Baxter State Park AT concerns - Wow

[atraildreamer]

Interesting article, but this particular statement sound like pure speculation. When numbers are such a low percentage of the total (the forders), the variations can be huge, just due to the random things. Drawing conclusions from big changes in small numbers is not proper mathematically, sorry. The low-water thing might sway the number slightly.

I'm not saying it cannot be somewhat true but I doubt that the average attitude of hikers along this section of the trail would change dramatically from 2014 to 2015. Why would it? The perception that this would be true is, IMHO, just another manifestation of the ridiculous fixation of SJ's little tiff with BSP.

I sure didn't notice any difference among the last three years on the trail (I did 900 miles in 2013, 500 in 2014 and the rest roughly 800 in 2015). Same overall mix of people. Same general amount of weed smoking and boozing (burp!). Peace!

I think Dave is more concerned about someone attempting to ford and drowning. The low-water probably had a lot to with it, but risking your life when a free ride is available seems kind of dumb to me.

[rickb]

Thanks for posting. Several of David's assertions about hiker attitudes and behavior are certainly discouraging. I just don't understand why anyone would become belligerent about being asked to sign a waiver before getting in the boat.

The good news is that everyone who refused to sign the form did sign the form.

The other good news always that everyone who was belligerent was kept calm by the ferryman.

[Coffee]

I'm not saying the information is invalid but I'm always wondering were all the a**holes I keep reading about actually are since I've never really had a bad encounter with long distance hikers on many different hikes on many different trails over the past few years. Maybe I've been lucky.

[Lone Wolf]

stay in one spot along the trail for a month. you'll see....

[tdoczi]

I'm not saying the information is invalid but I'm always wondering were all the a**holes I keep reading about actually are since I've never really had a bad encounter with long distance hikers on many different hikes on many different trails over the past few years. Maybe I've been lucky.

its about catching them at the right time, namely when there are rules to follow that they havent had to follow all along and therefore many of them conclude they dont have to follow them now. outwardly under day in and day out circumstances they mostly seem like fine people, but watch them when they encounter a specific rule in a specific place that doesnt work for what they want to do. the ferryman i am sure sees this unendingly, just as the AMC hut croos and the like do. you dont have to go hiking to see it, AMC bashing is a favorite past time on this board.

[rickb]

its about catching them at the right time, namely when there are rules to follow that they havent had to follow all along and therefore many of them conclude they dont have to follow them now. outwardly under day in and day out circumstances they mostly seem like fine people, but watch them when they encounter a specific rule in a specific place that doesnt work for what they want to do. the ferryman i am sure sees this unendingly, just as the AMC hut croos and the like do. you dont have to go hiking to see it, AMC bashing is a favorite past time on this board.

Some hikers failed to show the proper respect for the ferryman and bristled at signing a release, but did so. The ferryman judged them to be ******** (probably were) but reported that then he kept them calm.

Some had smoked pot.

Sounds like what workers serving the public everyday have to endure. My theory is that everyone should wait on tables before deciding on class of people is more spoiled, rotten or otherwise not up to standard.

Too much drama.

[TJ aka Teej]

Dave's report to the MATC was widely shared back when it came out, but it certainly needs more sharing and more attention.
It went almost without notice that 2015 was the 30th anniversary of Alice's drowning.
Please, do share Dave's report, in 2016 FB groups, in emails to dreamers, in messages to hikers hitting Maine, everywhere and every chance you get.

[Datto]

There aren't 1000+ northbound AT thru-hikers arriving at the ford in Maine. That's ridiculous. Laughable.

What there happens to be are a bunch of guys calling themselves Northbounders because they've hiked 50 miles north and think there's a benefit of being called a thru-hiker. It sounds good so that's what they are, right?

