Down Quilt

[RagingHampster]

Well Thru-Hiker.com is not answering calls or shipping until mid/late January, so I ordered elsewhere. I purchased my 800fill down directly from Feathered Friends, and they recommended Seattle Fabrics, so the 1.1oz ripstop nylons came from them.

I still have yet to completely decide on what to officially make. At first I wanted a 5' x 7.5' x 2.5" rectangular blanket, then I was going to taper it down to a big roomy footbox. My ground pad is a behemoth 25" x 77" x 2.5" Therm-A-Rest Camp Rest, plenty of ground insulation for 4-season use. It's surface is also soft and nice next to the skin. I think I am going to make a blanket which affixes to the bottom under-edge of the pad via long nylon tailing strips with velcro tabs. The long sides and one end will have a full length 1" wide strip of nylon sewn to it, and on this nylon will be a strip of ultralight velcro (the loop portion). Bordering the matching edges of the underneath of my pad will be the velcro hook strips. This will allow me to fully secure the quilt when it's freezing out, and just drape it over, or roll back one side when it's nice out. It will be a hoodless design, so I will use a down hood (from my future down jacket) or TNF Windstopper Highpoint Hat to battle the cold. I also have a silk baselayer Balaclava made by silkskins that I can use. It will also be roomy enough for lots of twisting and turning, and the use of a down jacket when the temps really plummet.

I tried getting a light color for the top, and a dark for the bottom. I wanted black underneath and sky blue on top. I ended up with my sky blue for the top, but the darkest color they had was navy, so that will have to suffice for the bottom. Weight should be somewhere in the vicinity of 1.5lbs for the blanket. I'm willing to go up to 2lbs though if I feel like overstuffing (which I ordered enough down to do). I'm going to try it out in one of my tents before sewing up the side with various amounts of down. I want a comfortable 20* quilt when used in combination with my Camp Rest pad.

[RagingHampster]

Nunatak sells something similar to what I will be making. In fact, I think I will be making pretty much a duplicate of this sleep system, but with a 25" pad width accommodation, and one side will affix to the bottom with a long strip of velcro. I'm debating whether or not to sew a baffled footbox, or use nunatak's drawcord approach. I'm now leaning towards the drawcord approach. This would make hot weather sleeping much nicer.

Check it out here...

http://www.nunatakusa.com/Sleeping_Bag_Catabatic.htm

[Ann]

Raging Hampster...

Good luck with your Nunakak knock-off.

Whenever I've tried to work with down there are feathers EVERYWHERE!!!!! I hope you have a VERY small area to work in.

Please, if you can impart ANY pearls of wisdom or learn tricks on working with the stuff PLEASE...I'd appreciate it. I HATE trying to reinvent the wheel...as I said, GOOD LUCK!!!!

In the interim, I've given WM my business.

[MedicineMan]

suggestion for working with down....
1. get in a tent
2. put a fan in the tent
3. direct the fan toward a vent in the tent wall, closer the better
this creates a good air flow for the loose quills to follow.
If you are really messy the vent will eventually clog with quills the fan has blown onto it
4. Wear a surgical mask when working with down, many people sensitize to it when working with it in fashioning sleeping bags and turn allergic
2cents worth

[Dirtyoldman]

use a vacuum with a clean bag to reclaim the down before you exit tent and even while your working to improve visibility :}

[Sparky!]

Hmmm... Raging Hampster.... This may be something I might want to do. How much did the down cost you and how much did the fabric run you? I never worked with down before but this seems to be what I might want to use on my thru in 2005...

Sparky!

[RagingHampster]

Hmmm... I've had the nylon fabric for awhile now, but the down I ordered from feathered friends still hasnt arrived, even after phoning them. I'm going to call them again tomorrow. I'm really anxious to get this project underway, and irritated by the delays.

800fill Down is around $8/oz. 1.1oz Ripstop Nylon is around $5 a yard (usually 62-65" wide). These materials are obviously premium stuff, and fetch a high price (but you save manufacturing fees, and get a custom product you made by hand and know is reliable). I paid about $9/oz for my down from feathered friends, due to thru-hiker.com being closed for a couple weeks (thinking I could get a head start). Last friday I ordered more materials from thru-hiker and have already received them. The down is still not here from FF. I'm pissed.

