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  1. #1

    Default Walking Faster aka Speed Walking

    First, let me say I know the best way to get better MPD (miles per day) is to walk longer not faster but I want this thread to be about walking technique / walking efficiency.

    I know my walking pace was a little slow and thought I could improve on it. So, one day I googled "walking faster" and came up with a plethora of web sites and videos dealing with speed walking & racewalking. Now, the only thing I knew about speed walking is how funny people look when their doing it.

    There is one fundamental in speed walking I found quite interesting and that is placing one foot directly in front of the other. I've tried this and it does pick up your pace but for me keeping my balance while doing this takes a little more effort.

    Now, since we're using trekking poles we are essentially Nordic walking. I found it much easier to keep my balance speed walking while using trekking poles.

    The only problem is so much of AT terrain isn't made for speed trekking.

    Basic speed walking video
    Basic Nordic waking video
    There isn't a Nordic speed walking video. Maybe I'll make one.
    I'm really not trying to speed hike I'm just trying to improve my walking technique. I really don't want to be like this guy on the trail.

    Your comments, thoughts tips.

  2. #2
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    I know that my pace has picked up over time. A couple of keys.
    1) Fitness. When your uphill, downhills and flat sections are all about the same speed then your in great shape. One thing that I have noticed about world class hikers is their uphills are all relatively fast.
    2) Downhill Techniques. When I hiked with swami on an AT section he amazed me at his natural downhill speed. it was all in technique, something that I have not mastered.
    3) stepping long not short. on rough terrain you have an option to avoid a rock, go long or short. The more you go long the faster your average speed.
    4) Practice walking fast. I normally walk quite fast but much of it came by practice. One treadmill routine I like to do is walk 4.5mph and slowly increase the elevation. I believe this will increase your average speed.

    Speed along with minimizing break and long hiking hours all combine to allow longer miles if that your thing. For those like me that love to walk then this makes for a great day!

  3. #3

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    Good topic. What goes with speed walking and is more pertinent to me when backpacking long distances is efficient waking/hiking. One can walk more efficiently which takes a backpacker, at least this backpacker, further, especially in the long term which is important to me as I'm normally not out there engaging in done in a day type hikes. I'm usually out on a hike for at least a week minimum. What I do today affects my performance tomorrow. I aim not to be a shotgun hiker, out of the gate fast but short on distance. Of course, there are some like Jen or Skurka that can do both routinely hike faster from the start, longer hrs, and efficiently. They are supreme athletes. I don't aim to be one of them doing what they do all the time though. I aim to be me to know myself, my style, and be comfortable with that. Hitting a hike while letting go of the egotistical self serving need to overly pridefully compare or compete with others or even myself leads to hiking more efficiently, joyously, and less recklessly! This leads to greater hiking/walking efficiency in my own way. IMO, walking efficiently, is not absolutely the same as speed walking which tends to mean walking at a fast pace though.

    I was recently thinking again about what you mentioned Chairman hiking more in a straight line not so much heel to toe type stuff but just without as much sidewards wasted motion. If you're not rigid about it and let the terrain dictate your motions walking straight isn't as difficult. It's when we push it at inappropriate times when it gets difficult. I practice this efficiency technique when not strictly out on a designated hike like when walking curbs, fences, tops of walls, obstacle courses, etc. This has the added benefit of increasing balance, footwork, and feeling grounded but light on my feet.

