Any January Starters?

[Oslohiker]

My dirty muddy wet boots are opened up properly as described and must fend for themselves w/o any warmth from me. See ya in the morning guys.

Well, I am talking about winter conditions sub-freeing. You would not get any mud on them then, since the mud would be solid. If it is over freezing the boots would not be very cold, and the boots would not be a problem.

[Oslohiker]

Snowshoes?? Sure, they may help in 2-3 feet of snow on the ridges. Or maybe not. Wearing a 75 lb pack with snowshoes in deep snow on these mountain trails could be just as bad as not having snowshoes. Postholing is gonna happen one way or the other. I have never seen any backpacker in the Southeast mountains wearing snowshoes. We just don't carry them.

I am still tempted to try. With antarctic expedition skies with steel edges you can go pretty much everywhere... but not on ice, where the microspikes may do the job. I would claim that if you can move on snowshoes you can do it with skies, especially with climbing skins. I get the rocky ting, but if you feel the rocks you can probably walk in the biits without hassle. Collapsed brush could of course be a deal breaker.

[Oslohiker]

Well, I am talking about winter conditions sub-freeing. You would not get any mud on them then, since the mud would be solid. If it is over freezing the boots would not be very cold, and the boots would not be a problem.

I also have to add that (in Norway) there are two schools.... drying or not drying the boots in the sleeping bag. I dry them in the sleeping bag, others do not. Yes, the sleeping bag will get wetter as the days go by, but it will happen anyway because of body perspiration. The difference with shoes inside is small (you wipe of the outside of the boots). This is still an emergency behaviour, because I use the stove inside the tent (don't do it if you don't know what you are doing). There I cock the meals, and dry what I can during that time (and maybe still put the boots and and socks inside the sleeping bag). In winter time I also cary a candle light I can hang in the inner tent. That keeps the spirit up during the dark winter (here we have about 5-6 hours daylight at this time) and it gives away a surpassing amount of warmth.


Winter time is not a season to save weight. Extra food, A LOT of fuel, a full extra shift of clothes (except the outer shell). You will sweat in winter anyway (try to limit it as much as possible), the trick is to put on dry clothes when you reach camp (and after you have put up the tent)

[kayak karl]

i never leave water in a container over night that isn't in my hammock with me or buried in snow. a frozen container is worthless till you can thaw it and that may take most of the day.

[Connie]

Our tents are very much air-tight. I had a candle lantern make little oxygen available, or, maybe it was carbon monoxide. I haven't used one since. I am experienced. I don't have the open fire of a cook stove inside a tent, or, a tent vestibule. The tent-stoves with a stovepipe and asbestos stove jack may be made safe.

http://www.bplite.com/viewtopic.php?...s+tents#p31933
and
http://www.bplite.com/viewtopic.php?...ents&start=400

Our mountain trails have practically no straight sections for cross-country skis. Different mountains.

[Tipi Walter]

Our mountain trails have practically no straight sections for cross-country skis. Different mountains.

I'd love to see some guy with skis and a 75 lb pack do the Upper Slickrock Creek trail (aka Nutbuster) in the snow, or the North Fork or South Fork Citico trails or Brush Mt or Jenkins Meadow or Naked Ground trail or Hangover Lead South. Or Slickrock Creek with its 12 crossings.

Here's an example: Put a foot of snow on a 10 story flight of stairs. Now go up with your pack and skis. And then come down the same way.

[freightliner]

I would use Hot hands to make dinner and set up camp. It kept my hands from going totally numb. Just before I would crawl in my bag for the night I would toss them in my boots and they would be dry in the morning. The only thing I put in my sleeping bag is the socks I hike with because well who wants to put on freezing cold socks in the morning

There sure is a big difference between Southern Appalachian Mountains and Northern Appalachian Mountains. Nobody would go out hiking in deep snow without a good pair snowshoes or cross-country skis. We even have the catamount Trail that follows the AT and LT that they thru cross country ski every year. It's very steep but not straight up and down. Their backpacks are more like in 30 to 40 pound range so it's a little easier to ski. You also don't have to spend every night out in the woods because there are B&Bs that are easy to get to right on the trail if you wanted that sort of thing.

One thing I also learned was only leave enough water in my water bottle in case I need a drink at night. If there was anything frozen on the bottom in the morning I just left it there and topped off the rest with water I would need for my hike. Winter hiking is all about the routine you got to get things done quickly.

[Oslohiker]

Our tents are very much air-tight. I had a candle lantern make little oxygen available, or, maybe it was carbon monoxide. I haven't used one since. I am experienced. I don't have the open fire of a cook stove inside a tent, or, a tent vestibule. The tent-stoves with a stovepipe and asbestos stove jack may be made safe.

http://www.bplite.com/viewtopic.php?...s+tents#p31933
and
http://www.bplite.com/viewtopic.php?...ents&start=400

Our mountain trails have practically no straight sections for cross-country skis. Different mountains.

