But on trail, that's not so much of an issue. A lot of the people I go out with have them and like them. In winter, I supplement the ProLite with the infamous blue foam pad. The "trail confetti" problem is a lot less of an issue when you're cruising above all the brush on snowshoes.

REI Passage 2 tent. Five pounds. Good Lord. Five pounds.

I have a similar tent. It serves for going with my daughter, when one of us can carry the tent and the other can take most of the consumables. But five pounds is atrociously heavy. My TarpTent Notch is 1 pound 14 ounces - and that's because I have the model with the solid side panels. The standard model is 1 pound 11 ounces. It's pricier ($275) but the price will get over three pounds off your back. (If you don't use poles, look at the Rainbow or Moment instead. The weight goes up to 2 pounds 2 ounces, still less than half the weight of what you propose.)

I'm not big on bivy bags - I want a proper tent, I'm afraid. Bivy bags are confining, have no place to get your pack and boots out of the weather, and don't ventilate well. They also have condensation problems. So do small tents, but you can usually arrange at least to not have the condensation drip right on your sleeping bag, and it's a lot less of an issue once you've learnt how to let some air circulate in the tent.

[bigcranky]

It can still get cold in April, sometimes very cold, though as you said you'll be able to choose your weekends for this. If it were me, I would get a down bag rated to 35-40 degrees F, but that REI synthetic bag would be fine, too, and the price is sure attractive.

Everybody starts with a basic synthetic sleeping bag, usually 20F or 30F rated. They are inexpensive enough that you won't mind too much when you replace it in a few years for a better quality down bag (down bags are lighter, compress better, and last significantly longer.)

The Ridgerest is a fine choice -- it'll insulate you from the ground, which is the most important function of a pad, and it's reasonably comfortable. You'll carry it strapped to the outside of your pack, as it's pretty big when rolled up. The best part about this pad is that it will never leak or go flat, so you can just throw it down anywhere.

Edit: let me add, no bivy bags. Seriously. Just think for a moment how you will get in and out of that thing when it's pouring rain.

[sfdoc]

Tent: Kelty Salida; $170 (shop around), albs. Sleeping bag: try Wiggy's. Tough bags, reasonable prices, moderate weight.
Good luck on your hike.

[Old Hiker]

I have a Trestle - I bought it in Hot Springs to get rid of my 0* when it was WAY too warm at night. My Trestle is great - a bit heavy? Maybe, but it was warm(ish) down to about 25*. I had a t-shirt and synthetic shorts on that night. Every other night I was very comfortable.

Steep and cheap is having a 2 day camping sale: http://www.steepandcheap.com/gear-cache/camping May want to check out some of the gear there. Problems are: 2 days. Can't try it on until you buy it. Return postage if you don't like it.

My ALPS 2 pound "untralight" pad is there as well. I'm thinking about using this next time instead of my closed cell pad, but I'm still ambivalent about leaks. Plus, I can sit on my closed cell pad anytime, anywhere.

[Wise Old Owl]

I agree with the suggestions above and plead with you not to do the bivy unless you are really prepared for some nights that suck - I like then but they have more draw backs that you have not considered. Bivys and Noobs do not do well together.

[HooKooDooKu]

I prefer a 20-degree bag for three-season hiking.

Because the OP has specified hiking in GA/TN/NC between Apr and Sep, I see no need for a full blown 3 season bag. Based on my experience in GSMNP, a 32º bag is fine during this time period. The only exception might be a cold spell in Apr or Sep when you plan to be at upper altitudes. Otherwise, in GSMNP, I find I only have to change over to my 15º-20º bag if I'm at upper altitudes in October. Otherwise, I've done ok with a 32º into the start of Nov at lower elevations.

But to move upto a 15º/20º bag, you will have to add additional weight.

As an example of the Ultralimina series I pointed out, the weights break down about like this:
15º - 3lbs
32º - 2lbs
45º - 1.5lbs

On of the reasons I recommend this particular 32º bag is because it's s light as carrying a 55º fleece blanket/bag yet still warm enough for the cooler times of year within the OP's time frame.

