food cache for LT self-supported record attempt?

[Josh D]

I'm planning on doing another speed hike of the LT this summer, but this time I want to take a serious shot at the record. I'm looking to do a self-support hike in under 6 days, with two resupplies so that I am never carrying more than 2 days of food at a time. I'm planning my second resupply for the Inn at Long Trail, it's in a perfect spot, 104 miles from the the southern terminus. the first resupply is a little bit trickier. I'd like to avoid hitching into town if possible as you can't be sure how long it will take to get in and out and an extra hour or two in town can really slow you down. I was thinking about stashing some food somewhere just north of camels hump. but I wanted to get some opinions on whether or not stashing food would be within the rules of a self supported record attempt?

[Slo-go'en]

I suppose if your stashing the food, your supporting yourself. I would suggest hanging it in a tree a bit off the trail at the parking lot before you start towards Camels hump. Just make sure you can find it again. Maybe in a 5 gallon bucket, but make sure you go back and get it after your done.

[swjohnsey]

The five gallon bucket thing worked good in the 100 mile wilderness.

[Miner]

I would think you are essentially doing the same thing as having someone show up at the trail with your food except you left it yourself. Usually self supported means you are just like every other hiker out there. So unless most hikers are leaving a food cache for themselves, I would think that many would have issues if this is for an official record attempt.

[swjohnsey]

I thought self-supported meant depending on no one else for support.

[Deadeye]

There are no rules! There is nobody keeping official records of speed hikes on the LT, so just keep true to yourself. Stashing food before you leave sounds self-supported to me. In most of my LT hikes, I stash bear canisters along the way to avoid going into town, I've never considered that to be external support. Then again, I never cared.... it was just how I got my food.

[Miner]

If you are just doing a speed hike, then yes, there are no rules. However, if you are going for an official record, there are rules you have to follow. Since most trail agencies don't officially recognize speed records (ATC and PCTA don't formally do so), so usually the rules are set by the previous record holder. If you want to beat their record, you have to play by their rules or you'd end up with an asterisk next to your name listing the exceptions you did to those rules which many would use to debate if you really broke it. If you are gong for an official record, do you really want to have a record that many don't accept? So the question is, what are they for the LT? Who has the current official record? If no one has bothered to do an offical record hike before on the LT, then as the first person, you get to set the rules until the record is broken and then if the next person sets stricter rules, then those are the rules that people play with.

As an example, the PCT has very strict rules for self supported set by the previous record holder, Scott Williamson, that Amish had to follow to beat it in 2013 (which included no hitchhiking, you had to walk into all your resupplies). He set the rules the way he did so it took all variance out of a record attempt (ie. one person got a ride into town in an hour while the next guy took only 5 minutes).

[Just Bill]

Josh-
Generally speaking- if you wish to claim a record the only rule is that you follow the guidelines set by the current record holder.
So who's record?
Jenn's- you are fine with stashing food.
Travis's- you cannot resupply.

If you think you can crack 6 days, you may strongly consider going unsupported, or at least trying it out in your training. I agree that every ounce counts in your efforts, but if it appears that you have the skillset to crack six days think hard about if that strategy could be incorporated.

If the overall goal is a personal one, then achieve it by whatever means works for you and go from there...personally, if I felt I was close to breaking Travis's time I would go for it and carry the few extra pounds to start or at least train with that goal in mind.

But no reason not to go for Jenn's record- I may know somebody who once thought that might be fun.

From FKT- http://fastestknowntime.proboards.co.../long-trail-vt
"The Long Trail has also seen some fast self-supported trips. Self-supported means that you don't carry everything you need from the start, but you don't have dedicated, pre-arranged people helping you. You might put out stashes of supplies for yourself prior to the trip, or you might just use what's out there, such as stores, begging from other trail users, etc. Jennifer Pharr-Davis holds the fastest time for a self-supported trip on the Long Trail, 7d15h40m, in August 2007. Prior to Kimball, this was also the overall fastest time for a female. "

[bigcranky]

I've seen Josh hike -- I'm quite sure he has the skill set to do this

Carrying six days of food is a lot for this sort of hiking, though, so I can see the appeal of only needing two days at a time. The Inn is easy, it's just a "mail drop." Duxbury Rd is harder -- it took us 40 minutes to hitch into Waterbury there (though the market in town is terrific), and it would probably take two hours or more to resupply in town. Not good.

I'm not familiar with the etiquette on this sort of attempt, so I can't say one way or the other, but I expect I could hang a 5-gal contractor's bucket and it would be fine for a few days in the woods well off the trail. Should be easy to find for the person who hung it, too.

Good luck, Josh!

[MuddyWaters]

I would investigate the legality of a food cache first for the spot you need. As a starting point, i would say nothing you do should be illegal. I know a lot of people do it, not sure all legally. Many state and federal land have laws against it.

[fredmugs]

Are we transitioning from Every child wins a medal to Every child sets a record? The entire reason self supported records take longer is it involves all the things you want to avoid. Break the record and you will be the Rosie Ruiz of the hiking world.