Yes, you need a tent with good ventilation when you use a stove. Like Tipi Walter I also use Hilleberg tents, which all have excellent ventilation. I guess not every tent are suited for stove use. Again, you have to know what you are doing. It is possible to die from stove use in tents. But as far as I know it has not happened for decades in country, where this practice is normal. A candle light would on the other hand hardly steal enough oxygen for suffocation. Still with ventilation the tent will warm up by a stove.

When skiing you are not depended on straight sections, because you can change direction with every move. This is not the Olympics.

[Oslohiker]

I'd love to see some guy with skis and a 75 lb pack do the Upper Slickrock Creek trail (aka Nutbuster) in the snow, or the North Fork or South Fork Citico trails or Brush Mt or Jenkins Meadow or Naked Ground trail or Hangover Lead South. Or Slickrock Creek with its 12 crossings.

Here's an example: Put a foot of snow on a 10 story flight of stairs. Now go up with your pack and skis. And then come down the same way.

Free skiing in the wilderness involves also strapping the skies on the backpack in challenging sections. But on the other hand most people don't know how versatile skies are. When serving in the Norwegian military ground troops use skies in the winter to move around (that is why we have the biathlon event in the Olympics). Although those skies are horrible, it is a reason that we use skies, it is because they are very usable. Norway are almost an all mountain country, with rugged sections many places. With top equipment skiing equipment you can buy today and climbing skins you can climb up pretty step sections. If you can walk up the section without having to use your hands you can probably ski it.

So there will be sections that are un-skiable, but they will probably be few and far between. But as I understand most of the time there will be almost no snow in the south AT, even in January. What I am speculating in is that strapping on some skies on the backpack would still be favorable, to use when heavy snowfall occur. But on the other hand I have never been on the AT, except checking it out a few hundred meters in the summertime without any equipment with me. Your information (and others) are therefor very valuable. I am just putting forward a hypothesis.... but I still think it is good. I think the real show stopper here would be sections that are to dangerous when icy, but I don't know.

[JohnnySnook]

Oslohiker - I'm sure your prepared to survive in winter. My family is from Sweden and Estonia. Both very cold countries. Daylight during the winter half of what the US experiences. Listen to what those here say but also don't discount what you know. If it doesn't work than you can jump off trail but you'll face nothing worse than conditions in Norway.
The people of Norway and sweden are true outdoors people. I was going to say men but that wouldn't be right.
When my cousins visited last year from Sweden I was amazed at the outdoor adventures they take. Weeks in the woods during winter with an 6 and 8 year old children. Skying, hiking, kayaking, mountain biking. They do it all. The culture in much different on the other side. The outdoors is ingrained in them. Its part of the culture. On average they are much fitter and intune with nature than 99% of the people in the US.
Oslo - do what you do. I have no doubt you'll secede.

Heres some links about my grandfather John Wictorin that I was was never able to meet as he died before my time but my grandmother and mother have always had me the mountains skiing, hiking, or rafting rivers. After my youth I moved on to surfing the world. These days I have a calling to be in the mountains. I plan to hike the AT in 2015.

God, I really wish he hadn't of passed away without us spending time together and sharing our love of the outdoors!

He was an avid hiker, nordic skier, and an olympic ski jumper from sweden who relocated NY/NY and has had may nordic events held in his name at Bear Mountain! I often look at his awards, some gold plated, and hear events held in his name, and wish I could of meet him.

He was inducted into the US ski Hall of Fame in 1970.

http://www.skihall.com/index.php?_a=...c_id=11&id=343

http://news.google.com/newspapers?ni...g=4133,2344277

Edited - The trails here may not be as friendly to skiers. Just be prepared to ditch the skies and only hike. I have never hiked the trail but Tipi loves heading out in a snow storm and never leaving the same campsite for days. Something I'm sure isn't in your blood.

[Oslohiker]

Oslohiker - I'm sure your prepared to survive in winter. My family is from Sweden and Estonia. Both very cold countries. Daylight during the winter half of what the US experiences. Listen to what those here say but also don't discount what you know. If it doesn't work than you can jump off trail but you'll face nothing worse than conditions in Norway.
The people of Norway and sweden are true outdoors people. I was going to say men but that wouldn't be right.
When my cousins visited last year from Sweden I was amazed at the outdoor adventures they take. Weeks in the woods during winter with an 6 and 8 year old children. Skying, hiking, kayaking, mountain biking. They do it all. The culture in much different on the other side. The outdoors is ingrained in them. Its part of the culture. On average they are much fitter and intune with nature than 99% of the people in the US.
Oslo - do what you do. I have no doubt you'll secede.

Heres some links about my grandfather John Wictorin that I was was never able to meet as he died before my time but my grandmother and mother have always had me the mountains skiing, hiking, or rafting rivers. After my youth I moved on to surfing the world. These days I have a calling to be in the mountains. I plan to hike the AT in 2015.

