Pack wt. vs. skin out

[squeezebox]

I wish to contend that "skin out" is much more accurate than "pack wt". An extreme example would be "My shelter is strapped to the outside of my pack, since it's not inside my pack it doesn't count as pack wt." a gas canister counts as pack wt. but alcohol doesn't. Cameling up doesn't count as water wt. but carrying in a bottle the same ,or less amount of water, does count. if it's in your belly or in a bottle it's still wt. There's a lot of difference between 3 lb. boots and 1 lb trail runners. One person can say they are carrying an item, another say they are wearing it. Not to mention seasonal stuff, like winter base layer vs. summer base layer. Too easy to fudge stuff on trail wt.
So tell us all of what you're really carrying not just part of it.

[jjozgrunt]

Really this is just another of those inane questions asked by people with nothing better to do. Lets also get a total weight, ie you with all your gear on?

To make it fair you must have all just eaten a meal consisting of a roast lamb, 3 slices, with gravy and 6 ozs of vegies. Drunk one glass of water only (beer or wine acceptable). Oh don't forget to go to the loo before weighting.

Next we will have to classify by sex and BMI, have a sliding scale for comparison based of age, and mustn't forget to include a graph somewhere for the amount of money spent on gear, with a side bar for bought new or second hand.

Obvious missing fact, with or without a beard or have you recently shaved your legs or other body parts? That will add a few grams, the bloody cheaters!

No one can blow their nose or god forbid pick it before weight in but you will be allowed to trim nails and clear out belly button fluff and ear wax. And guys no unloading any other weight wink wink nudge nudge.

If you normally wear glasses or any other type of aid they must be worn.

Did I forget anything?

[kayak karl]

your first statement that the tent don't count confuses me. i don't get that, but for me i really don't care what YOUR carrying. i use weights to purchase new gear and try to replace stuff with lighter stuff. i don't know my total gear weight. as far as fudging goes, i didn't know it was a competition, but i will probably be proven wrong as the posters try to out do each other

[12trysomething]

your first statement that the tent don't count confuses me. i don't get that, but for me i really don't care what YOUR carrying. i use weights to purchase new gear and try to replace stuff with lighter stuff. i don't know my total gear weight. as far as fudging goes, i didn't know it was a competition, but i will probably be proven wrong as the posters try to out do each other

My post is less words than your post.

[kayak karl]

My post is less words than your post.

and makes less sense

[10-K]

The way I look at it is that I take what I need and pack weight takes care of itself. I haven't weighed my full pack in quite a while.

(actually, that's not true - I weighed it at Mountain Crossings last week out of curiousness)

[Coffee]

I'm not sure why there is so much controversy regarding base weight, total pack weight, and skin out weight. These are simple concepts. Base weight is useful in terms of being able to understand base load regardless of how long the trip will take while total pack weight simply accounts for consumables and will vary with trip length. Skin out weight is self explanatory with the difference between pack weight and skin out weight simply representing clothing and items carried by hand like trekking poles.

Probably the most interesting point the OP makes is related to water weight. I tend to agree that excessively cameling up at a water source simply transfers pack weight into body weight and I don't like excess water sloshing around in my stomach.

[Ktaadn]

I like a skin out weight without food and water for comparison purposes. It is a more honest weight.

[MuddyWaters]

It all weighs, it all matters.
They are ways of measuring different PARTS of what you carry

Skinout includes all carried and worn items., can be dramatically more for some folks.. My carried and worn items usually amount to 4 lbs or so in warm weather.

Poles 10.5 oz
Watch 2 oz
Camera 4 oz
TP 1 oz
Map profile 0.5 oz
Shirt 3.2 oz
Underwear 2.8 oz
Cargo pocket shorts 9 oz
Socks 2 oz
Shoes 22 oz
Gaiters 1.5 oz
Hat 2.8 oz
ID,credit card 1oz

I could cut my weight by wearing 3 oz running shorts instead of my compression short and cargo shorts combo, but I like camera, map, and tp in pockets where always accessible. I also like ID on my person, not in pack, in case something should happen to me.



If your tent is on outside of pack, its in your base pack wt.
If you carry your tent in you hand, put it in your pocket, or wear it on your head it would be part of skin out.

[Slo-go'en]

If it gets carried on my back, it counts. Clothes I wear are added to my body weight, since they are effectively part of my body. The exception is outerwear and/or extra layers, which are usually carried in the pack.