Otherwise, I would agree that a 20º bag is more of a general purpose 3-season bag.

[AO2134]

Thanks guys.

The bivy is off the list, forever.

I was leaning towards the therm-a-rest trail scout despite the additional money given some youtube reviews, but it seems you guys prefer the ridgerest. Am i reading you guys right? I do plan to strap it to the bottom of my pack if I do decide to go with it. It is lighter as well. Also, no worries about inability to inflate if the worst should happen. I think I have been convinced.

Recently, I started to add up the weight of the gear I hope to get and became surprised at the likely total weight.

Gear List So Far:

2 person tent: 5 lbs, 5 oz. $150
Sleeping System (pad & bag): 5 lbs $170
Pack: 4 lbs 12 oz. $190
Cocking System: 1 lb 5 oz $70
Water + hydration system + purifies: 5 lbs 12 oz. $ $70
Food (2-3 nights, 3-4 days): 6 lbs
Headlamp + extra batteries 10 oz $40

So just in that alone I have 28 lbs 12 oz.

That doesn't include sunscreen, bug repellant, phone, camera, toiletries, book & map, first-aid kit, knife, camp shoes (crocs), and clothing. I hope I can keep these additional items under 10 lbs. I would probably spend another $400 on this stuff here.

Given comments I received on gear so far, I am pretty sure this is just too damn heavy.

[Venchka]

I recently saw the original Ridgerest (I own one-it works if you can sleep on 5/8" foam-I can not) at Campmor for $20.
The REI Flash 62 at the REI Outlet is $125 + or -. It may be lighter than the pack you mention.
Every year in May REI has a massive sale. My wife and I cleaned up on Neo Xtherm, REI socks and dry sack, Merrill and Keen shoes for 30% off. Awesome sale.
Why a 2 person tent? Speaking from experience, I outfitted my wife and I for backpacking BEFORE she decided that she was not sleeping on the ground. I suggest you buy a solo tent for you. Make sure you like backpacking. You can always add a double tent later if you need one.
Slow down. You can rent gear first.
Look at LL Bean tents and backpacks. They have a few lightweight items and their warranty is the best. Buy it. Hate it. Refund or exchange. Forever!
Good luck.

Wayne


Sent from somewhere around here.

[quasarr]

Hi AO, welcome to WB! You already have some good advice. I agree that the Kelty Cosmic is a good starter bag, but the REI one you posted is also fine. (The Marmot seems to be 8oz heavier?) Also I second the Ridge Rest, I have used one for hundreds of nights and it is an excellent pad (and it is made in the USA!) However, you probably don't need a large one. The pad doesn't have to go all the way down to your toes. In fact it can stop a little above your knees without hurting your comfort level. You can bring a piece of plastic to act as a ground cloth, and keep your stuff clean in shelters.

I also agree that you were right to nix the bivy. This is the type of product that people *think* ultralight hikers use, which is why many are turned off to UL. And why not - who would want to sleep in that thing??

May I ask how much of that gear list you have already purchased? I think you can go much lighter without spending more money. Feel free to post the items you are thinking of buying from there as well!

[quasarr]

PS I forgot to mention that Crocs are actually pretty heavy, one pair can weigh almost a pound! Maybe consider just a pair of plastic flip-flops instead

[AO2134]

Thanks for the advice quasarr and thanks for the welcome. I will post the gear list. I actually don't have any of it as this point except the cocking set at this point but I do need to start buying things left and right.

