Flip Flop Class of 2015 Unite!

[Lauriep]

SlingShot,

Excellent feedback, thank you. Duly noted.


Grampie,

Perhaps dividing a thru-hike into 2 pieces does make it more likely that a thru-hike will turn into a section-hike. That may turn out to be a good thing for some.

The longer you are out there, the more it can become about just doing the miles, and toward the end, just getting it over with to say you've done it.

Benton MacKaye, the founder of the Appalachian Trail, said that the purpose of the Appalachian Trail is "To walk, to see, and to see what you see."

A section-hike allows you a lot more freedom. You can hike entire Trail in the fall, hike the entire Trail in the springtime, pick the prime time to enjoy each section, avoid the crowds, meet the thru-hikers, or whatever it is about the A.T. experience you most enjoy.

You can keep your job and not miss birthdays, anniversaries, and other highlights in the lives of the ones you love.

[kushtakaa]

Laurie, our experience on Katahdin was similar to Sling Shot's. Thru's were all business. It was day hikers, etc that were dumping garbage and throwing poop stained kleenex all over the place. We got there before the big bubbles though...the big groups of youngsters might shift the equation...

[kushtakaa]

Grampie...I think the numbers are still in favor of alternative (flip) throughs. Nobos are around 25% completion, sobo's @ about 45%...and flipper's at over 60%.

[ekeverette]

who are some of the flipper's that are still going?

[joshuasdad]

I hiked Maryland with some of the flip-floppers. I think that Spice is still on the trail, as well as Bourbon Bill (I think, or some other alcoholic beverage name...). Maybe Batona as well. Orange Whip is supposedly getting back on the trail for a long section hike after injury. Reports really dried up after the two major Facebook site posters were forced off the trail.

[kushtakaa]

Batona was still on a week ago (passed her in the southern Shen. Park). Heard from a great yoyo'er (Giuseppe) that Spice was definitely going to flip south and Bourbon was not sure (he summited Katahdin near both)...we have yet to hear from them or see their names in shelter registers, but don't check all. Those are the only one's I know of that started from HF at/around the flip-kickoff...didn't really meet or get to know any/many others besides Dangerdave, Sling Shot and Jimmy Jam. My wife and I started ours from Swift Run in the Shen. Park and hit HF a week before the kickoff (we are still actively heading south from our flip...should complete by end of Oct. barring injury). I have met other flipper's that didn't participate in the kickoff (pretty sure that a majority started at other spots or times) that are still hiking (or were when we last heard from them). The HF kickoff flipper's seem to have been hit pretty hard by injury this year...nothing to do with where or when they started as breakdown can happen to anyone, anytime out here. We have been lucky so far...not that we don't perpetually hurt. I think the flipper population might be the hardest one to tabulate, due to the variety of starting spots and dates...let alone the fact that the group holds not only intentional flippers, but unintentional as well (i.e. all those that started in Georgia but we're going too slow or started too late and flipped up to Katahdin to head south)...

[Lauriep]

Yes, agree with Kushtakaa, it's really hard to capture flip-flopper starting numbers. They start at so many different locations. If the staff member or volunteer in Harpers Ferry who took their picture doesn't hover over them, we sometimes don't even get a record of where or when they start or where they did or plan to flip from.

We don't really know what the success rate of past flippers is. The "alternative thru-hike" numbers at www.appalachiantrail.org/2000milers shows starting numbers, Harpers Ferry numbers, and completion numbers. But flip-floppers numbers might be confusing because we list only Harpers Ferry numbers and completion numbers. We haven't listed start numbers, because we don't have them. Most of the Harpers Ferry numbers in past years are those who came from Georgia and were halfway at that point we counted them.

This year the flippers starting mid-Trail I believe, for the first time, overtook the Georgia-start flippers.

I do think this year we observed that the PA rocks are harder on thru-hikers just starting out than we anticipated, especially hikers who aren't 20-somethings. I wonder if that contributed significantly to all the injuries this year or if they would have happened anywhere doing that kind of mileage day after day? The ascents and descents in Georgia are tough for a lot of nobos. A shuttler form Georgia keeps calling us to tell us how many nobos quit after blowing out their knees on the long descent down Blood Mountain into Neels Gap.