    Some other hiking/walking efficiencies I find myself using are: not taking as many deep vertical steps both on ascents and descents when I can cover the same vertical distance in two moves(this reduces quad and sole impact fatigue, increases my footing thereby reducing the potential for falls perhaps the #1 hiker malady), NOT stepping up onto something(large rock, log, etc) or down into something(like a trail depression even a rather shallow one) unnecessarily, maintaining my elevation by contouring even if it sometimes means going off trail or going a longer distance to do it(takes some experience to rightly decide when it's energy efficient to do this, I've found it an absolute necessity to master when off trail hiking!), expending energy wisely/getting the most trail distance/elev gain bang for the energy buck expended(I feel I have to when I'm gram weenying my food wt/daily caloric load, to me this means not rushing up steep ascents, it's not a race I'm in!, that means hiking/walking fast on flatter terrain and going usually slower on more technical terrain, this means I don't hike at the same pace all the time, I allow the terrain to somewhat dictate my pace, I'm not out there to fight or conquer the trail or my body, my goal is to flow/ebb with it to flow with the trail with the hike with everything!), looking slightly ahead anticipating obstacles to avoid like unstable rocks/wood/mud/rattlesnakes(LOL), using and mixing in backwards/forwards scissor steps when having to move sidewards/upwards/downwards(this brings other less often used muscle/muscle groups into use thereby not fatiguing the same muscles repeatedly and routinely), avoiding steeping into mud/water when I don't have to(the extra wt on the feet leads to faster and greater fatigue), not hiking overly stressed or anxiously, staying in the moment - then the next moment -then the next....yet keeping my focus on the goal, not hiking with slumped shoulders or downtrodden chin or ridgidly upright(our physiology -how we hold our bodies- plays into our emotional and mental states/well being!), staying flexible/limber/wirery in my body in my stride, hiking in a positive emotional and mental state which leads to greater energy, efficiency, and possible pace, hiking with the life aim/mindset of being grateful(so much to be grateful for!), and hiking with and demonstrating a heart of joy and charity(a hike doesn't have to be a selfish thing!, it can be a way a vehicle to positively impact others/the Universe, we're not alone out there!). Simply put, when we feel good about ourselves what we are doing it leads to more energy which has the potential for greater efficiency.

    BTW, if you ever get the opportunity to watch someone like Andrew, Jen, Scott Williams, or even a very seasoned efficient long distance hiker particularly when they don't know you're watching notice how they flow, hike so efficiently, almost float/glide just above the ground, and on focused purpose. My goodness it's magical watching a Skurka in the zone. I've learned much by just watching what I consider efficient hikers.

  4. #4

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    I walk a lot faster now in everyday life than I did before I was a hiker (if I can remember that far back)
    If and when I think about it, I try to stretch my stride out a little longer.
    I swing my arms on uphills (lesson learned from an ultra running buddy)
    And I almost always run the downhills. (the steeper it is, the shorter the steps)

    I remember on our Pyrenees hike, we were racing some European hikers one day and they couldn't match our speed.
    But, then we got behind a bunch of speed walkers who were training for the Olympics, and we were gaining on them, until they realized what we were doing, then they picked it up a notch and blew us away. those guys were fast (of course they didn't have packs on though)
    Don't let your fears stand in the way of your dreams

  5. #5

    Default

    Racewalking isn't natural, so to apply that technique to hiking isn't going to work; it'll only work on flat surfaces. Years ago I did look at racewalking and I got a little into it, but it didn't last, because I found that everything they do is all about getting your cadence high and that's why you see that funny looking gait and why they can burn more calories than a runner, because it's unnatural. It's all about doing everything to get the legs to move faster, but at the same time to always keep one foot on the ground, which requires the arm-pumping, hip-swaying movements; you can't do that stuff with a pack on and on a hiking trail full of rocks/roots, etc.

    There's a sad fact in life, which I found during my constant effort to improve my running. Forget all the crap out there that claims you must do this or that to improve, the biggest thing you do is just put in the miles. You gotta build a base and that can take a long, long time, especially for those of us that are not natural athletes.

    I’ve read books on running, but I don’t try and employ various running techniques; I’ve found that my stride that naturally comes to me is the best for me and that to try and force a stride on me is counterproductive. However, once I put in a certain number of miles I notice that my stride changes naturally – it’ kind of the crawl-before-you-walk-and-walk-before-you-run scenario.

    Then after I put in the miles I’ve noticed that things I read before, which at the time didn’t seem so important is now more appealing to me, such as speed work and hill running. But that’s only because I spent the time building my base.

    I imagine improving one’s hiking speed requires the same thing, i.e. you got to put in the miles and miles it requires building a base. And there are a lot of times that ain’t fun – it can be totally agonizing.

    It requires you to always going out there and walk, day-after-day; mile-after-mile. Only then will advice from others make sense or you’ll know it is BS.

    I know when I did my hike in 2006 I heard a lot of advice from others on how to hike better, but it all didn’t make sense, but as I put in the miles I could feel myself getting stronger every day (little by little) and at about the 600-mile point I literally felt like I was walking on air. If I had ambitions to be a speed hiker that would be the point that I would go to others and seek little pointers on how to improve my speed.