2 person tent: 5 lbs, 5 oz. $150 REI Passage 2 Tent on sale for 119.99. http://www.rei.com/product/810115/rei-passage-2-tent I like to stretch out and I am tallish 6 foot so I like the idea of a 2 person and if I bring a friend we can both fit in there in case of an emergency. I will also purchase the footprint. I will likely buy this tomorrow unless I can see a clear better option.
Sleeping System (pad & bag): 5 lbs $150 total: $29.99 for sleeping rad which will be ridgerest. http://www.rei.com/product/810386/th...-sleeping-pad- I am also fairly sold that for my needs and use the Marmot Trestles 30 sleeping bag will be great for $109.00 http://www.rei.com/product/828305/ma...0-sleeping-bag
Pack: 4 lbs 12 oz. $190 REI Yosemite-75. http://www.rei.com/product/862870/rei-yosemite-75-pack. The idea behind it is that I will have heavier (cheaper and bigger gear) so I would need/want a bigger pack.
Cocking System: 1 lb 5 oz $70 MSR pocket rocket and GSI outdoor minimalist cookset.
Water + hydration system + purifies: 5 lbs 12 oz. $ $70. I have bought the sawyer water filter. I plan to buy a platypus 2 L. May consider a 3L but likely a 2. Also already have aquamira.
Food (2-3 nights, 3-4 days): 6 lbs
Headlamp + extra batteries 10 oz $40 I bought it at walmart. I know I got get better, longer lasting. But since I've spent the money, I want to use it. I'll carry the extra batteries.


Shoes: Salomon X-ultra Mid GTX. $160.00. http://www.rei.com/product/857157/sa...ing-shoes-mens . Why this shoe vs. a lighter weight trail runner? I plan to get a trail runner for day hikes, but I want something a little more heavy duty for section hikes or 20+ mile day hikes. Also, I have have a lot of weight, and I think this provides me more support for the extra weight at a decent price.

Socks: I have REI merino wool socks and linners. I will probably switch to smartwool if I don't like these socks. I will likely being a lot more socks then the average person. I have sweaty feet. I will be hiking in summer. The shoes I select aren't exactly breatheable. I've never used liners before so I will test it out, but I plan to bring with me at least 3 socks and 2 linners.

Treeking Polls: Haven't even looked into it yet. Suggestions welcomed, especially those for a very tight budget. I think by my selections above you can get a feel for it.

Clothes: I haven't gotten into this either. As a day hiker, I would just have gym shorts, cotton socks, a cotton t, and reg running shoes. After my recent 30 mile hike and the subsequent pain (knee last for 2 days), right foot pain (couldn't curl my toes) for almost 1 1/2 weeks, god awful blisters (blood and regular), I decided maybe proper footwear may be in order. Any recommendations for clothes on a budget is welcome.

Thanks again guys!

Camp Shoes: I think you gave me a good reason for Flip-flops. Certainly for the AT section hike. The idea of crocs really come into play in water crossings.
So just in that alone I have 28 lbs 12 oz.

[HooKooDooKu]

PS I forgot to mention that Crocs are actually pretty heavy, one pair can weigh almost a pound! Maybe consider just a pair of plastic flip-flops instead

Walmart often has some light-weight shoes for about $10. They cover your toes like crocs, so they are great for water crossing shoes to avoid getting your toes jammed between some rocks.

[AO2134]

Walmart often has some light-weight shoes for about $10. They cover your toes like crocs, so they are great for water crossing shoes to avoid getting your toes jammed between some rocks.

Could you please post a link? I am trying to look for it in the meantime. I am going to walmart in a few for groceries. I may go pick them up if I can find it.

[HooKooDooKu]

Could you please post a link? I am trying to look for it in the meantime. I am going to walmart in a few for groceries. I may go pick them up if I can find it.

Can't find them on line... so you would have to just go look in your local walmart.

But they look something like this style:
http://www.walmart.com/ip/MENS-PERFO...ANDAL/34209752

But it is solid black and made out of a molded piece of plastic like this:
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Men-s-UB-C...-Clog/22572983

I paid around $10, I think the last time I saw them in the store earlier this season, they might have been about $12. $15 would be too much.

[AO2134]

Thank you. I will go take a look today!

