UL FOOD (hiker Chow)

[garlic08]

...though in consideration to be as ultralight and time efficient for speed hiking there would be factors of time spent off trail grabbing food and deciding if it is more optimal to carry the slight larger food quantity of food and keep packing miles or pack less so as to be lighter and make more miles and you trade that out for the time spend of trail...?

I agree that time spent on logistics is a concern. For me, it's not a matter of speed, just that I'd rather be out on the trail and not fiddling around running errands in town. Or messing about trying to get to town in the first place. There were many town stops I missed on the AT because a hitch was involved and the standard pack load of food I was used to carrying on other long trails could easily get me 100 miles. (My first stop on the AT was at Franklin NC, over 100 miles in. I easily skipped hitching into Galtlinburg TN, a common stop in the Smokies.) I got pretty good at washing clothes without soap in a stream or lake and wearing them dry to avoid a laundry stop.

That's also a major reason I don't carry a stove. Finding fuel is an errand I never enjoyed. And it's a reason I don't do food drops, with the need to adjust my schedule around what ever place is holding my package. For some reason, the time spent walking the aisles in a small grocery store doesn't bother me, especially if the store is right on the trail. Or sitting in a restaurant with a large salad.

As Dogwood says, you need to develop your own systems and preferences. Mine make no sense to many very experienced hikers. It's good to see and listen to what others do, and selectively modify and adapt them.

[NomadVenture]

WOW, you are bringing a lot of detailed sometimes quite deep considerations into play all of a sudden. Sounds like you are getting ahead of yourself. Consider taking on one long distance speed/record setting hike at a time. This way some of the answers to your questions will get clearer and be more personally focused as you perfect your hiking style like your water wt logistics, personal nutrition, etc. You mentioned Triple Crowning, maxing out your miles(for record setting), Veganism, minimal town stops, ultralight hiking, trail food costs, etc on top of trail nutrition of which you are considering exclusively(?) substituting with powdered food on trail. I see some of those goals as possibly contradictory none the less challenging. I too don't buy into this idea of "ideally balanced." That sounds like a marketing term or something derived from modern Nutritional Science models that theorize food is simply a chemical concoction of the known components. I would like to know WHAT YOU DEFINE as an IDEALLY BALANCED ON TRAIL DIET and how you've arrived at it?

Don't mind getting ahead of my self right now as I debate what methods to trial run through before a "triple crown record setter" -as a vegan unsupported so I believe the triple record is 239 consecutive days December 30, 2005 by Matthew Hazley... though it may be different if you consider adding up the unsupported record for each trail individually. Who know's the unsupported record for all three? (the powdered meal thing really became a big idea when I was on my bike tour more recently) I do remember reading up from one hikers blog about their food choices and they went with a high nutritional density claiming because of raw foods that they realized they didn't need to eat so much (saving weight) only a 3000 calorie intake daily and only lost 6lb on his pct through hike so minimal deficits. ( http://www.rawhike.com/foodplan.shtml ) I'd consider something like the Raw meal replacement a good source of energy and would be consuming a bigger amount to meet my needs, but would consider other powders as options to mix in, to round out and mix up the flavors, I do doubt I will carry only the powder and consider trail mixes and plain nut butters on my TC attempt.

...I would also like to know: 1) the rest of your UL kit, could you post a gear list?, it may be that you could lose wt in other areas of your kit instead of limiting yourself to an all powdered meal on trail hiking diet?, 2) and what's the longest continuous hike you have completed? if you have done a long distance hike can you describe the hiking style and particulars of that hike(diet, avg MPD, what trail/route?, wt carried, typical energy levels, etc

The gear list is in the works trying to consider what weather and terrain I'll be crossing by along the TC. Longest was After hiking SoBo on the AT from DWG PA, my food source was the most problematic. (wasn't vegan during this time frame either) Energy levels were moderate and dwindled down once at the end of PA, but wound up loosing my hunger to much, only ate a 1/2 bagel one day as i couldn't stomach much. Hunger and energy levels came back and my avg mpd were 16, started of hike at 197 lb end hike 170 lb. I planed for the 5000 calories per day but ran into a surplus and a waste of food, to many bars, and to mention the steel cut oats again (planed on them for breakfast every day but a total time and fuel killer...switched to breads and bagels with my coconut pb in the am.) So my first consideration in modification is my food plan, not the place i'd expect to be best to take advantage of weight saving option either but got to tackle all areas.

