Trailrunning AT New Hampshire - miles per day?

[Just Bill]

This is about the worst of it- assuming good weather.
It looks like these gents had a decent time of it in regards to "traffic jams", as you can imagine, even a few people in the notch can make it pretty slow going and result in queing up at each of the squeezes. Not much room for rest stops either so resting hikers can form their own set of obstacles for a speedy hiker. It's a mile that often takes an hour or more for most hikers. If at all possible this is a section to avoid on a weekend if you can do it.

That said- if you trust yourself and your shoes- you can go up and over most of the notch and do it in about 20 minutes. If you have a decent pair of approach style shoes with some good rubber the footing is fairly good. Been a dozen years for me, but if I recall correctly southbound is more friendly to the up and over approach.

Overall- if you approach it as a speed hike, rather than a trail run, you'll probably be mentally happier. Nothing kills your mood faster than not moving as quickly as planned so don't expect to run and you'll be happier for it.

In peak condition and on their way to setting records on the trail, Jenn and Matt both had their lowest mile days of their trips, Matt in the mid to upper 20's, Jenn in the low to mid 30's.

[Slo-go'en]

It's a mile that often takes an hour or more for most hikers. If at all possible this is a section to avoid on a weekend if you can do it.

An hour? Try more like 2 or 3. I went through there once with an older woman who was thru hiking and it took us 5 hours. But she was only about 5' 2", so that made it pretty hard for her.

[colorado_rob]

the OP here is totally clueless. You are not going to "run" most of the AT in New Hampshire. Way to steep, rocky, rooty whatever. Maybe you could job 10 % but not much more. These are the White Mountains we are talking about.

I beg to differ... though my trail running days are finally over, I submit that you really haven't seen what good trail runners can do. It is amazing. We hiked the whites this last late-summer and saw plenty of trail runners running in sections that were amazingly difficult. I'd say maybe 60% of the whites would be completely runnable by a good, experienced trail runner. As I said already my percentage would have been more like a third. Upon further reflection, maybe close to a half. One (myself) tends to forget that it takes so much more time in the really difficult sections, that there are huge miles in the whites that are fairly smooth cruising.

[jmeyerdo]

Thank you Just Bill for posting this video - this give me some impressions how tough this trail can be. But as it is called "Hardest Mile" I would assume that there are easier miles also. Additional - as far as I understand - this stage is not covered by my route (Maine-NH-state line southbound), is it? Would be sad anyhow - if I refer to the great views (starting at 11:45 in video). AMAZING!
Your suggestions to see it more as speed hike to avoid frustration is very good!

Thank you colorado_rob for "mediation" between different views to this project of mine. I appreciate all critical feedback and am very interested to get a "realistic picture of the mountains there" but I went on runs through the complete Alps and within different national parks of the US already. So comparisons with hiking speed of an "old woman" are not really appropriate.

All the best, keep on hiking/"trailing"/enjoying nature... Jens

[Slo-go'en]

NH trails are really rough, they will be like nothing you have ever seen before.

[Just Bill]

Thank you Just Bill for posting this video - this give me some impressions how tough this trail can be. But as it is called "Hardest Mile" I would assume that there are easier miles also. Additional - as far as I understand - this stage is not covered by my route (Maine-NH-state line southbound), is it? Would be sad anyhow - if I refer to the great views (starting at 11:45 in video). AMAZING!
Your suggestions to see it more as speed hike to avoid frustration is very good!

Thank you colorado_rob for "mediation" between different views to this project of mine. I appreciate all critical feedback and am very interested to get a "realistic picture of the mountains there" but I went on runs through the complete Alps and within different national parks of the US already. So comparisons with hiking speed of an "old woman" are not really appropriate.

All the best, keep on hiking/"trailing"/enjoying nature... Jens

You may consider modifying your route a hair, but I don't have my book handy to tell you exactly. The Mahoosic Notch and Arm are part of that stretch in many hikers minds, but I don't recall exactly how far outside your Gorham to Glencliff trip it would be.

Some of us call it the most fun mile, btw.
Slo- didn't want to scare the poor guy with the horror stories- but yar, you get caught behind grandma and it's slo-goen indeed.

But yes- that's the worst of it. If the weather is not in your favor the "whites" is an understatement. Be prepared to hole up if needed. Carry a 50-75' (25m) hunk of rope if you get caught out- you can loop an end under a cairn and use it to find your way to the next.

All that said-
There are some heart breaking beautiful stretches that will lighten your step and let you fly. Being above treeline on a nice day can be wonderful enough to make any hiker burst into a run. For a runner- there's a few stretches that will remind you why you started running in the first place.
And if you happen to catch Pinkham Notch to Crawford Notch on a good day, it just might be the best day of your life.

[dudeijuststarted]

I'd love to see somebody "run" through Mahoosuc Notch.

