Frameless packs

[he.who.forgets]

Was hoping to get some feedback from anyone who uses or have used a frameless pack. I'm in the market, and a couple people I know swear by frameless packs. For instance the Virga 2 from Granite Gear: http://www.rei.com/product/865970/gr...descriptionTab
Lightweight and pretty cheap compared with similar size packs. I just don't want to pull the trigger on one of these and be miserable after 10 miles. FYI, I'm hoping to stay close to 25 lbs, maybe close to 30 max with 5 days food/water. Any insight is appreciated!

[Ricky&Jack]

I don't know that pack so i checked it out. Not bad.

Can it hold 25-30 lbs easily?

I know thats for UL hikers. But don't UL hikers usually stay below 20 lbs? (Im not sure the definition of UL but may want to make sure to know that pack will hold 25-30 lbs)

[he.who.forgets]

A friend thru-ed with an older version of this same pack with an average weight of around 25lb, max 30lb, which is exactly where I hope to be. I'm more curious as to why people prefer a frameless pack opposed to an internal frame. Is it the weight savings? Are they as comfortable or do you compromise a little comfort for simplicity's sake?

[Venchka]

Check out the original frameless backpack, the Jensen pack, online at Rivendell Mountain Works. I bought mine in 1974 or 1975. It still functions as it did new. It is slightly heavier (a few ounces) than current packs because it is built with 1000D Cordura nylon which means bulletproof. The design transfer weight to the hips just like a sturdy hip belt. The Jensen comes in 4 torso lengths to fit most people.
http://www.rivendellmountainworks.com/

Look for my thread "How much does a 63 liter pack hold" in the Pack section of the Gear Forum.
Bottom line: my Jensen pack carries a load well. It is different. It works.

Wayne


Sent from somewhere around here.

[Venchka]

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showpost.php?p=1890246

Wayne


Sent from somewhere around here.

[garlic08]

I've seen hikers miserable with frameless packs, but they're the ones carrying 35 pounds stuffed into them, having just reduced their load from 40 pounds by buying a frameless pack. That doesn't seem to work so well.

I didn't try a frameless pack (I use Gossamer Gear most of the time) until I got my base weight under ten pounds. Going frameless for me required a whole new style of hiking, which took a couple of packs, and several long hikes over several seasons to develop. Along the way I used some "hybrid" packs with very light frames (plastic sheet) or with removable stays.

[Slo-go'en]

If you need to carry 25-30 pounds I see no point in saving (X) ounces on a frameless pack. In the long haul, you'd be much better off with a decent load distributing frame and a good suspension.

Frameless is more suited to light loads, say 15 pounds total (food +water). And this is typically while using a closed cell foam pad as a "frame"

Of course, YMMV, so the only way to find out if it works for you is to try it. Preferably before it's too late to make changes

[quasarr]

Switching to a frameless pack can save you pounds, not ounces! Even the lightest internal frame packs are around 3 lbs, while many frameless options are close to 1 lb, like the Virga mentioned in the OP. And if you have some monstrous Gregory or something, you could be saving as much as 5 lbs by switching! But as others have mentioned, the upper limit that a UL pack can carry is 25 - 30 lbs. (check the manufacturer's recommendation)

So the frameless pack has to be used as part of a transition to a lightweight kit. It is a positive feedback loop - if your gear is lighter, you don't need such a heavy-duty pack to carry it!

Also you can roll up a foam sleeping pad inside the pack to create a tube, you stuff everything inside and it makes a sort of frame.

And let me say a few words about durability. People often think that UL gear is as fragile as a butterfly and will tear apart the second you step into the wilderness. But I believe that simplicity = durability. Often with a heavy but "durable" pack, the first thing to go is one of the many extra zippers and toggles and buckles and straps and so on! (Especially zippers!!) But a UL pack is just a sack with a drawstring. My Gossamer Gear Mariposa (purchased in 2008) has been with me for thousands of trail miles, and thousands more travelling around Europe and Asia.

And to the OP, if you are considering such a pack, it would probably help to lighten your base weight a little bit. Seems you are at the upper limit for this. Also I recommend looking at the cottage manufacturers. There are many options online, where you will be supporting a hiker-owned business, and buying a product that was made in the USA.