***EDIT***
Hmmm... No one is answering at FF and their website is down. I want blood!

***EDIT***
Just talked to FF. Very dissapointed. They just shipped the down out, and I won't get it until next week. I will never order from them again! They managed to suck money out of my checking account in 15 minutes, but it's taken them a month to ship my down, and not to mention they lied to me. Horrible, absolutely horrible... I also had to call back twice for the tracking #. They gave me only half the # the first time. Pathetic.

[RagingHampster]

Well finally got my down in the mail. It has bits and pieces of nylon mixed with it. I am absolutely pissed beyond all belief. I almost want to scream. Once again Feathered Friends has let me down. Now I have to spend 2 or three hours when I open the bag picking nylon pieces out of the down.

It really makes me wonder about their retail products and the "Hand Made" care that goes into them.

I'll be making the blanket this weekend (hopefully).

I've decided on a rectangular blanket which will have velcro at the base to make a footpocket. Later if I decide to make a Nunatuk style sleep system, I will add a nylon pocket to the blanket to hold my pad. Or maybe some simple velcro.

[gravityman]

I got a bag from them for my wife based on the wide aclaim they get on AT boards. I was very dissappointed in it. The loft just isn't there and it leaks like crazy. The temperature rating is WAY off (They claim 0, I wouldn't take it below 30!). I would definately never recommend them to anyone. Especially with the price!Western Mountaineering is the way to go!

Gravity Man

[MedicineMan]

mega yeahs on WM but I am awaiting an Arc Alpinist and hope it doesnt have the same characteristics as the one you got from FF.....

[Dirtyoldman]

I have an alpinist.... nunatak did an excellant job on mine, well worth the wait.

[MedicineMan]

Dirtyoldman,,,,which exterior/interior fabrics did you choose? I am in basic Microlite inside and out...black color too which is maybe a plus.

[Dirtyoldman]

pertex? not sure that was a few months ago, got black/red.
I dont really buy that black dries faster but it does agree with me

I did get a few changes done, extra baffle height, extra foot box extra fill...I havent tested its rating yet but im hoping for maybe 0

[Don]

I have a North Face Chrysalis semi-rectangular bag...it has no hood and unzips completely. I sometimes use it as a blanket/quilt. I keep the bottom partially zipped to use as a footbox. I am curious as to how this configuration differs from the quilts you are discussing...

[RagingHampster]

Quite similar actually. I own the Blue Kazoo.

But when making a quilt, you can use lighterweight, premium materials, and also custom fit the quilt to your size. For instance making it a bit narrower and using 800fill down over TNF's 600fill down which is rumored to be more like 500-550fill. You can also use 1.1oz ripstop nylon instead of the heavier pertex fabric.

I've decided on making an actual quilt. Just a rectangular blanket 60" Wide, 90" Long, and 2.5" Thick. I'll also be overstuffing it slightly by a couple ounces. I was aiming for 1.5-2lbs, but I think it will be about 2lbs even.

With a blanket, you can tuck it around you, fold-back areas that are hot, dry it easily, and wrap it around you like a shawl if you get really cold for some reason, or just mingling around camp. I'm going to sew on a few short nylon strips. This will allow you to make a shawl while walking, and a semi-footbox when real cold out. I'm a hot sleeper, and usually sleep uncovered in warm clothing deep into the 40's. I also plan to have a down vest & fleece balaclava, which will supplement the blanket in real cold situations.

[AYCE]

suggestion for working with down....
1. get in a tent
2. put a fan in the tent
3. direct the fan toward a vent in the tent wall, closer the better
this creates a good air flow for the loose quills to follow.
If you are really messy the vent will eventually clog with quills the fan has blown onto it
4. Wear a surgical mask when working with down, many people sensitize to it when working with it in fashioning sleeping bags and turn allergic
2cents worth

The surgical mask is a good suggestion. A better one is to go to the home depot and buy a more substantial dust mask that seals properly to your face.

I'm surprised you use a fan. I find that working in a place with as few drafts as possible works the best.

If you buy high quality down, you shouldn't be finding many quills at all. 800+ down tends to be 92% or higher cluster, with most of the 8% being non-cluster down with a few quills. A fan would tend to catch your down during stuffing/weighing.

So now you've got some kind of mask and your down:
Use baby powder or climber's chalk to dust down your hands. This keeps down from sticking to any dampness on your skin.

I supply my fill in 3 oz bags which are very easy to place right on your scale (you *are* weighing out your expensive down, right?). Carefully withdraw bunches of down, adding each bunch to your bag/quilt/whatever until the scale reading drops by the amount you were supposed to add to that compartment. Pin the compartment shut and move on to the next compartment.