I'll be planing some trial runs on different sections in the PCT and CDT with the winter and summer gear respectively along with my meal plan. PCT trial would cover WA and the Canada portion, CDT trial would be all of CO and parts of WY

[rafe]

I personally want to have all three macro nutrients (fats, carbs, protein) in my diet. Fats give you energy and have the highest calorie density, so don't skimp on these. Carbs are necessary to maintain blood sugar. If you don't eat them, your body has to make them from protein which is not very efficient. Protein is probably not as important as most people think. Much of the protein you eat will be burned up anyway and your body is better at burning fats and carbs. Put these three together (with more fat and less of the others) with almost no water and minimal packaging and you would have the perfect hiking food. This is pretty much a perfect description of peanut butter.

Protein's important for rebuilding the body -- which takes a beating on the trail. Protein is long-term energy. On the trail you get it from cheese, nuts, peanut butter, energy bars, re-hydrated beans (eg. hummus,) or meats (properly preserved, packaged or dried.) In town, get it from dairy products, eggs, or meat. Most distance hikers I've seen go crazy for dairy (chocolate milk, ice cream, etc.) in town.

Snickers and peanut M&Ms still rule.

[BillyGr]

If you want to know what to take on an UL(record attempt) why not contact Jennifer Pharr Davis? She currently holds the unofficial record for the fastest thru hike of the Appalachian Trail with a time of 46 days, 11 hours, and 20 min. and could give you some great food options, I'm sure.

Except that she had people following her with supplies, which would likely mean she didn't need to be extremely light (as she wasn't carrying most of her gear, it was brought to her as various stop points). Probably in many cases even having meals ready for her to eat when she arrived at a certain point?

[CalebJ]

Matt Kirk would be the more obvious one to follow. He's listed some/all of his packing choices online in the past. He had a thai peanut ramen recipe that was pretty good, and I think coconut oil was another of his go-to choices.

[Dogwood]

The picture becomes clearer. Thank you. But, the complexity deepens. 1) TC in under a yr with the goal from the onset of attaining a speed record for doing the TC. 2) you are attempting it unsupported(I thought that was what you were attempting). It sounds like you are stuck exclusively on powdered foods on trail. That's different than what Doug did. Doug supplemented his powdered drinks with other whole living foods which is exactly what I told you Raw Food enthusiasts or Vegans that I've known opt for both on and off trail. IMHO, the logistics of thru-hiking the three TC trails in basically a non-stop succession in a sub 240 day time frame are FAR FAR more important than adopting a powdered meal only trail diet in order to POSSIBLY save a couple of lbs!!! I see you going into town or off trail to pick up mailed resupply boxes more often than you think.

[Dogwood]

Are you saying you hiked the AT SOBO from DWG to the southern terminus? And, lost 27 lbs? I find that difficult to continue if you extend those stats to the entire TC with a 240 sub day time frame. That isn't going to work. Too much wt loss! It'll catch up with you at some pt! You aren't getting the nutrition you need to sustain you on a TC trail thru-hike of only a 16 MPD average AND CERTAINLY NOT FOR A TC IN UNDER A YEAR with a RECORD SETTING TIME FRAME with those stats.

[Dogwood]

JPD was supported and she had thru-hiked the AT on two previous occasions. Different situation.

[DLP]

...don't know if a bear would eat the meal replacement powder

Bears and rodents will happily eat anything that is food or food-ish. My neighbor had a bear eat his orange scented dish soap.

[NomadVenture]

Are you saying you hiked the AT SOBO from DWG to the southern terminus? And, lost 27 lbs?

That was my first long distance hike, resulted in much needed weight loss (though to rapid i will say) I Managed fine most the way, and this was before i went vegan so my diet was everywhere and so i've taken the time since then cleaning it up. I rebounded to 180 lb and then within the next year keeping a higher activity level and being vegan i'm below 160 lb, and have been great for my other short hikes and bike rides (I ride a bike every day for my summer job, Who's heard of pedicabs?) So with this sustained activity level I've gotten used to my diet and it throws me off when i'm not out and active for to long)

I do feel that with my current abilities it'd be much easier to pull of the TC maybe in two years (though financially that's a different story) The first hike went sour and somehow lost my hunger (maybe it's better now bec i'm a vegan ... or just at a healthy weight), i am 6ft...

But it just goes into what might be the most optimal be it a combination of powdered meals and whole foods or sticking to the singular option.

[Venchka]

Except that she had people following her with supplies, which would likely mean she didn't need to be extremely light (as she wasn't carrying most of her gear, it was brought to her as various stop points). Probably in many cases even having meals ready for her to eat when she arrived at a certain point?

Totally correct. I read her book recently. That doesn't diminish her accomplishment in the least.

Wayne


Sent from somewhere around here.

[Venchka]

I should have been more specific. The book I mentioned above is "Called Again." The account of Jennifer's very well supported record on the AT. It was a total team effort. Jennifer's task was to hike. Her support team, led by her husband, handled everything else. As for nutrition, her diet was not be appropriate for this thread.