[Venchka]

You should learn to shop better.
Did you think about renting gear before buying? The economy needs you spending money. You might benefit more from spending wisely.

http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/...ords=Ridgerest

Wayne


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[quasarr]

I think you will find that lighter gear is often not as expensive as you think, and sometimes cheaper! For example, you can buy a blue foam pad from WalMart for $12, that is pretty similar in weight to the Ridge Rest. The infamous K-Mart Grease Pot weighs almost nothing and costs $9. You can make an alcohol stove out of a cat food can that will cost less than $1 and weigh less than an ounce. (again, alcohol stoves have disadvantages verses a canister, but it is definitely something to consider if you are on a budget!)

http://www.amazon.com/Stanco-Non-Sti.../dp/B000MVTIOQ

http://andrewskurka.com/2011/how-to-...alcohol-stove/

Shedding pounds is cheap, it's the ounces that get expensive I also encourage you to check out the smaller "cottage" manufacturers. Here is a great list you can browse. Some of these (like Zpacks and Western Mountaineering) are high-end, super light, and super expensive. But others, like Six Moons, make gear similar in price to REI but much lighter. And many are made in the USA.

http://blackwoodspress.com/blog/1237...ear-directory/

Anyway, here are some recommendations for what you posted. This is my opinion and everyone's philosophy is different, but most people are happier with a lighter load.

Tent: There are lighter options out there, for example the Lunar Duo is a 2-person tent for $160 and 3.5 pounds. However the Lunar Duo sets up with trekking poles, so if you don't use poles it probably isn't the best choice.

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-...l#.U7CH2_mSyQA

Pack: Plenty of packs are in the 3lb range. I think a big pack just encourages you to fill it up with more stuff Since you are doing summer trips you won't need a lot of bulky warm clothes. And you can also strap your sleeping pad to the outside. REI is having a sale right now on the Flash 62 for $129, and it weighs a pound less than the Yosemite!

http://www.rei.com/product/863029/re...l-buy#specsTab

Cooking: I talked about this a little bit already, but if you use the Fancy Feast home made stove (which is very easy to make) and the K-Mart grease pot, you could spend as little as $10 on this.

Extra batteries: This is unnecessary. Unless you are night hiking you will not run out of batteries in just a few days. Leave them at home!

Clothes: One area where people really go overboard buying expensive things As much as I love a shiny new jacket, you may be able to get away with some clothes you already have. Do you have a fleece pullover? A nylon gym shirt? (Don't use cotton!) Do you have a rain jacket already? I suggest the O2 jacket, which is less than 8oz and only $31!!

http://o2rainwear.com/2011/03/original-hooded-jacket/

Footwear: The cotton socks may have been part of the problem, since cotton hangs on to water your sweaty feet will just be chafing against your wet cotton socks the whole time. If you get a pair of "waterproof" shoes and wear smart wool socks with liners ... you will sweat a LOT! Remember, if it is "waterproof" it will also prevent water from leaving the shoes, meaning your feet will be soaked with your own sweat instead! Trail runners with one pair of socks will breathe much better. Unfortunately this is a very personalized topic so it's hard to give someone advice on what will be best.

Anyway sorry for the long dissertation, I have a lot of opinions so that's that

[Venchka]

I mentioned the Flash 62 in the beginning. Thanks for confirming it.
There is also good, low mileage used gear posted all day long here on WhiteBlaze.
My turn to debunk the "high end gear from companies like Western Mountaineering is expensive". Buy quality once. Cheap gear that doesn't do the job or falls apart in a heartbeat is expensive. Like most people I had to learn this lesson the hard way.
I bought my first quality down bag in the early 1970s. It was not the most expensive on the market. It was several times more than a synthetic bag of that era. I was on a tight budget. I picked the lightest and least expensive 3 season bag in the REI catalog. I have used the bag in the Rockies in September & October. On a couple of occasions I have worn all my clothes and survived. My daughter has used the bag in North Carolina and my granddaughter is using the bag as I type in the Grayson Highlands of Virginia. When I get it back from her I will send it to the folks at Rainy Pass who make it good as again. 40+ years of occasional use and still perfectly useable. If I had cheaped out in the beginning I would have bought several bags by now for money. This has been the most economical bag I could have purchased when I bought. The same goes for the backpack I bought at the same time and is still in service. Quality products are economical. Inferior products are expensive.
End of sermon.

Wayne


Sent from somewhere around here.