Moving slowly, carefully, and calmly makes working with down no problem at all. A good place to do this would be in your bathroom.

If you buy your down somewhere besides thru-hiker.com, it will most likely come in a very large bag made out of the same stuff as those blue tarps. I'd recommend repackaging it before you start. It's very hard to otherwise weigh out down. Some suggest that you spray it down with water, but if you do it's absolutely impossible to correctly gauge how much down is going into each compartment. The spray method works only if you don't care (think a non-backpacking garment using cheap down).

People are always tempted by pillows, "floor down", etc, because high quality down is, well, down-right expensive (ok, bad joke). But even if you don't buy it from me, get the best possible down you can afford, because down projects take a lot of time and the quality of the down makes a *huge* difference in the final result. Definitly go with at_least 700 fill.

Down projects are a lot of fun, and I enjoy helping people learn the tricks of the trade. If you ever get stuck, or need to bounce an idea off someone, give me a call- i'd be glad to help.

Paul AYCE Nanian
thru-hiker.com

[peter_pan]

my hiking partner (smee) and i made down quilts last year. mine got 800 miles this year including 5 or 6 nites in the 20s and a night 0f 3"snow in deep gap ga. the quilt is 48 x78x 2.5. it has a drawstring across the bottom and 18" of velcro on the sides of the bottom end. it, therefore, can be used flat or with a foot sack. It is ABSOLUTELY LUXORIOUS IN A HAMMOCK, the sides tuck in great and stay tucked. just get in, slip over the feet. pull up and tuck. no sleeping bag worm dance to get in the hammock.
we too saw the recomendation to use the tent to stuff down, however, we opted for the bath room. first, find a bathroom w/ some room. second seal the vanity doors, drawers, air vents, medicine cabinet etc. masking tape worked fine. remove all the "nicities" tissue boxes, nicnacks, soaps etc. we put our scale on the vanity, put a pile of spring clothes pin on the vanity, positioned a small dust pan and brush,brougt in our bag of down and two boxes of ziplocs, and set the sewing machine up immediately outside the door. we also had a shop vac outside the door. our first step was to wgt out the down into 2 gal ziplocs (smaller projects may use smaller zips), we temp stored the full baggies in the tub. our drill,after several false starts, was one guy hold the bag of down, second guy reach in get a handfull of down place in the zip, wgt the zip, repeat as necessary. we swept up the spillage after each baggie. total waste for two quilts was less than a single handful of down. we then filled the quilt. our drill again, one guy hold the quilt, second guy transfer from the ziploc, again sweep up each tube's spill and add to the tube, fold over 2x and clothes pin, repeat until all tubes are full. open door bring in vacuum, vacuum any apparent down. open the door and go into the hall and sew the seam. Note, by now you are ready for some freash and cooler air. we took a break and then did the second quilt. we took our time. from start set-up to finish clean-up it took 5 hours and we got two great quilts.( our sewing time for the quilt was about 2.5 hr per quilt.) this project was so easy and so pleasing that we are presently making two under quilts for our hennessey's. almost forgot quilt wgt is 22 oz. at any rate, we felt the was is more pleasant work environment to the "tent in the Garage"..... we are too old for crawling aroud unnecessarily.... hence the hammocks.

[Rain Man]

... Definitly go with at_least 700 fill. ...

Paul,

Can you explain what 700 fill down means? I hear about 700, 650, 800, but have no idea what it means ... or even if a higher number or a lower number is better.

Just wondering.

Rain Man

[AYCE]

Paul,

Can you explain what 700 fill down means? I hear about 700, 650, 800, but have no idea what it means ... or even if a higher number or a lower number is better.

Just wondering.

Rain Man

In the US, fill power means the volume in cubic inches occupied by one ounce of down. For example, 700 fill means that one ounce of down occupies 700 cubic inches.

800+ fill power down is typically 90% down cluster or higher.

Using higher fill power down means that you can achieve the same amount of loft with less weight of fill.

Low fill power down contains a lot of quills. These sharp quills tend to poke holes in lightweight shells, and force makers to use heavier downproof materials. So it's another reason to go with at least 700 fill, since you can use both less fill and a lighter weight shell.

AYCE

[Rain Man]

In the US, fill power means the volume in cubic inches occupied by one ounce of down. For example, 700 fill means that one ounce of down occupies 700 cubic inches. ...So it's another reason to go with at least 700 fill, since you can use both less fill and a lighter weight shell.

Paul, many thanks!!! Now it makes sense.