Flip Flop Class of 2015 Unite!

[squeezebox]

jgaissar; Get a few phone #s from us and bus it up to us and meet us where we are late may.
Flipping out to Atlanta ??? I would think weather issues mostly. Finishing around Halloween in HF vs. Atlanta might be different. Aug. in HF or Atlanta?? Consider elevation changes in temperature changes also.

[Lauriep]

Here's a question for you more experienced hikers-- many Flip Floppers either start at Springer, head to HF, then flip to Katahdin and hike back south to HF, or start at HF, head N to Katahdin, then flip back to HF and hike south to Springer, but I haven't heard of many people doing the following-- what are the advantages/disadvantages of starting at HF in May, hiking N to Katahdin, then flipping to Springer and ending in HF? So basically doing a nobo, but the second half first.

jgaisser,

The first thing to note is that the vast majority of flip-floppers throughout the history of the A.T. have been unintentional/unplanned flip-floppers--thru-hikers who started in Georgia in March or April as nobos, and for whatever reason found themselves behind schedule and decided to flip later.

Having talked to hundreds of these flip floppers at their decision point or when they've ended their hike, the biggest disadvantage to this most common flip in the past (over the one that most of the folks on this thread are doing--Harpers Ferry nobo) are the following:

• The challenges of entering Baxter State Park by car (finite numbers of parking spots and camping spots--you can be turned away at the gate if the park is full and you don't have a reservation)
• The shock at the difficulty of climbing Katahdin and hiking in Maine straight from some of the easier terrain of the A.T.
• Hiking through Pennsylvania (where the A.T. passes through game lands managed for hunting) during hunting season. You'll see lots of hunters and hear lots of gunshots.

The positives of this most common flip (until now) are:

• Meeting all your northbound friends on the second leg as you hike south
• Hiking through southern New England and the mid-Atlantic in fall colors

Though not many point to this, it's worth noting that this plan allows you to skip over most of the worst of prime tick territory during the period ticks are most active (but if you flip from Harpers Ferry, you're still going through northern Virginia, which has a fairly high incidence of Lyme disease)

However, if you are going to consider a flip that starts in Georgia, ATC asks hikers to consider waiting until after April 15, when the numbers have thinned to help spread out the crowds of nobos. You'll still have plenty of time to complete your hike in moderate weather/temperature conditions. In the mid-Atlantic, we typically don't see much snow until December, although even October can start to have a few chilly night, and a rare snowfall (maybe once every 10 years) that would melt overnight or in a day or two. November is a transition months, with a mixture of mild weather and really occasional cold temps. The last of the leaves in Maryland hang on through about mid-November (much later than they do in the high elevations of the South).

Though you didn't ask specifically about fall colors, here's a guide that may be of interest to you and others on the thread:

appalachiantrail.org/hiking/find-a-hike/appalachian-trail-fall-foliage.

Note it lists the times of average peak foliage; you'll see touches of color, especially the reds, in the woods (if not noticeable on the hillsides from a distance) sooner, and the yellows will last longer.

If you haven't seen this page on ATC's website, I think you'll find it useful:

appalachiantrail.org/hiking/thru-section-hiking/when-where-to-start

[jgaisser]

jgaissar; Get a few phone #s from us and bus it up to us and meet us where we are late may.
Flipping out to Atlanta ??? I would think weather issues mostly. Finishing around Halloween in HF vs. Atlanta might be different. Aug. in HF or Atlanta?? Consider elevation changes in temperature changes also.

Yes, that's what I'm curious about. The advantages/disadvantages of doing a nobo hike starting in May from HF to Katahdin, and then traveling down to Springer mountain and hiking back up to HF. Just considering possibilities

[kushtakaa]

I think the worst part of finishing your hike heading north to HF from Springer would be cold weather timing, but it might not be a big issue. Which has worse weather in late October/early November? The Shenandoah National Park, or northern Georgia? You'll be starting at Springer in mid-July/early August and it will be hot there...but maybe no hotter than Central VA at that time of year?

[Treehugger]

I agree the weather would not be great for hiking that secind leg but there's also the loneliness factor. You will be with very few NOBOs from Springer to HF. You will pass SOBOs as they make their way diwn and some sectioners but the time with them cud be fleeting making loneliness more pronounced.

[full conditions]

I think the worst part of finishing your hike heading north to HF from Springer would be cold weather timing, but it might not be a big issue. Which has worse weather in late October/early November? The Shenandoah National Park, or northern Georgia? You'll be starting at Springer in mid-July/early August and it will be hot there...but maybe no hotter than Central VA at that time of year?

I'm not positive about the Shenandoah end of things, but November in the Smokies and Nantahala area (where I live) is typically delightful - warm days, chilly nights, most of the leaf peepers are gone, bugs are gone (not they're a big deal at other times) - in short, its an underrated month.

[kushtakaa]

Good point about the lonliness factor. By heading south from HF, we will be moving along with some of the regular SOBO's. By doing the flip HF/North then HF/South...we will see many of the faster NOBO's in the first part as well...

