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  1. #1
    Registered User Kookork's Avatar
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    Default What would you do in this Situation?

    You are thru hiking a very long trail and tired of hours of daily walk reach to a beautiful spot and decide to rest for 10 minutes.

    After couple of minutes you notice a small stream of water is passing through the trail unnecessarily. If you spend 5 minutes there and adjust some small and medium rocks you can divert the stream out of the trail. Sun is burning hot over your head and you are just about a quarter into the trail.

    The question is: What would you really do in this situation?

  2. #2
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    I've been in similar situations, and when I can make simple changes to water management on the trail, I make them.

  3. #3
    Ricky and his Husky Jack
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    its not like "leave no trace" applies to this.

    The A.T. clubs do this all the time. If you see something simple you think You can do to protect the trail, do it.
    Me: Ricky
    Husky: Jack
    Skeeter-Beeter Pro Hammock.
    From Dalton, Georgia (65 mi above Altanta, 15mi south of Chattanooga)

  4. #4
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    Well, of course, I would get a drink.

  5. #5

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    Hey Kookork, been awhile, good ta see ya postin, hope your gettin in some hikin.

    Small changes make small changes. But sometimes small changes make big changes. If said rock, or wooden step were just out of place of an existing erosional prevention feature, I'd put it back (and have) other wise, I'd move on allowing those clubs that maintain, to maintain. Spose one could contact the overseeing club.

  6. #6
    Clueless Weekender Another Kevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rocketsocks View Post
    Hey Kookork, been awhile, good ta see ya postin, hope your gettin in some hikin.

    Small changes make small changes. But sometimes small changes make big changes. If said rock, or wooden step were just out of place of an existing erosional prevention feature, I'd put it back (and have) other wise, I'd move on allowing those clubs that maintain, to maintain. Spose one could contact the overseeing club.
    What he said. If "adjusting the rocks" is clearing an obvious waterbar or restoring the grade of an obvious Coweeta dip, I'll make the repair. But I certainly won't try to build a waterbar, because doing it wrong will do more harm than good. They need to be nearly solid rock. Little rocks will just get undercut by the flowing water. They need to be trenched half the height of the rock, and the waterbar has to be embedded a foot into the hill on the uphill side and six inches on the downhill side. If you use a log instead of rock, then you need rebar to stabilize it.

    Simply placing stone that the water can undermine will just result in the stone being undermined, with a worse problem than before you started.
    I always know where I am. I'm right here.

  7. #7
    Registered User Ktaadn's Avatar
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    I would get out my camera and look for the large animal urinating just off trail.

  8. #8
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    I'll give a bigger PCT example. We came across a trench a meter deep and wide and many meters long right in the middle of the tread. There were two problems. One is that the tread wasn't correctly out sloped, which allowed water to run down the trail. When this happens on a small scale, it's easy enough to kick the berm and allow water to flow directly off in a few places than letting it flow down the tread and pick up speed where it can cause some real damage. This wasn't a small amount of water, but it would have been easy to stop if caught in time. There was a log upstream that fell and diverted the water from it's original bed that sent water through a water feature on the trail. That log was easy to move, but no one made that simple change in time, and the damage was immense when the spring melt hit full flow.

  9. #9
    Registered User Kookork's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rocketsocks View Post
    Hey Kookork, been awhile, good ta see ya postin, hope your gettin in some hikin.

    Small changes make small changes. But sometimes small changes make big changes. If said rock, or wooden step were just out of place of an existing erosional prevention feature, I'd put it back (and have) other wise, I'd move on allowing those clubs that maintain, to maintain. Spose one could contact the overseeing club.
    Thank you for noticing me rocketsocks!!.

    I have recently moved from Toronto to a small farmland base city named Chesley just 130 miles north of Toronto(population 1500 ). Almost rural community. It is a totally different lifestyle and mindset. I am adjusting to the new lifestyle and so far so good. I have my first tomato garden in 3 years and catching 2 pound bass in backyard is not hurting also.

    Poeple in Toronto mostly have no interest in the rural side and farmer lifestyle and the history of farming communities. My dog likes the woods and I am rediscovering the sun and sound of birds.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kookork View Post
    Thank you for noticing me rocketsocks!!.

    I have recently moved from Toronto to a small farmland base city named Chesley just 130 miles north of Toronto(population 1500 ). Almost rural community. It is a totally different lifestyle and mindset. I am adjusting to the new lifestyle and so far so good. I have my first tomato garden in 3 years and catching 2 pound bass in backyard is not hurting also.