Periodically I think about whether Waynesboro/Rockfish Gap or other points in Shenandoah would make a better ideal start to help hiker develop their trail legs. I keep going back to it being colder, meaning you'd have to start later for the same weather you're shooting for, and since you're further south later, you'd be closer to the bubble.

What do you Shenandoah starters think about your plan, and how does it compare with what you've heard from those who started in Harpers Ferry?


One thing that the nobos (and now sobos in the form of Poet at Shaw's in Monson, ME) have that a Harpers Ferry nobo flip doesn't have: a chance for a major gear overhaul and pack shakedown after the first week or so. That can be hugely helpful for those who start with heavy packs and/or are novices. Having a great gear store at the start isn't utilized as much as it could be, because most people are pretty committed the gear they've spent hard-earned money on. It's only after a week of pain and suffering, while watching others with lighter packs and gear waltz by, that people are ready to pull out their credit card again.

There's a business opportunity just waiting for someone around Waynesboro, PA, or maybe at the A.T. Museum around Caledonia State Park.

This year we had more flip-floppers participate in the voluntary registration than sobos (290 vs. 199). (Check out the charts at www.appalachiantrail.org/thruhikeregistration.) That doesn't mean there were actually more flip-floppers; we've heard probably close to 400 sobos start in Baxter, if not more). I believe flip-floppers were the most likely group to registers, sobos the least.

The point is, there is a significant and growing number of flip-floppers.

[dangerdave]

I'm following Spice Girl on her Facebook blog, "Emily Hiked the Appalachian Trail". She's making her way south through Virginia.

My feet started hurting somewhere in PA and slowly got worse until they became unbearable. Adjusting to home when my mind still wants to be hiking has been a challenge. Johnna says part of me is still out there, and she's right. It's a very strange thing.

As for the FFKO date, I think earlier has its pros and cons. Some places had just opened up when we came through. I know from those I met (including Jeff of Green Mountain House) that the hostels, hotels, restaurants, groceries, shuttles, outfitters, etc were all delighted with the new bubble bolstering their business. And they weren't worn down yet by the masses. Perhaps---I know it's a stretch---some of the infrastructure could be convinced to come on line earlier if the FF numbers increase.

Just my thoughts from Danger = Section Hiker.


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[SteelCut]

I do think this year we observed that the PA rocks are harder on thru-hikers just starting out than we anticipated, especially hikers who aren't 20-somethings. I wonder if that contributed significantly to all the injuries this year or if they would have happened anywhere doing that kind of mileage day after day?

I started my flip-flop attempt at HF on 4/19. I was not part of the kick-off but it seems like from the comments that I've seen here on WB that a significant majority of those that started from HF on flip-flop hikes this year were older hikers. As an older hiker, I feel that it's especially important to start the trail already in trail shape. I was lulled into a false sense that the trail starting at HF was easy enough that I could get into shape as I hiked. For me, the hiking was easy but what's not taken into account is that you are still hiking everyday. Hiking 8, 10, or 12 miles a day everyday over easy terrain is going to lead to over-use injuries for those that are not trained to hike that many days in a row. This is a larger factor, IMHO, than the rock factor.

At least I will be much much better prepared physically for my next flip-flop attempt next year.

Since it appears that the flip-flop hikes are appealing to older hikers, I would hope that the ATC would strongly encourage hikers, especially older hikers, to arrive at the start of their hikes already in shape and have completed shakedown hikes of sufficient length to prepare their bodies and minds to the challenges ahead.

[Lauriep]

DangerDave and SteelCut, thanks so much for your feedback.

Danger Dave, if we elect to start earlier in 2016, we will make a point of notifying service providers about the flip-flop kick off and the wave of earlier hikers they can expect.

Steelcut, well said, and duly noted. I've heard this from others.

We'll do more to promote advance preparation, and beef up what we say. We do discuss this on our website at www.appalachiantrail.org/hiking/thru-section-hiking/preparation. When our new website comes out in the coming weeks, we'll review and make sure what you have observed is emphasized.

There does seem to be a big difference in the experience of 20-something hikers and their older counterparts.