Wayne

[Dogwood]

In todays society we can let ourselves by default fall into a frantic multitasking see it all get er done if anything is worth doing it's worth doing fast mindset. We can be channeled into living that way from many sources. You could certainly choose to long distance hike that way but realize you have a choice. WHY do you hike? One of the wonderful characteristics of long distance hiking is the individual has the ability to decide on the conditional aspects they place on their hikes. Consider carefully all the conditional aspects you place on your hikes as they can back you into a corner making your hiking ultimately not what you thought it would be.

[MuddyWaters]

I pretty much eat the same thing every day already on the trail, at least for a week to two weeks at a time.. Im too lazy to figure out different options, and you save a few $ buying bulk packages.


granola
tortillas and peanut butter
noodle dinners
mms
trail mix

I might eat them in a different order each day, but day in , day out, its the same thing.

I like restaurants too.

[kayak karl]

Totally correct. I read her book recently. That doesn't diminish her accomplishment in the least.

Wayne


Sent from somewhere around here.

i don't think it was meant to diminish her accomplishment, but you would probably want a NON supported hikers food menu.

[q-tip]

If anyone is interested, I hae a number of calorie requirements/FOOD LISTS that might be helpful. Send me you email on a PM and I will forward, Q.

[NomadVenture]

In todays society we can let ourselves by default fall into a frantic multitasking see it all get er done if anything is worth doing it's worth doing fast mindset. We can be channeled into living that way from many sources. You could certainly choose to long distance hike that way but realize you have a choice. WHY do you hike? One of the wonderful characteristics of long distance hiking is the individual has the ability to decide on the conditional aspects they place on their hikes. Consider carefully all the conditional aspects you place on your hikes as they can back you into a corner making your hiking ultimately not what you thought it would be.

It's not about a "worth doing fast mindset", my ambitions are about pushing my abilities to an optimal level to accomplish a goal I could leisurely hike the TC in a year and spend about 20 grand doing so and not backing myself into a corner. And I have that intention planed with other hikes and trip I make to be more leisurely with out the factors i'm placing into my TC hiking goal. To me doing this hike would be more of a personal vendetta but also hope it could be an eye opener for others.

Goal with this post is to find out about other peoples optimal UL food option, though I realize most of the figuring it out will have to rely on testing things myself, and testing ideas for the first time potentially since I want to do this hike Vegan + No heat, Unsupported, so I figure there hasn't been a lot of exploration into this field of hiker how-to's.

[Venchka]

Get thee to Trader Joe's. They have a mind boggling array of no-cook trail foods at reasonable prices. I was particularly impressed by their assortment of freeze-dried fruits based on variety and price per ounce versus REI. The seed & nut selection is extensive as well.
Good luck!

Wayne

[Venchka]

If you want to know what to take on an UL(record attempt) why not contact Jennifer Pharr Davis? She currently holds the unofficial record for the fastest thru hike of the Appalachian Trail with a time of 46 days, 11 hours, and 20 min. and could give you some great food options, I'm sure.

From memory after reading "Called Again":
MacDonald's, milk shakes, Subway, yogurt, McDonald's, trail bars, Subway, milk shakes, ice cream, Subway, pizza, McDonald's...whatever her husband could find and get to her at the next road crossing. Tofu & sprouts were never mentioned.

Wayne

[soulrebel]

For this kinda stuff, I use hammer nutrition. maltodextrin instead of sugar, so no crash and burn... I'll buy whey and add that for protein. It has an absorption (PER) around 100 and the whey isolate has absorption around 153. Both are great for recovery... I'll use perpeteum or sustained energy which are a premixed prot/carb mix or if i'm eating jerky and just need more carbs i'll use Carbopro or Heed, both are excellent at adding easily digested calories without GI upset. and their vegan...I don't really use them for hiking as much as I do for running or cyclin'. Usually heat and intensity, lead more toward more liquid based calories that are easy to digest, preferably not sugar based. If and when I eat candy, it's in the afternoon and i try to follow up with a dinner not too long after...carbs are digested differently. Anyhow, if i usually mix a concentrate bottle of about 400-600cals and sip on that over a couple hours while the other bottle is plain water...I'll eat some gel and electrolytes tabs if it's hot and follow up with a whey shake at the end...and eat normal food once i'm done doing the high intensity activity that requires that stuff. I don't mix regular sugars with the maltodextrin...it messes up the digestion of both of them...one or the other. my 2c have fun out there...

P.s. lil green drink, seaweed, sprouted chia are some natural items but they aren't very immediate in what they do...better as recovery foods.