[freightliner]

Out on the trail people ask how much dose your pack weigh. I have never had anybody ask me what's your shirt weigh. Pack weight is what hurts the most. Maybe what you need to ask is total weight if anybody really cares. Well all put everything on and step on a scale. I will win the heaviest hiker award but it won't stop me from hiking.

[Miner]

Baseweights are good for making comparisons as long as everyone is being honest and isn't trying to artificially make it seem like it weighs less. In which case, skin out weight reveals that dishonesty. But, as I don't care if someone is lying about their weight as they'll still have to carry it. If someone is resulting to playing such dishonest games based on some technicality, it isn't going to help them reduce pack weight. And I don't have time to listen to such foolishness.

So I usually just stick with baseweight when talking gear. But I actually do know the weight of everything that what I'm wearing and carrying that isn't included in my baseweight as I weigh everything and consider the weight of my clothes when I buy them. Because the less weight you carry in your pack, on your body, and aren't carrying on your belly all makes for a more pleasant day hiking.

[10-K]

The goal is to have what I need and no more - not to have a pack that weighs some particular number. Who cares what the number is?

This is where I'm at with the subject.

[BuckeyeBill]

Baseweights are good for making comparisons as long as everyone is being honest and isn't trying to artificially make it seem like it weighs less. In which case, skin out weight reveals that dishonesty. But, as I don't care if someone is lying about their weight as they'll still have to carry it. If someone is resulting to playing such dishonest games based on some technicality, it isn't going to help them reduce pack weight. And I don't have time to listen to such foolishness.

So I usually just stick with baseweight when talking gear. But I actually do know the weight of everything that what I'm wearing and carrying that isn't included in my baseweight as I weigh everything and consider the weight of my clothes when I buy them. Because the less weight you carry in your pack, on your body, and aren't carrying on your belly all makes for a more pleasant day hiking.

Comparisons to what? Your weight.I don't care about your weight because I don't have to carry it. I have figured out what I want to take with me and then tried to find the lightest possible one on the market and buy it. Light packs cost money so how like do you want to go?

[OCDave]

I hike. I take along some stuff. Sometimes, I take too much stuff. Sometimes, I take heavier stuff. Sometimes, I carry stuff. Sometimes, I wear stuff. Perhaps, I could hike bit farther or a bit faster. The only thing I have typed that matters--- "I hike"

[Lone Wolf]

it's just walkin' with some weight. some folks make the easiest things so technical

[BuckeyeBill]

like should have been light

[Just Bill]

Guess I'll be the douchebag.

I agree 100% with using FSO. It prevents spreadsheet magic or fooling yourself. It also forces you to examine things you might not otherwise pay attention to, such as shoe and clothing weight. As well as all the odds and ends stuffed in your pockets.

Examining weights, crunching numbers, and even occasionally using a spreadsheet is something we all** HAVE done.
**(Lone Wolf has never weighed his pack as lone wolves are not pack animals and have no pack to weigh)

I would contend that for quite some time it's a good habit to stick with.

At some point, you go the Kayak Karl route- you check weight for upgrades or gear swaps.

At some point you go the Garlic and Mags route- after decades of experience you pretty well know what you need and what it weighs. You've done enough trips and enough miles in enough different places that it's not that big a deal.

It's not that it's NOT that big a deal, it's that your experience has reached the point that it's second nature and doesn't involve much thought.

Like any other tool- Accurately measuring and examining the weight you carry is part of the deal.
Eventually you get so good at it you don't need to think about it. But you only get that good at it by thinking about it in the first place.

It's not hard to keep a spreadsheet running, and I use it still as I develop different systems approaches and further examine how my gear can replace/combine/simplify each other. But I make my own gear and always tinker, most folks don't and reach a point where only things that wear get replaced.

What some of the folks are trying to tell you- and is quite true-
At some point you also learn that an extra pound of gear is no big deal.

[Dogwood]

LOL. You're dialed in tonite JB. Well said Jedi Bill - the Hiking Master.


You summed up my exact sentiments on the subject and whre I'm at in my UL philosophy.

[Lone Wolf]

Guess I'll be the douchebag.



using a spreadsheet is something we all** HAVE done.
**(Lone Wolf has never weighed his pack as lone wolves are not pack animals and have no pack to weigh)

i've never used a spreadsheet. don't know what it is. unless you mean the thing that goes under a tent