Me too! No sarcasm to the OP, I hope something pans out for you, but I'd pay $5 for a GoPro of an all-out "sprint" through Mahoosuc Notch!

I do know a yo-yo-er who was putting up 35 mile days through the Whites with an ultra ultra light pack. This was his fourth thru though...

[Linesman]

You may consider modifying your route a hair, but I don't have my book handy to tell you exactly. The Mahoosic Notch and Arm are part of that stretch in many hikers minds, but I don't recall exactly how far outside your Gorham to Glencliff trip it would be.

Grafton notch to Gorham is a longish day. There's a good full service hostel in gorham, right on the rail.

They I would envision getting over the carter-moriah range to Pinkham notch

Then over the presidential range to Crawford notch

Then to Franconia Notch

Then on to Glencliff

5 splendid days, especially 1, 3, and 4. The shuttle wouldn't be cheap though. It's almost Matt Kirk pace but with more support and less worries about exhausting yourself. PM me if you want advice on how to use the huts.

[Slo-go'en]

If he wants to start at the actual Maine/NH line the best way to do that would be to hike up the to Carlo Col shelter via the side trail from Success pond road. That avoids the worst of the Mahoosucs, like Old Spec, the arm, the notch and Goose eye mountain.

To say Grafton Notch to Gorham is a longish day is an understatement! That's 31 miles of shear hell. Three days/two nights is a good pace for that section for someone already in top shape and experienced on hiking these trails. For someone just starting out it would be killer.

A more realistic start is at the RT 2 crossing at Shelburne. That's only 22 miles to Pinkham. The trail over the Carter/Moriah range starts off really mellow, but there are a couple of serious knee cruncher descents. Watch out for the last descent into Pinkham Notch. At the end of the day when your tired and your knees are getting shaky, you have to be real careful as that is when most people injure themselves.

After that, if you can still get up and walk the next day your doing good. I just hope the OP has really long legs and a lean body.

[Linesman]

This is the trail running and speed hiking subforum. OP said he runs ultramarathons. Maybe you're in the wrong thread if you consider a day hike from Grafton to Gorham sheer hell.

Edit: my schedule is pretty strenuous and if jmeyerdo wants to avoid a long shuttle, he shouldn't drive all the way to Grafton. A shuttle from the white mountain lodge in gorham to the mahoosuc notch trailhead (skipping the notch, arm and old speck) is possible.

[colorado_rob]

This is the trail running and speed hiking subforum. OP said he runs ultramarathons. Maybe you're in the wrong thread if you consider a day hike from Grafton to Gorham sheer hell.

Amen...........

[gcobb1990]

I just want to make a note that the AT is relatively tame for many ultra marathon runners and people can certainly cover this terrain at 4-5 mph average. I know this is mostly a backpacking site, but these videos might clear up what ultra runners can be capable of:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_Z1-smRsoU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAeHysSVMUk

[jmeyerdo]

Great, gcobb1990!
Especially the first video (Anton Krupicka) gives a very good estimation of trailrunning. Of course you are not running (sprinting) like on the street but if you are fit (with "really long legs and a lean body") you can explore such trails very fast, even if you are hiking on some tough ascents also...

[Malto]

Great, gcobb1990!
Especially the first video (Anton Krupicka) gives a very good estimation of trailrunning. Of course you are not running (sprinting) like on the street but if you are fit (with "really long legs and a lean body") you can explore such trails very fast, even if you are hiking on some tough ascents also...

No, impossible and if it was possible it certainly wouldn't be fun! If you do this trip please come back and give a full report, regardless of the outcome. Anton is an an animal, that video makes me feel like a couch potato.

[jmeyerdo]

Yes, of course: I will try come back home without broken legs and hopefully with very much fun and great experiences. And write a short story/give a summary of course.
And of course 3rd: Anton is really an animal, same like Kilian. Incredible these guys...
Don't compare with animals, Malto. Compare with real couch potatoes. So I would assume you are doing a good job also. ;-)

[jmeyerdo]

Hello all!
I did it - and I am sill alive. Even if I have to say that you all were right with your suggestions: Those were trails I never experienced before - but it was makeable anyhow. I made 120miles in 5 days, approx. 20-25 each day (first day longer). Thank you for all your help in planning this trip!
A short summary and several pictures you can see here: http://www.motivatedbynature.eu/whitees2015

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[Just Bill]

Congrats to you on finding more than you planned!
It seems you were treated to all the Whites have to offer on your visit.
Not sure if I remember this is right but:

Willkommen zum Weg

[smatree]

I also like hiking for that would be a experience about the wild world.
I prefer Gopro Accessories to record the beautiful moment!

[jmeyerdo]

Dear Bill,
thank you for your kind words and congrats (especially perfectly in my home language )!
I hope you will have "good paths" also in the future,
all the best! Jens