[Kerosene]

While we certainly weren't going for a speed record, I buried a food cache in a small copse of trees just outside of the Jonesville General Store at US-2. Of course, that was 35 years ago and I believe things have changed just a bit since then, but that crossing would be just north of Camels Hump. I do recall reading something that the LT has been re-routed to avoid the road walk to an auto bridge, but again, I think you would find options at the US-2 trailhead. Could be a tree-hang, bury a bucket, or even find a home fairly near the trailhead and ask them to hold it for you. I prefer the hanging a critter-proof bucket, but just make sure that you provide yourself with multiple indicators (GPS, little cairns, self-made map) of how to find your hang and use reflectors so you can find it in low-light. Also, put a note into the bucket in case someone finds it so they know how important it is to you.

Best of luck.

[swjohnsey]

To find cache, big landmark that is on map easy to locate, (road junction, etc, not stream junction). Azimuth to small land mark (big oak tree, prominent rock, etc), azimuh and pace count to cache.

[Josh D]

thanks for all the feedback! I've decided that to me a self-supported hike means typical thru-hiker fashion. I didn't stash any food when I hiked the LT last year, or the AT a few years ago, so I don't think I should do it this time around. Figuring out resupply is just part of the game.

Bill: As far as the whole Travis / Jenn thing. my goal is to set a self-supported record (Jenn's record) but I wouldn't think of it as any kind of record unless i surpassed the unsupported record (travis's) because it is a faster time under more difficult circumstances. So if I complete my hike in under 6 days 17 hours I will consider it to be a self-supported speed record on the LT (whether anyone else would consider it a record would be for them to decide.) I tried starting with 7 days a food last year and I hated it. Ultimately this is nothing more than a personal challenge but I want to do it in a way I find enjoyable. I like traveling light and have no interest in carrying 7 days of food because that's what someone else did, my record attempt would not impact Travis's in any way.

[Just Bill]

Hey Josh-
FWIW- I planned on Jonesville PO initially but ended up knocking it down to just Inn at LT because of the bad hours at the P.O.
If there was some top secret place to break up the northern stretch (without hitching) I don't know it- ultimately I just bit the bullet on that 160 or so mile stretch.
The only technique/trick I may suggest. I was happy with my 1:00 pm start as I had lots of night hiking planned. On the plus side of that strategy- I was able to tank up on a huge breakfast at the North Troy Inn and bring a big sandwich "to go" in a brown bag and have a second big town meal before leaving the border. If all went as planned that would have allowed me to arrive at the Inn in time for a late lunch/dinner tank up (no stay) before leaving. With that in mind I went a hair lite on the food figuring the big morning calories the first day and going a little hungry on my way to the Inn as I knew I could score a big makeup meal there. About the only trick I can think of really for a SOBO trip and it basically dropped that carry from 4 days to 3 from a weight perspective.

Trying to starve yourself a bit going NOBO leaves you pretty screwed as you still have a good bit of work to get out unless you have somebody waiting at Journey's end- going a bit light SOBO it's easier to get to a meal fast.

Jonesville PO- 3459 E. Main St, Jonesville VT 8-10 3-5 802-434-2684
Inn at long trail- 1-800-325-2540

I heartily agree with your definition of self-supported, eventually if you've still got the AT on your radar caches would be no go.

Your effort would definitely count as a new FKT replacing Jenn's time. As you mention- it wouldn't affect Travis's record at all.

If you beat Jenn- I'd claim it. If nothing else I always recall poor Brett Maune. When he set the JMT FKT he faced a lot of doubt because he had no "resume", it wasn't until he won the Barkley that the grumbling died down. Point being- get your name on the books if you beat Jenn's time regardless of if you best Travis. I agree with your sentiment, it's more of a "notational" record as Travis went faster under harder conditions- but it's still a record regardless and worth taking on your resume. Besides- no one yet has been able to claim beating JPD- bull**** record or not that's pretty cool.

[Vaca Fuerte]

Hi Josh, I'm also thinking of a self-supported record attempt on the LT this summer, so maybe see you out there! One question, I had the idea that hitching was now a no-go, as per the Scott Williamson/Matt Kirk "rules"? (I know, "rules" sounds ridiculous, but you know what I mean.) Maybe we should decide on this beforehand to avoid overlapping attempts in different styles??

Alicia

[Slo-go'en]

A couple of years ago when I did my last LT E2E, I met a woman who tried to break the woman's supported record. She was at the bar at the Inn at the Long trail the day I showed up there and she had just finished. She came close, but missed it by over a full day. She was from Colorado and told me she had NO IDEA the LT would be so hard. She looked really beat up and her feet were a mess.

[Josh D]

Some folks out west tend to think our eastern trails are easier because we don't have the 10,000+ foot summits, but for me when you're trying to move that fast it's not the elevation gain and loss that will do you in, it's the trail conditions. The LT has the rockiest, rootiest, muddiest trails I have come across. I live in Vermont and hiked the trial last year in 9 days which totally kicked my ass but I think if I put in enough training and keep my pack weight under 10 lbs at all times I can take a good portion of time off my last attempt.

[Starchild]

Mail drops are allowed for self supported? It seems very similar to caching your own food. You are just paying for a person to deliver it for you.

[Vaca Fuerte]

Yes, everybody seems to at least be able to agree that mail drops are allowed. I think Josh is right that the easiest way to think about it is to just think what typical thru-hiker fashion would be. Would cached food be available to your average hiker? no. Would your average hiker have maildrops? yes.

...which is why I personally think that hitching should be legit, but I recognize I'm in the minority on that one so I'm willing to just go along with the majority to keep things consistent.