  6. #6
    Registered User Just Bill's Avatar
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    This is a subject upon which I have very strong opinions, so forgive me in advance or walk by this post at your preferred speed.

    Dogwood-"BTW, if you ever get the opportunity to watch someone like Andrew, Jen, Scott Williams, or even a very seasoned efficient long distance hiker particularly when they don't know you're watching notice how they flow, hike so efficiently, almost float/glide just above the ground, and on focused purpose. My goodness it's magical watching a Skurka in the zone. I've learned much by just watching what I consider efficient hikers."

    Pedaling Fool-"just put in the miles"

    Lone Wolf (paraphrased)- "Why are you carrying ski poles, ain't no snow"

    Malto, I have never had the privilege of watching Swami walk, something I would value more than meeting him. Perhaps though, simply said, he is better at falling than the rest of us. Something simple to say, but quite hard to master.

    A simple observation of the trail itself often reveals an insight- nearly all trails dedicated solely for walking take the form of singletrack, roughly 8-12" in width and only lightly tread on the edges. These trails are worn by those used to walking the woods, and wear with near balance beam precision. This image alone should influence any hiker who considers their motion. It is also the shape of any natural path cut by any being, be they two legged or four. When all the pieces are in place, walking flows like a small stream confined by its banks.

    Perhaps I give the fella more credit than he deserves, but in Lone Wolf's contrarian stance against hiking poles lies very solid advice. It is a different stride entirely, and not necessarily a good one. It is my belief that you should make every effort you can to learn to walk without them. While an experienced person like Skurka or JPD may choose to add them back in, they have the mileage in first. Matt Kirk and Scott Williamson- no poles. If they made sense, I would also like to imagine that generations of wisdom found in native peoples would have cut simple poles and taken them up if it was the more efficient motion. No matter your eventual preference, much can be gained in practicing without poles, barefoot, and walking on curbs or other balance beams found when strolling around.

    This is an in-exhaustible topic for me- so much so that if you like I am happy to send you the several chapters of an unfinished book if you care to read my words. It is my opinion that there is a way to flow in the woods. Speed hiking has never been about being fast for me, but being connected, flowing, and free. Speed is merely a byproduct of that equation, but has nothing to do with the inputs of that formula.

    But I will instead share here some quotes from folks who have greatly influenced my opinion and vastly improved my life-

    Starting with a fella who spent much time in your beloved Smokies, and in company with travelers White, Red, Yellow and somewhere in between;

    How to Walk.-
    There is somewhat the same difference between a townsman's and a woodsman's gait as there is between a soldier's and a sailor's. It is chiefly a difference of hip action, looseness of joints, and the manner of planting one's feet. The townsman's stride is an up-and-down knee action, with rather rigid hips, the toes pointing outward, and heels striking first. The carriage is erect, the movement springy and graceful, so long as one is walking over firm, level footing- but beware the banana-peel and the small boy's sliding-place! This is an ill-poised gait, because one's weight falls first upon the heel alone, and at that instant the walker has little command of his balance. It is an exhausting gait as soon as its normally short pace is lengthened by so much as an inch.

    A woodsman, on the contrary, walks with a rolling motion, his hips swaying an inch or more to the stepping side, and his pace is correspondingly long. This hip action may be noticed to an exaggerated degree in the stride of a professional pedestrian; but the latter walks with a heel and toe step, wheras an Indian's or sailor's step is more nearly flat footed. In the latter case the center of gravity is covered by the whole foot. The poise is as secure as that of a rope-walker. The toes are pointed straight forward, or even a trifle inward, so that the inside of the heel, the outside of the ball of the foot, and the smaller toes, all do their share of work and assist in balancing. Walking in this manner, one is not so likely, either, to trip over projecting roots, stones, and other traps, as he would be if the feet formed hooks by pointing outward.