God, I really wish he hadn't of passed away without us spending time together and sharing our love of the outdoors!

He was an avid hiker, nordic skier, and an olympic ski jumper from sweden who relocated NY/NY and has had may nordic events held in his name at Bear Mountain! I often look at his awards, some gold plated, and hear events held in his name, and wish I could of meet him.

He was inducted into the US ski Hall of Fame in 1970.

http://www.skihall.com/index.php?_a=...c_id=11&id=343

http://news.google.com/newspapers?ni...g=4133,2344277

Edited - The trails here may not be as friendly to skiers. Just be prepared to ditch the skies and only hike. I have never hiked the trail but Tipi loves heading out in a snow storm and never leaving the same campsite for days. Something I'm sure isn't in your blood.

You are spot on when it comes to Norwegians. When I grew up everybody cross-country skied. And go skiing in the weekend are a normal activity. I would say most Norwegians are in the wilderness several times a year. And about half the population go up in the high mountains to ski every Easter. And in the high mountains the weather can really turn bad. I have several times spent days at end in the in the tent waiting for the storm to end. Spending time in the tent when the food and fuel are about to end is not a good feeling, knowing the weather outside would kill if you tried to break camo. But if you are an avid skier, have the right equipment nothing bad happens. Most deaths happens because of avalanches...

Again, I am looking for a combination of walking and skiing. I would still pack extra food and fuel. I don't mind staying put for several days. Tipi loves would probably meet his match in me....

[Tipi Walter]

Oslohiker---We always comment on what we know from the geography we are most familiar with. You are right to say the Southeast mountains in January are often snow-less, or then there's 2 feet of snow on the high ground. But around here, the higher you go the better chance there is to see snow and to posthole in snow. Go down 3,000 feet and there's nothing.

Plus, carrying skis strapped to a pack would be a REAL challenge in the Southeast forests I backpack because the trails are green tunnels and overhead clearance is usually too low for anything sticking above the pack. It would be like hiking under rhododendron with an umbrella.

[Connie]

Everything I have seen of Norway, from famous Blog to pictures online, I would think Norway is ideal for cross-country ski. I would venture to say cross-country skiing has been a form of transportation, in Norwegian history, if not the present-day.

The United States had high mountain ski-bowls where there is cross-country skiing. Most people do their cross-country skiing on snowed over roads, closed to traffic. These are not flat roads.

I think the "best" are in National Parks, in wintertime. I also like old logging roads for cross-country skis.

We do know climbing skins, ski wax, as well as, waxless skis, here.

If you look at the YouTube AT trail videos available, at YouTube, you will see a trail unsuited, for the most part, for even the most skilled cross-country skier.

[Marta]

I think lack of snow would be the main obstacle to skiing the AT. Only the northernmost sections have much of a snowpack.

[Abatis1948]

I understand through hiking the AT is a different kind of experience, but the whole concept of "getting to the next town" is so foreign to me.
My whole reason for being in the woods is to get OUT OF TOWN.

Back in 2009 and 2010 my best friend spent a year camping continuously in the Cherokee National Forest. Though he has returned to civilization (if you can call the New York City area civilized!) he still reminisces about being in the woods.
I'm thinking about dropping out of the rat race and retiring to the woods. For as long as I can function, manage my gear, cook, gather firewood, and survive,.....I see little point in getting to the next town.

You must be real good at living off the land. Would like to follow your journal if you do the AT.

[Tipi Walter]

You must be real good at living off the land. Would like to follow your journal if you do the AT.

I believe his point is that there are different ways to hike the AT and some of us hate the idea of hiking roads or hitching into towns or going to stores for near-constant resupplies. We put a dollar in our pack on Day 1 and come out on Day 21 with the same dollar.

I did 19 days on the AT in June 2011 w/o resupply and in April 2012 did 20 days on the AT w/o resupply. In May 2014 I did 21 days on the BMT/AT combo w/o resupply.

I concede of course that Thruhikers have to resupply because they are out for 5 or 6 months. Or they could carry 30 days of food and resupply 5 or 6 times for the whole trip. Different options available. The Fast & Light mindset, the Forced March mindset, the Gotta Make The Miles mindset is predominant, not the unbroken nature experience mindset.

[oldwetherman]

Tipi. Did you ever wonder if you were a polar bear in a previous life? ...Just teasing. I truly admire what you do.

[Tipi Walter]

Tipi. Did you ever wonder if you were a polar bear in a previous life? ...Just teasing. I truly admire what you do.

Thanks for the encouragement but no, I'm just an old bitter geezer trying to stay on speaking terms with Miss Nature.

[campingfever]

http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=479106 Not sure if these folks are still out. No posts for a few days.

[Sly]

Nothing worse than having to put on frozen boots in morning after you break them free from the ground. The first mile is like walking on a 2x4 until the thaw out.

It's not as obvious as it should be but hold them over your lit stove for a few minutes and they'll thaw out nicely.