    Poeple in Toronto mostly have no interest in the rural side and farmer lifestyle and the history of farming communities. My dog likes the woods and I am rediscovering the sun and sound of birds.
    Sounds real nice, especially the back yard honey hole for bass...good deal, and in my book...Priceless.

  11. #11
    Registered User Kookork's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Another Kevin View Post
    What he said. If "adjusting the rocks" is clearing an obvious waterbar or restoring the grade of an obvious Coweeta dip, I'll make the repair. But I certainly won't try to build a waterbar, because doing it wrong will do more harm than good. They need to be nearly solid rock. Little rocks will just get undercut by the flowing water. They need to be trenched half the height of the rock, and the waterbar has to be embedded a foot into the hill on the uphill side and six inches on the downhill side. If you use a log instead of rock, then you need rebar to stabilize it.

    Simply placing stone that the water can undermine will just result in the stone being undermined, with a worse problem than before you started.
    Are you this meticulous in your daily life Another Kevin?

    Do you enjoy analyzing everything in detail and do you try to quantify the quality?Any success?

    Consider this an honest curiosity please.

  12. #12
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    Never really considered "fixing" the trail while hiking it, else I'd never get anywhere. Maybe push away a loose rock or fallen branch, but not much more than that.

  13. #13
    Clueless Weekender Another Kevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kookork View Post
    Are you this meticulous in your daily life Another Kevin?

    Do you enjoy analyzing everything in detail and do you try to quantify the quality?Any success?

    Consider this an honest curiosity please.
    I think I'll plead guilty to overthinking things and being too wordy.

    He who knows: he is silent.
    He who speaks: he does not know.

    By nature, I'm a Confucian or a Legalist trying and failing to comprehend the Dao. I go hiking to try to turn that sort of thing off.
    I always know where I am. I'm right here.

  14. #14
    LT '79; AT '73-'14 in sections; Donating Member Kerosene's Avatar
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    Kevin clearly has an engineering background of some sort. Even I have never used the word "flocculent" in a post!

    What his post does make clear, however, is that installing a viable water bar is no simple task. Given my poor mechanical abilities, I limit myself to moving branches off-trail and clearing out at least one water bar a day.
    GA←↕→ME: 1973 to 2014

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kookork View Post
    Are you this meticulous in your daily life Another Kevin?

    Do you enjoy analyzing everything in detail and do you try to quantify the quality?Any success?

    Consider this an honest curiosity please.

    Thing is...he's so damn good at it.

    Reply's worth reading.

    The trouble I have with campfires are the folks that carry a bottle in one hand and a Bible in the other.
    You never know which one is talking.

  16. #16
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    I don't want to take anything away from Kevin, but you learn that kind of information when you work with a trail maintenance crew, and if you do, you'll learn it again in the trail maintenance guides published by the forest service, AMC, SCA, etc.

  17. #17
    lemon b's Avatar
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    I would leave it alone. Just make sure Cosmo whose in charge of those matters for the local club got the word. Because I know he has to follow certain proceedures in certain areas. Like from Washington Mt Road Northbound the trail is on Federal Conservation land. They have certain rules and sometimes wildlife is involved. Like the beavers flooding the trail. He needed to check with the Feds before doing a reroute.

  18. #18

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    It sounds like a nice spot. I might look for a spot to set up my tent and stay for the night.
    Whether you think you can, or think you can't--you're right--Henry Ford; The Journey Is The Destination

  19. #19
    Clueless Weekender Another Kevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerosene View Post
    Kevin clearly has an engineering background of some sort.
    You nailed that one! BA in math, MS EE, PhD computer science. About thirty years in professional practice, the last 23 of them for GE Research, doing mostly image-guided instrumentation and control. Applications have ranged from TV networks to jet engines to medical diagnostics. I like the breadth of work; that's one nice thing about working for an outfit as diverse as GE. (And da longer ve vork here, diverse it gets...)
    I always know where I am. I'm right here.

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by WingedMonkey View Post
    Thing is...he's so damn good at it.

    Reply's worth reading.

    Another Kelvin (and I say this with thee most respect and admiration) is one of the smartest, humble, funniest Phd'd engineers I've ever met, and I've taken direction from quite a few. It would be a joy to work at his direction, or just tag along on another hike...Aces in my book. I hope you do get a chance to hike with him WM, it's a good time.

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