    (A few paragraphs later) The woodsman walks with a springy knee action. There is "give" at every step, and in going down-hill the knees are bent a good deal, as they are when one carries a heavy burden. It is said of the Indian, "he does not walk, he glides." No Indian glides in boots, but put him in moccasins and the word does express his silent, rythmical, tireless, sure-footed progress, an admirable example of precision of movement and economy of effort. A white man acquires somewhat the same glide after getting used to moccasins, and especially after some experience on snowshoes, which compel him to walk with toes pointed straight ahead or a little inward.

    Over-Strain.-
    When carrying a pack on your back, do not over-exert yourself. Halt whenever your breathing is very labored or exertion becomes painful. Nobody who understands horses would think of driving them ahead when they show signs of distress, and there is quite as much common sense in treating yourself with the same consideration, if you want to travel far. Rig your pack at the start so it can be flung off whenever you sit down for a moment's rest; it pays. But don't halt more than three to five minutes. Long halts eat up daylight; they stiffen the muscles; and they cause chills and colds. Over-exertion is particularly disastrous in mountain climbing.

    Not only in marching but in other labors, go steadily but moderately. Do not chop to the point of exhaustion, nor strain yourself in lifting or carrying. A feat of "showing off" is poor compensation for a lame back.

    Horace Kephart


    "In walking though a primitive forest, an Indian or white woodsman can wear out a town-bred
    athlete, although the latter may be the stronger man. That is because a man who is used to walking in the woods has a knack of walking over uneven and slippery ground, edging though thickets, and worming his way amid fallen timber, with less fret and exertion than one who is accustomed to smooth, unobstructed paths."
    Horace Kephart, 1917 edition of Woodcraft

    "A controlled pace is not about speed or distance. Instead, it is about an absence of fatigue." Ray Jardine, Trail Life

    "One who is unused to long marches may get along pretty well the first day, but on the second morning it will seem as if he could not drag one foot after the other." Horace Kephart

    "If the Indian were turned to stone while in the act of stepping, the statue would probably stand balanced on one foot. … his steady balance enables him to put his moving foot down as gently as you would lay an egg on the table."
    H.G. Dulog- contemporary of Horace Kephart

    What's important isn't what part of the foot you strike but where it strikes. It should land slightly in front of your center of mass or right underneath it. When you have a high stride rate and land with the body centered over the foot, you won't be slamming down hard, even if you connect with the heel.
    Scott Jurek- "Eat and Run"

    "To run far, fast, or efficiently, you have to run with proper posture. Keep your shoulders back and your arms bent 45 degrees at the elbow. Allow your arms to swing freely, but don't let them cross the imaginary vertical line bisecting your body. This will create openness in the chest, better breathing, and more balance.

    Lean forward, but not at the hips. Imagine a rod running through your body from the head to the toes. Keep the rod at a slight forward angle to the ground, with a neutral pelvis. When the entire body participates, you're using gravity to your advantage. Remember, running is controlled falling."
    Scott Jurek- "Eat and Run"

    SPEED HIKING-
    Once in a great while all the aspects of walking come together, and then I have an hour or a day when I simply glide along, seemingly expending no energy. When this happens, distance melts under my feet, and I feel as though I could stride on forever. I can't force such moments and I don't know where they come from, but the more I walk, the more often they happen. Not surprisingly, they occur most often on really long treks. On these days, I've walked for five hours and twelve miles and more without a break, yet with such little effort that I don't realize how long and how far I've traveled until I finally stop. I never feel any effects afterward either, except perhaps, a greater feeling of well-being and contentment.
    Chris Townsend, “The Backpackers's Handbook”

  7. #7

    Default

    Thanks for the feedback

    Quote Originally Posted by Just Bill View Post
    Lean forward, but not at the hips. Imagine a rod running through your body from the head to the toes. Keep the rod at a slight forward angle to the ground, with a neutral pelvis. When the entire body participates, you're using gravity to your advantage. Remember, running is controlled falling."
    Scott Jurek- "Eat and Run"
    I have noticed that. Leaning forward just a bit does propel you forward cause you have to catch yourself. Like you said, you're using gravity to your advantage.

  8. #8

    Default

    Thanks everyone. That's some really good stuff. Good pts PF. JB, I only knew of Chris Towsend's quote. The others affirmed what I came to through much observation, trial, and error. Much thanks for sharing those words of advice. Excellent pts about the trekking pole gait being different than a trekking pole free style. I still haven't been able to master my gait/stride/hiking style using trekking poles. I feel they slow me down based on my non mastery of that gear. Looking forward to the book. This is one of my favorite hiking topics worth the time exploring even though it's a temporary distraction from the work on the computer I'm supposed to be doing.

