Not just an issue at Springer
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/show...T-concerns-Wow
Start date permits will lead to overall quotas - bad idea and a lazy fix. Sharing data and ideas so people can make better informed decisions is different and good.
Problem is NOT the number of people, number of people is CAUSE of problems.
Identify ACTUAL problems -- specific issues-- and adress them. Do so in a way that will yield SIGNIFICANT results like Lone Wolf's approach would.
Recognize that more people on the AT can be good for the environment. Examples of people whose environmental ethic was magnified by the Trail abound. Some are making enormouse contributions, with a few are even preserving thousands of acres near the AT. We should look to make the AT even more accessible to ALL doing so will make for a better trail and a better country.
Recognize that the AT has many dimensions and characteristics. Those of one stretch does not define it. It is not at all comparable to the JMT.
Make Georgia a high priority. It matters even for those of us who have zero desire to head there again. The ATC has something like a $7 million dollar budget. How much is being applied to making things better in Georgia?
Listen to Lone Wolf.
I don't know what the solution is, but it is obvious the current status of the trail is overcrowded.
Just off the top of my head solution:
Have the trail clubs issue thru-hike permits. I know, I know...
Have the trail clubs offer days of trail clean-up or some form of service to have a thru-hike permit. You must become a club member, work, then receive a permit. I don't think this is a permanent solution, but a temporary solution until....
How would this be enforced?
permits will not work
I think the ATC would go a long way towards promoting southbound thruhikes if there were more of a monument at Springer than just the metal plaque. People hike north to katadyn so they can take their picture standing in front of that sign. If there were a similar sign on Springer it might equate the two termini in people's minds...right now, Springer is thought of as the start and that sign atop katadyn is thought of as the end.
My fear if some type of permit or limited system were initiated, say starting in 2016, there would be a rush of people hiking in 2015.Originally Posted by Lone Wolf
Dumb idea... you might not be aware of this but there are many people who thru-hike who live NOWHERE near the trail. so now with your idea they have to join some trail club, pay dues, and then some how come out to do there "work" before then know if they get to thru-hike??? give me a break ??
That's exactly right. The extraordinarily linear nature of the AT "park" with its' virtually infinite access opportunities makes the kind of permit system most of us are used to seeing in national parks, unworkable. When serious regulation comes to Chattahoochee National Forest, it will come in the guise of highly regulated camping opportunities with quotas and with offenders being frog marched out by law enforcement rangers. I'll say this one more time. We (the trail community) can do a lot to mitigate these problems before they lead to draconian and codified solutions. Getting the word out to prospective thru hikers that the scale of the problem is such that they should seriously consider an alternate itinerary and/ or route or risk becoming part of an increasingly terrible situation.
Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.
Exactly. If they live nowhere near the trail they make arrangements to join, work just like they do to hike. The problem is enforcement.
Also, I'm not suggesting this is a permanent solution, but something.
Exactly. If they live nowhere near the trail they make arrangements to join, work just like they do to hike. The problem is enforcement.
Also, I'm not suggesting this is not a permanent solution, but something.
What is your solution, friend?
If we are to spend time getting the word out to prospective thru hikers about the 'scale of the problem' it could be used to inform of some system to stop over crowding. Again, I'm not suggesting a permit system is a permanate solution, but it's a start.
The AT clubs and ATC are the best solution to these problems.
I am sure where most people buy gear, forums and other outlets started informing the hiker community of permits or whatever the word will get around.
Ok, I see what your saying, so it just cost someone living nowhere near the trail more to "maybe, if they work hard enough" thru-hike, that seems fair, and how many days will they have to stay and work ??? and what if im a hard worker and your a lazy POS, do we still do the same amount of days work ?? do I get to leave in 2 days and you after 10 ?? its a dumb idea if you break it down to ANY kind of level. who enforces it at the "club " level ??? do you spread out the permits along all the trail clubs ?? or just the ones you like. ..... the only way a permit system would work is it one organization was in charge, and it would be first come first serve (sign up, and picking a start date, paying fee)
to a SOBO, that simple metal plaque means a lot. it ain't about signs anyway
What is your solution?
Okay, how about a lottery drawing for x amount of thru hikers per year. Again, enforcement is the problem... What is your solution, I missed it.
If you want the AT to exist in some resemblance of its present form 50 years from now, quotas and control will be inevitable. That takes NFS employees patrolling and writing citations to enforce. Which takes money.
No, the AT is not the JMT. But its the best we have in the eastern US, and its worth protecting so that is there for future generations. If that means everyone cant have unfettered, unlimited access, then so be it IMO.
$7 million dollars
Why not purchase land?
Ummmm... you do realize that we already own the land, right?
Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.
I'm just glad I'm thru-hiking in 2015 before the knee-jerkers come along and mess things up. Years from now, I'll come back here and rant about the "good old days", and tag the current (then) irresponsible class of AT ruffians as the source of all the problems.
It sounds like some of the infrastructure that has allowed so many to hike is cracking under the strain. I just want to enjoy my hike and be a respectful hiker (to nature, other hikers, locals, etc.), not spend all my time on damage control from the previous class (not all of them, certainly). The implication that all AT thu-hikers conduct themselves irresponsibly is insulting. Don't group me with them self-centered SOB's.
This falls into the famous 10% zone, in that 10% of the people are responsible for 90% of the problems. The same goes with crime, littering, welfare, etc. Remove that 10%, and the rest of the world would be in paradise.
AKA "DANGER" AT Thru-Hiker Class of 2015
Best line in this whole thread. Kind of like, "Hiking the AT is 90% mental and the other half is physical." Another Yogi-ism.No one hikes the AT anymore...it's too crowded!
Yogi Berra, AT hiker
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