[kushtakaa]

I'm not positive about the Shenandoah end of things, but November in the Smokies and Nantahala area (where I live) is typically delightful - warm days, chilly nights, most of the leaf peepers are gone, bugs are gone (not they're a big deal at other times) - in short, its an underrated month.

True...I'm looking forward to hitting that part of the trail close to leaf-change. When does that happen around the Smokies?

[full conditions]

True...I'm looking forward to hitting that part of the trail close to leaf-change. When does that happen around the Smokies?

Elevation and Aspect matter - a general rule of thumb is that north facing slopes and higher elevations tend to see earlier color change than south facing slopes and lower elevations. At high elevations (>5,000ft) in a "normal" year, peak foliage occurs last week of September thru the first week of October. Down in the river valleys (< 2,000) peak is often two weeks later - so, the second and third weeks of October - sometimes even into early November. In some years I've seen red maples start turning in early september and oaks holding on to their golds and russets well into november. Temps and rainfall has a pretty big impact - drought years see early color changes and early hard freezes tend to trigger early color years. Lastly, late autumn storms can bring leaves down in a hurry. But, no matter what, I've never experienced a disappointing autumn in the Smokies.

[kushtakaa]

Thanks for the info, FC...barring injury, etc., we should hit that area within a week or so of peak! :-)

[traveller14]

Congrats, Treehugger, on your clear MRI! We won't be at the event in Harper's Ferry, but will be starting the following weekend, heading north. Our aging bodies will determine if we can ever catch up to all of you HF Flip-Floppers...but hopefully we will cross paths. Good Luck!
Joani and Mark (Digital Traveller)

[brancher]

I took a quick count and it looks like there are about 17 of us headed NOBO from HF about 5/2 and 3 maybes. This is going to be the start of something great!

Anybody have an updated number?

[squeezebox]

PM me and I'll post a count, I'll include trail names if you want. and SS#s.

[Humminbard]

Wondering how y'all are feeling about physical readiness. Yesterday I slogged through a mere 10 miles of snow and slush up in SNP, carrying probably less than 10 pounds. This morning I was all stove up and achy. Uh-oh.

[kibs]

2018 seems to be a good year to start. I'm not into crowds either and will be planning a start at Harpers Ferry

[Carbo]

Wondering how y'all are feeling about physical readiness. Yesterday I slogged through a mere 10 miles of snow and slush up in SNP, carrying probably less than 10 pounds. This morning I was all stove up and achy. Uh-oh.

I'm physically ready to spend an hour on a treadmill in a gym. Carrying a pack up and down hills most of the day will be a challenge in the beginning, but slow & easy to start is the key. This winter has been difficult keep in hiking trim. Starting from HF, I guess I'll be the one at the end of the line heading north.

[Treehugger]

Funny you ask about physical readiness. This sounds bad but it's ultimately a good thing. After getting a diagnostic ultrasound on my hip, the doctor (my brother) found what did not show up on the MRI; a small tear in one of glute tendons and basically not enough cartilage in my hip joint. I don't know if yall know what PRP is but I got two injections of it, one in my hip joint and one in the torn tendon. It hurts pretty good now but after a few days of gimping around I will start to feel better. The tendon will heal given time and some PT, then I can hike. I will be a bit slower and and probably carry even less weight but at least I can go. I am very discouraged at this setback for the time being but I need to keep focused on getting better so I can get my bad self out there! Good thing I am starting before most of you guys or yall would pass me like I was sitting still!!

[Humminbard]

Funny you ask about physical readiness. This sounds bad but it's ultimately a good thing. After getting a diagnostic ultrasound on my hip, the doctor (my brother) found what did not show up on the MRI; a small tear in one of glute tendons and basically not enough cartilage in my hip joint. I don't know if yall know what PRP is but I got two injections of it, one in my hip joint and one in the torn tendon. It hurts pretty good now but after a few days of gimping around I will start to feel better. The tendon will heal given time and some PT, then I can hike. I will be a bit slower and and probably carry even less weight but at least I can go. I am very discouraged at this setback for the time being but I need to keep focused on getting better so I can get my bad self out there! Good thing I am starting before most of you guys or yall would pass me like I was sitting still!!

Treehugger, don't be discouraged. I have a feeling that you, even walking wounded (and I, with leg muscles apparently as strong as overcooked linguini) will have plenty of company. I'm going to follow Carbo's lead, and maybe actually follow Carbo, in the slow and steady brigade.

[Treehugger]

Treehugger, don't be discouraged. I have a feeling that you, even walking wounded (and I, with leg muscles apparently as strong as overcooked linguini) will have plenty of company. I'm going to follow Carbo's lead, and maybe actually follow Carbo, in the slow and steady brigade.

High five sister!

[brancher]

Wondering how y'all are feeling about physical readiness. Yesterday I slogged through a mere 10 miles of snow and slush up in SNP, carrying probably less than 10 pounds. This morning I was all stove up and achy. Uh-oh.

I'm doing about 5-6 mis a day with a light pack, flat ground. Pales when compared to backpacking, but at least it keeps the legs tuned a little. Also I was in Springer for the ATKO this past weekend and did some shakedown stuff for equipment, etc. I may do a 3-4 day walk in the next few weeks....