  9. #9

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    I've also generally felt that poles slowed me down. That said, I'm pretty sure MK did use them on his hike (IIRC, he had DIY carbon fiber poles and broke one by stepping on it at some point towards the end of the trip).

  10. #10
    Registered User Damn Yankee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just Bill View Post
    This is a subject upon which I have very strong opinions, so forgive me in advance or walk by this post at your preferred speed.

    Dogwood-"BTW, if you ever get the opportunity to watch someone like Andrew, Jen, Scott Williams, or even a very seasoned efficient long distance hiker particularly when they don't know you're watching notice how they flow, hike so efficiently, almost float/glide just above the ground, and on focused purpose. My goodness it's magical watching a Skurka in the zone. I've learned much by just watching what I consider efficient hikers."

    Pedaling Fool-"just put in the miles"

    Lone Wolf (paraphrased)- "Why are you carrying ski poles, ain't no snow"

    Malto, I have never had the privilege of watching Swami walk, something I would value more than meeting him. Perhaps though, simply said, he is better at falling than the rest of us. Something simple to say, but quite hard to master.

    A simple observation of the trail itself often reveals an insight- nearly all trails dedicated solely for walking take the form of singletrack, roughly 8-12" in width and only lightly tread on the edges. These trails are worn by those used to walking the woods, and wear with near balance beam precision. This image alone should influence any hiker who considers their motion. It is also the shape of any natural path cut by any being, be they two legged or four. When all the pieces are in place, walking flows like a small stream confined by its banks.

    Perhaps I give the fella more credit than he deserves, but in Lone Wolf's contrarian stance against hiking poles lies very solid advice. It is a different stride entirely, and not necessarily a good one. It is my belief that you should make every effort you can to learn to walk without them. While an experienced person like Skurka or JPD may choose to add them back in, they have the mileage in first. Matt Kirk and Scott Williamson- no poles. If they made sense, I would also like to imagine that generations of wisdom found in native peoples would have cut simple poles and taken them up if it was the more efficient motion. No matter your eventual preference, much can be gained in practicing without poles, barefoot, and walking on curbs or other balance beams found when strolling around.

    This is an in-exhaustible topic for me- so much so that if you like I am happy to send you the several chapters of an unfinished book if you care to read my words. It is my opinion that there is a way to flow in the woods. Speed hiking has never been about being fast for me, but being connected, flowing, and free. Speed is merely a byproduct of that equation, but has nothing to do with the inputs of that formula.

    But I will instead share here some quotes from folks who have greatly influenced my opinion and vastly improved my life-

    Starting with a fella who spent much time in your beloved Smokies, and in company with travelers White, Red, Yellow and somewhere in between;

    How to Walk.-
    There is somewhat the same difference between a townsman's and a woodsman's gait as there is between a soldier's and a sailor's. It is chiefly a difference of hip action, looseness of joints, and the manner of planting one's feet. The townsman's stride is an up-and-down knee action, with rather rigid hips, the toes pointing outward, and heels striking first. The carriage is erect, the movement springy and graceful, so long as one is walking over firm, level footing- but beware the banana-peel and the small boy's sliding-place! This is an ill-poised gait, because one's weight falls first upon the heel alone, and at that instant the walker has little command of his balance. It is an exhausting gait as soon as its normally short pace is lengthened by so much as an inch.

    A woodsman, on the contrary, walks with a rolling motion, his hips swaying an inch or more to the stepping side, and his pace is correspondingly long. This hip action may be noticed to an exaggerated degree in the stride of a professional pedestrian; but the latter walks with a heel and toe step, wheras an Indian's or sailor's step is more nearly flat footed. In the latter case the center of gravity is covered by the whole foot. The poise is as secure as that of a rope-walker. The toes are pointed straight forward, or even a trifle inward, so that the inside of the heel, the outside of the ball of the foot, and the smaller toes, all do their share of work and assist in balancing. Walking in this manner, one is not so likely, either, to trip over projecting roots, stones, and other traps, as he would be if the feet formed hooks by pointing outward.