[Treehugger]

I personally think all of these points are valid but another thing was happening out there. That is competition, keeping up with the Joneses. Flippers were not immune to this young or old, male or female just like happens to NOBOs and SOBOs. Almost across the board, save Sling Shot, the fastest got hurt. Of the group I was with only 3 remain on the trail and they were middle of the pack hiking speed. Also, preexisting ailments of many kinds got the best of many of the older hikers. Recoup time is longer for them also, which keeps them off the trail longer eating up time and enthusiasm. Just wanted to add that, thanks!

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[joshuasdad]

I love the concept of using Maryland and Pennsylvania as a training ground for an AT hiker, with one caveat...it is a great training ground for a SECTION hiker. I started there on my section hikes, beat myself up on a weekly basis, cussed to myself loudly on the drive home (because I read that cussing reduces pain), but then had a few days to recover from the 13-20 mile days I was hiking.

NOBO from HF flip-floppers risk three major types of injury:

1) Their muscles, tendons, skin, etc. are not ready for the pounding of Pennsylvania rocks, and they can become injured if they try to do long-distance days there.

2) Because hiking techniques and reflexes are not well developed, they can be injured by trips, falls, ankle-twisting, etc. in the rocks.

3) Because MD and PA is relatively flat, injury may occur owing to improper climbing and descending techniques when encountering more rugged terrain (e.g., NY) and extended uphills/downhills (e.g., Greylock, Killington, pretty much all of New Hampshire). It took me a while to realize that "comically slow" was a good technique for climbing steeps, as such helps to prevent knee injury. I also learned how to use poles to reduce pounding on descents.

From a logistics standpoint, in my view, flip-floppers should start 5 days or more north or south of HF (e.g., Harrisburg, PA or Front Royal, VA) and hike to HF. There, they can attend a kick-off, do a gear shakedown, resupply, rest, etc -- much like traditional NOBOs do at Neels Gap.

If I were to do an alternative thru-hike, I would do a modified "Cool Breeze" itinerary, i.e., hiking the trail in three sections. For example:

1) Start SOBO from Harrisburg, PA (an easy to reach location with very forgiving terrain and lots of hiker services to the south).
2) Rest and do pack shakedown in Harper's Ferry (which has easy access to Washington DC outfitters if needed).
3) Continue SOBO until Trail Days in mid-May, get ride to Damascus for Trail Days.
4) Attend Trail Days
5) Get ride to Harrisburg, PA after Trail Days (use Ride Board).
6) Hike NOBO to Katahdin
7) Flip down to SOBO ending point, and continue SOBO to Springer.

But that is something that would work for me. YMMV.

Welcome to section hiking Danger! I'm planning on heading out for a 4-5 day hike in a couple weeks, feel free to drop me a PM if you want to meet up somewhere.

[kushtakaa]

Start place: I still like the Shen. Park for us because of nearness to family/friends, and more "relaxed" miles before ruggedness begins in PA. Ease of access by train makes HF yet more appealing to more people methinks, but you might have something there about hitting the PA rocks before the body is ready for them...they didn't really bother us.

Start time: weather wise, our 30 deg. quilts have been sufficient thus far...didn't need anything warmer and probably could have started a week earlier. We started in fairly poor shape, took us over 4 months to hit Katahdin but still beat the big bubbles by 2-3 weeks (I think the Nobos that summited wit us were in the early 200's), so we could have left up to 2 weeks later and still stayed ahead of the masses. Flipping back down to the Shen. Park in late August we fin ourselves ahead of most Sobo's (I think only 10 or so of the fast one's are ahead of us), so it's a bit lonely out here at times...thus it might have bee, better to start a few weeks later in order to have a bit more southbound company. Water (btw) is sparse in central/southern VA at this time of the year. Ultimately, I'm really not sure there is a perfect time to start a flip. There is a flipper called Slapshot (carries a hockey stick) that went south from HF, so met all Nobos, then flipped to Katahdin to hike south with the Sobos...seemed to like it. Point is (I think)...no matter where and when one starts, and what direction one chooses, things are going to come up that must be dealt with that will vary on so many factors.