For example,

http://www.equinoxltd.com/the-gear/b...eagle-pack.cfm

http://www.mountainlaureldesigns.com...roducts_id=103

[daddytwosticks]

I have an older model ULA Conduit (2008) that I modified (shortened the straps). I've carried weight into the lower 20's and have been very comfortable. I think it weighs about 20 ounces when I used it. I haven't used it in a long time. In fact, I may be willing to sell it if you are interested in trying a frameless pack out. I didn't like the back pack fabric being stuck to my back when I hiked. I now use an Osprey Exos 46. Love the ventilated back panel.

[Venchka]

This is not a "sack with a drawstring."

http://www.rivendellmountainworks.co...less-backpack/

Original Jensen...

2012-Jensen.jpg

The Giant Jensen...

Brown-Giant.jpg

A bit of history...

http://www.oregonphotos.com/Rivendell-1.html

http://hikinginfinland.com/2010/07/i...ain-works.html

Cottage made in Seattle, USA.

Wayne

[Just Bill]

Was hoping to get some feedback from anyone who uses or have used a frameless pack. I'm in the market, and a couple people I know swear by frameless packs. For instance the Virga 2 from Granite Gear: http://www.rei.com/product/865970/gr...descriptionTab
Lightweight and pretty cheap compared with similar size packs. I just don't want to pull the trigger on one of these and be miserable after 10 miles. FYI, I'm hoping to stay close to 25 lbs, maybe close to 30 max with 5 days food/water. Any insight is appreciated!

There is more to the frameless pack than simply the weight. Most folks integrate their sleeping pad in order to provide some stiffness and serve as a light frame. A true frameless pack is generally comfy for most normal folks in the 15-20lb range. Adding a foam pad and making a tube frame can take that into the 25lb range. Generally as Garlic and others say- the whole system is a package- and just swapping a pack out won't work unless you know what you are getting into.

Perhaps a better option for you- http://www.rei.com/product/864669/os...-pack#specsTab
Remove the brain (lid) and this pack is under 2lbs at a reasonable cost. The hip portion of the frame was a bit tight for me, but this pack easily handles 40lbs.
More importantly- it handles a load regardless of how you pack it or what you put in.
To achieve comfort with a frameless pack you need to be packing the right stuff and have experience packing it. In addition, if your trip type changes or gear selection varies you may struggle getting your pack to carry right.

[he.who.forgets]

Thanks everyone, just the responses I was hoping for. I'll continue to try and trim my base weight and see if I can find a few frameless packs to try out before taking the plunge.

[Ricky&Jack]

yeah.

Cause if you buy a pack first, you probably won't comfortably use it til you get lighter gear.

I would recommend buying lighter gear first, and once you have your base weight down, THEN get the pack.
(You don't want to buy the pack first, and find out you still need to use your old pack because your gear is still to heavy)

[soulrebel]

I hiked with a frameless pack for a lot of miles, even that GG Virga for about 800mi. My system fell apart when i moved to an inflatable air mattress and no longer had a CC foam pad as an internal column. It had more room but even with perfectly fitting stuff sack cylinders in the column it doesn't ride as well as my ext frame pack i'm using now...so unless i got back to using a 3/4 ridgerest my frameless pack days are left to packrafting...where a pack with a frame could get damaged on the river...

[colorado_rob]

Thanks everyone, just the responses I was hoping for. I'll continue to try and trim my base weight and see if I can find a few frameless packs to try out before taking the plunge.

You might want to check out "nearly frameless" packs... the ULA OHM 2.0 is a good example; it has a 1.5 ounce graphite loop-frame around the perimeter which keeps the pack upright and "open" if you follow, and provides a bit of support. ULA packs are becoming very popular, for good reason. I love my OHM 2.0 and have decided to buy my wife one for her birthday. The ULA circuit has more of a frame, I believe, and more support, but weighs significantly more. My OHM 2.0, size large, weighs 28 ounces, and is approximately 50 liters in equivalent size (it carries more than my 46 liter Osprey Exos); not an ultralight pack, but pretty darn light for having a bit of a frame and support. My old Osprey Exos weighs nearly a pound more, and yes has a much better frame, but the ULA Ohm 2.0 is actually more comfortable for me with the same carried weight. This all being said, I would not carry an OHM 2.0 with more than high-20's pounds of weight, but is very comfortable at low-mid 20's.

[shakey_snake]

Also, the new Six Moon Designs Flight packs are the same kind of nearly frameless design.


If you want a 2LB-ish framed pack, you actually have a lot of frame options. The new Exos is pretty much an external frame, you have hoop designs like the aforementioned SMD flight, you have T-shaped frames like the exped lightning.