    (A few paragraphs later) The woodsman walks with a springy knee action. There is "give" at every step, and in going down-hill the knees are bent a good deal, as they are when one carries a heavy burden. It is said of the Indian, "he does not walk, he glides." No Indian glides in boots, but put him in moccasins and the word does express his silent, rythmical, tireless, sure-footed progress, an admirable example of precision of movement and economy of effort. A white man acquires somewhat the same glide after getting used to moccasins, and especially after some experience on snowshoes, which compel him to walk with toes pointed straight ahead or a little inward.

    Over-Strain.-
    When carrying a pack on your back, do not over-exert yourself. Halt whenever your breathing is very labored or exertion becomes painful. Nobody who understands horses would think of driving them ahead when they show signs of distress, and there is quite as much common sense in treating yourself with the same consideration, if you want to travel far. Rig your pack at the start so it can be flung off whenever you sit down for a moment's rest; it pays. But don't halt more than three to five minutes. Long halts eat up daylight; they stiffen the muscles; and they cause chills and colds. Over-exertion is particularly disastrous in mountain climbing.

    Not only in marching but in other labors, go steadily but moderately. Do not chop to the point of exhaustion, nor strain yourself in lifting or carrying. A feat of "showing off" is poor compensation for a lame back.

    Horace Kephart


    "In walking though a primitive forest, an Indian or white woodsman can wear out a town-bred
    athlete, although the latter may be the stronger man. That is because a man who is used to walking in the woods has a knack of walking over uneven and slippery ground, edging though thickets, and worming his way amid fallen timber, with less fret and exertion than one who is accustomed to smooth, unobstructed paths."
    Horace Kephart, 1917 edition of Woodcraft

    "A controlled pace is not about speed or distance. Instead, it is about an absence of fatigue." Ray Jardine, Trail Life

    "One who is unused to long marches may get along pretty well the first day, but on the second morning it will seem as if he could not drag one foot after the other." Horace Kephart

    "If the Indian were turned to stone while in the act of stepping, the statue would probably stand balanced on one foot. … his steady balance enables him to put his moving foot down as gently as you would lay an egg on the table."
    H.G. Dulog- contemporary of Horace Kephart

    What's important isn't what part of the foot you strike but where it strikes. It should land slightly in front of your center of mass or right underneath it. When you have a high stride rate and land with the body centered over the foot, you won't be slamming down hard, even if you connect with the heel.
    Scott Jurek- "Eat and Run"

    "To run far, fast, or efficiently, you have to run with proper posture. Keep your shoulders back and your arms bent 45 degrees at the elbow. Allow your arms to swing freely, but don't let them cross the imaginary vertical line bisecting your body. This will create openness in the chest, better breathing, and more balance.

    Lean forward, but not at the hips. Imagine a rod running through your body from the head to the toes. Keep the rod at a slight forward angle to the ground, with a neutral pelvis. When the entire body participates, you're using gravity to your advantage. Remember, running is controlled falling."
    Scott Jurek- "Eat and Run"

    SPEED HIKING-
    Once in a great while all the aspects of walking come together, and then I have an hour or a day when I simply glide along, seemingly expending no energy. When this happens, distance melts under my feet, and I feel as though I could stride on forever. I can't force such moments and I don't know where they come from, but the more I walk, the more often they happen. Not surprisingly, they occur most often on really long treks. On these days, I've walked for five hours and twelve miles and more without a break, yet with such little effort that I don't realize how long and how far I've traveled until I finally stop. I never feel any effects afterward either, except perhaps, a greater feeling of well-being and contentment.
    Chris Townsend, “The Backpackers's Handbook”
    You sure have long winded fingers.

    "You will go out in joy and be led forth in peace;the mountains and hills will burst into song before you, and all the trees of the field will clap their hands."
    Isaiah 55:12

  11. #11
    Registered User Just Bill's Avatar
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    Caleb- still fairly sure no on Matt, but it doesn't matter-whatever works for you. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...pdmlFc1E#gid=0

    DW- That book ain't coming out any time soon...Just a book of bull**** and lies.
    Happy to send the walking section to anyone interested though as the book it's in is collecting dust on my hard drive for now.