Gear shake down: We probably shipped unnecessary and replaced gear 3 or 4 times over the first 2 months...were able to find suitable replacement things in the various communities. It would be nice (for those that start out with way too much) to have a good outfitter within the first 100 miles (I wasn't impressed with knowledge or selection at the one in HF), but flipper's tend to be older, more experienced hikers that have though things out before beginning the adventure, so the point is mostly moot.

Thought on injuries: Zero Days! :-) Yes they make the trip longer and cost more, but I think that had my wife and I not taken a day off every 7-14 days, we would probably not still be heading south to Springer. Older joints and muscles just need more rest and recovery...

[joshuasdad]

I agree, Rockfish Gap (south entrance of SNP) would be an ideal starting place IF the weather was good. My concern is the possibility of spring snow and exposure at elevations nearing 4000 feet. I've hiked in a Winter Storm Warning at Rockfish Gap in October.... That's why I suggest low elevation Front Royal or Harrisburg as a starting point. Harrisburg in some respects is actually easier to reach then Harper's Ferry, as it has an airport, Amtrak, and multiple bus lines serving it. What it does not have is the inspirational scenery of Harper's Ferry, but the view improves immensely in a few hiked miles.

[ekeverette]

I was a flipper,at the HF kick off, and the P.A. rocks really put a hurting on me. Got off at DWG. When I attempted in 2012 from GA. I made it to central VA. So I would definitely say Waynesboro would be good starting point to get your feet ready for PA. rocks. Does anyone know if BISCUIT (the brit) is still out there? He was hilariously funny!!

[Odd Man Out]

...There is a flipper called Slapshot (carries a hockey stick) that went south from HF, so met all Nobos, then flipped to Katahdin to hike south with the Sobos...seemed to like it. ...

So if hiking NOBO or SOBO form HF are both viable alternatives, how about a coin flip hike. Start at HF and on the morning of your first day you flip a coin. Heads you go north, tails you go south. Plus you get an obvious trail name.

[Treehugger]

Yes, Biskit is almost to Katahdin with Bad Brad and Baby Girl. The last of the Merry Band of Flip Floppers!

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[dangerdave]

Welcome to section hiking Danger! I'm planning on heading out for a 4-5 day hike in a couple weeks, feel free to drop me a PM if you want to meet up somewhere.

I appreciate the invite more than you could imagine. Thank you. I'm still healing, and not sure when it would be wise (or not) to return to the trail. I haven't even attempted a day hike since returning home. I had no idea my feet had gotten so bad until I stopped walking.

I did everything I could to solve the problem along the way. As my hike progressed, I massaged, stretched, took more breaks, slowed down, changed my gate, changed my inserts, changed my shoes; I rolled, soaked, rested, etc. My zero days went from once a week, to two at a time, then three. It was so gradual and insidious, that it wasn't over until it was over. Plantar fasciitis is no joke, and it doesn't go away quickly. It too 909 miles for it to work its way into my soul. When every day and every step became misery, I began to hate what I loved.

I have accept that my feet may not be made for thru-hiking, but I might make one hell of a section hiker!

We shall see...

My plan for the future is to attend every FFKO for as long as they last. I'll even hike out with the new classes, and hang with them for a week or two to help encourage them along their way. That's how I will give back what has so generously come to me.


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[Sling Shot]

A Walk in the Woods...I saw the movie the other day. It was funny, just as the book is. Here are just a few items I took away. Mellon and I were easily the youngest in the theater. I also heard this from another friend of mine when they saw it. If that is a trend, I don't think we have to worry about a huge increase of younger hikers on the trail.
They were carrying their trekking poles stored in the packs the whole time and never used them. Lastly, I wished they would have used some more funny parts from the book in the movie and give a little more history of the making of the trail. Still worth going to see. I also think they could have made it PG-13 and brought more knowledge to a younger audience and teach the importance of caring for the trail to our future generations. Just my thoughts.

[Treehugger]

I saw it too. I thought is was poorly edited with no flow. No references to where they were and no tying up of loose ends. Pretty a bad movie by two actors whose ships have long past sailed. I agree the bump of hikers on the AT will be a lot less than anticipated because of the age demographic and low quality of the movie.

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