    For anyone interested-
    Kephart's excellent book is free on google/kindle and worth a read for any camper regardless of style.
    His hero/mentor was Nessmuk, who carried a 25lb kit in the 1890's which included his canoe and paddle, a feat only recently matched by modern gear. (and only just barely)http://www.hornbeckboats.com/boats_bjc_12.php

    Nessmuk's book can be found as well (George W. Sears) for free, and is a quick read. Kephart's book is by far the more refined and complete, and though written in 1915 or so, has lots of good info.

    Trekking poles-
    I certainly understand how and why many choose them, especially for a violent trail like the AT. Regardless of your choice, a fair bit of time should be spent learning to walk without them IMO. Having already walked quite well, I found them an annoyance even on the ski slopes. To be fair, a good deal of time spent paddling and climbing has greatly increased my body awareness and mechanics.

    I feel poorly for younger hikers who pick them up for no good reason other than to go with the crowd. They are a tool to be used when needed, not a crutch. Their use and required body mechanics prevent you from learning the woods walk you would adapt naturally in the course of a normal hike. When I see a fit twenty something with poles all I want to do is shout "JIMMAA" at them. (Jimmy from South Park)

    We all age and wear down, or occasionally shoulder a larger load and one day I may find the need to pick up a pair as a tool myself, but then my pappy still seems to make it from the golf course to the bar stool and back in less than peak condition, so I think that day is likely far off.

    FWIW, it has been my observation of fairly fast folks who do go with the cripple sticks that they use them a bit shorter than average so as to achieve a slight forward lean, longer gait and better footwork. I obviously cannot speak from experience, but just passing an observation along.

    Do what you like, HYOH and such. When it's time for a trip, stick with what you know works.
    But when you're out and about on day trips or tune-ups... experiment a bit.

    The only bad choice is an uniformed one.
    I tried the sticks for a few hundred miles, and can say with certainty they aren't for me.
    If you've gone without and done the same, I respect that choice very much.
    I'm just glad to see you out there, cripple sticks or not.

  12. #12
    Registered User lonehiker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Damn Yankee View Post
    You sure have long winded fingers.
    I only read maybe the first couple of sentences and maybe the last sentence of dogs vacuous posts.
    Lonehiker (MRT '22)

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    Quote Originally Posted by lonehiker View Post
    I only read maybe the first couple of sentences and maybe the last sentence of dogs vacuous posts.
    You missed the best stuff than. In the middle of the post was a sales security code fro $

  14. #14

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    ...was a sales security code I was giving away for $300 of free gear from Zpacks.

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    Registered User dangerdave's Avatar
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    I'm new to long-distance hiking, and I assumed (yea, I know) that trekking poles would be helpful. I like using them. They do seem to help me, and I am not going to try my thru-hike without them---crutch or not. This noob needs crutches.

    So, given that the general opinion is that years of long distance and weekend hiking are required to develop an efficient gate, what do all of you recommend for a noob who has four months to departure on the AT? I'm going to get in as much hiking as I can, but winter appears to already be kicking in here in Ohio, so hiking opportunities will likely be slim until early next Spring. Snowboarding keeps me occupied during the winter, but that's just not the same muscle set as backpacking.

    I think, in the end, I am just going to have to do my best. Which will likely involve a lot of walking through the pain next April. The poles will help with that, certainly.
    AKA "DANGER" AT Thru-Hiker Class of 2015

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    I do believe Jen Davis used poles, and if you google, you will find a few pics of her and Matt kirk when he joined her, both hiking with poles. They went "crazy fast" together. I'm sure it was the company, not the poles.

    Use them if you like, don't if you don't. They save knees on downhills though, and hold up tents. Hiking isn't all about speed.

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Just Bill View Post
    I tried the sticks for a few hundred miles, and can say with certainty they aren't for me.
    JB, are you sure you were using the right technique with the pole? Did you see the whole video I posted in post #1?

    The poles drag behind you. You don't reach out with the poles except on down hills.

    I first thought trekking poles were gimmicky until I tried them. I'm glad I watched a good training video first.

    I keep mine extended long. The long length doesn't seem to matter when on flat or uphill terrain and then they are always ready for the downhills.

    I'm going to post this video again. Notice how nothing changes with the arm swing when walking it just a matter of DRAGGING the poles and pushing off. Don't over think it.

    The poles help me so much on the uphills. It's like 4 wheel drive and they're great for balance on the downhills.

    I read somewhere that 95 percent of successful thru hikers used poles. I doubt these hikers would be toting the poles if they didn't work.

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Just Bill View Post
    Caleb- still fairly sure no on Matt, but it doesn't matter-whatever works for you. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...pdmlFc1E#gid=0
    Pretty sure you're right. The story I remembered of him breaking one actually occurred a few months before his thru-hike. I did a search on his blog:
    http://matthewkirk.blogspot.com/search?q=poles

    No reference to actually taking them on the trip. One interesting post here:
    http://matthewkirk.blogspot.com/2013...ing-poles.html

  19. #19
    Registered User Just Bill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dangerdave View Post
    I'm new to long-distance hiking, and I assumed (yea, I know) that trekking poles would be helpful. I like using them. They do seem to help me, and I am not going to try my thru-hike without them---crutch or not. This noob needs crutches.

    So, given that the general opinion is that years of long distance and weekend hiking are required to develop an efficient gate, what do all of you recommend for a noob who has four months to departure on the AT? I'm going to get in as much hiking as I can, but winter appears to already be kicking in here in Ohio, so hiking opportunities will likely be slim until early next Spring. Snowboarding keeps me occupied during the winter, but that's just not the same muscle set as backpacking.

    I think, in the end, I am just going to have to do my best. Which will likely involve a lot of walking through the pain next April. The poles will help with that, certainly.
    Dave-
    You are actually entering the perfect time to learn to walk. As Kephart says, beware the banana peel or child's sliding place. Walking in snow and ice will force you to learn to walk with good posture. As an added bonus, spending the winter in Ohio's teens will leave you well acclimated to 30's in Georgia and the smokies when you get started. start slow, with your pack and build up speed. You will learn quite quickly that not keeping your feet under you will result in dangerous footing. In order to move at all you will be forced to keep your feet centered and under your body. Any foot placement outside this alignment will cause your feet to skitter away from you in short order. Without poles you will fall on your ass for awhile. But your body will figure it out quickly that it prefers to stay upright and adjust.

    After that- you have 2200 miles of trail to learn to walk- take advantage! It is actually much harder to maintain the woods walk off trail than on. Being on trail and learning to use your body will leave you with good trail toes in the same time it takes you to develop trail legs. Again, take it slow and the speed will come. Committing to poles is committing to learning to walk with them. Spend the winter without and you may feel differently come spring.

  20. #20
    Registered User Just Bill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MuddyWaters View Post
    I do believe Jen Davis used poles, and if you google, you will find a few pics of her and Matt kirk when he joined her, both hiking with poles. They went "crazy fast" together. I'm sure it was the company, not the poles.

    Use them if you like, don't if you don't. They save knees on downhills though, and hold up tents. Hiking isn't all about speed.
    For certain Jen used poles, though she started with a broomstick.
    For certain Matt tried poles. As Caleb posts below though he abandoned them.

    Matt is a tinkerer, and will rarely dismiss something he hasn't tried as far as I can tell.
    Matt also keeps a circle of trust in regards to his gear that puts Tipi Walter to shame. A pole failed him- they're out. But in reading the posts Caleb cited, you can see that an injury (excellent reason for poles) was the main driver in his choice to use them at all.

    Holding up your tent-
    Careful with this. I would suggest highly that anyone using this "tried and true" piece of advice consider that shelter and INCLUDE the weight of the poles. More often than not, the combined weight of pole and shelter is dubious "spreadsheet" math my pappy would likely scoff at. Often you may find that pole and shelter weigh more than other options, or at least compare more favorably with many UL freestanding tents.

    If for other reasons, you are an affirmed pole user, then by all means take advantage. But again, I see many younger folks justify both pole and shelter only because they work together. Folks from Kephart to Jardine got along quite nicely with shelters lighter than some we now use long before the hiking pole was introduced. I think it is always worth a hard think when looking at trekking pole shelters- would you choose one if not for the other?

    I have no issue with either choice, so long as it is well thought out and fits your system and style.

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