I ran into tons of these people on my AT thru-hike and on other AT hikes. They'd skip around, hike maybe 20 miles, get back into a car as a group, hear about the Aquablaze and drive up to do that, hear about a party in Philadelphia so they'd drive up to PA, party up there for a while, get back into the car and eventually as the summer was over, drive up to Maine, arrive at Baxter and call their hike complete and fill out the forms to get whatever badge and noteriety they think they are due. At Harper's Ferry they'd be in the ATC building and would claim to be an AT thru-hiker. No one every questioned them so in their own minds they were AT thru-hikers. Look, they got their picture taken in Baxter so they're AT thru-hikers, right? That's how statistics get so skewed as to be not believable. The people collecting the stats aren't serious about accuracy.

These people are very likely just the usual miscreant crowd that is around everywhere in society. They're not AT northbound thru-hikers. They're low-life miscreants who just happened to be on the Appalachian Trail for a while. Tons of these people on the AT. They're not AT thru-hikers.

This is the part where Bissell and others are missing the target so they're just shotgunning all the blame at AT hikers, particularly AT thru-hikers, simply because the ATC is a weak organization and won't call Bissell's bluff and tell him he's full of it. The ATC just kowtows to Bissell and Bissell knows that. Heck, Bissell has admitedly said he calls everyone coming into Baxter at a certain point an AT thru-hiker (the 100 mile wilderness northern point as I remember) which is ridiculous. A good portion of these miscreants are just the usual lowlifes from Providence or Boston or Bangor or Manchester who decide to go party for a while and drive up to Maine to start the party.

This is the same as a shopping mall manager using door swings to determine how many real customers he has in the mall. Completely bogus because it includes all the seniors who don't have anything else to do and don't intend to buy anything, all the mall walkers who don't intend to buy anything, all the teenagers who don't have any money but spend all day going in and out of the mall, all the shoplifters who certainly aren't there to buy anything, all the husband-types who are just sitting around waiting to say, "Oh yeah, those shoes look good on you, what a bargain" when their wife shows up. You can't just use door-swings to determine who's-who (well, assuming you actually want to be accurate and don't want to just blame all your woes on AT thru-hikers because AT thru-hikers are a disorganized, easy, weak target).


Datto

[tdoczi]

Some hikers failed to show the proper respect for the ferryman and bristled at signing a release, but did so. The ferryman judged them to be ******** (probably were) but reported that then he kept them calm.

Some had smoked pot.

Sounds like what workers serving the public everyday have to endure. My theory is that everyone should wait on tables before deciding on class of people is more spoiled, rotten or otherwise not up to standard.

Too much drama.

yes, theyre are bad folks everywhere. that conclusion glosses over the ferryman's very expert opinion that its getting worse, and a community that used to be better than society at large is now, at best, no better.

[rickb]

yes, theyre are bad folks everywhere. that conclusion glosses over the ferryman's very expert opinion that its getting worse, and a community that used to be better than society at large is now, at best, no better.

I guarantee you there was more pot smoking in the late 70's and early 80's than now-- whether on a subway platform, the ballpark, or even the Trail.

Though I do hear rumors that the younger generation is catchin up.

[tdoczi]

I guarantee you there was more pot smoking in the late 70's and early 80's than now-- whether on a subway platform, the ballpark, or even the Trail.

Though I do hear rumors that the younger generation is catchin up.

and i doubt thats really the ferryman's real issue.

[saltysack]

Smoking bud and conflict don't usually go hand in hand.....unless there's food involved!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Coffee]

I've seen plenty of smoking and drinking on trail (which seems counterproductive on a demanding athletic endeavor) but never any major manifestations of these types of problems. I can see how drugs can contribute to tense situations, but hassling a guy providing a FREE ferry over a river? Some people obviously have issues.

[Trainguy]

As the guy who at one time used to be the guy who released water from the upstream dam, all I can tell you is if I didn't know when water was going to be released 100% of the time then those hikers taking the chance of fording the Kennebec are truly risking their lives and the lives of those who have to go fish them out.

[BirdBrain]

Now I await the posts that infer that somehow the ferryman and "silly rules" are somehow the problem.

Oops... Forgot about everyone does it and it is Bissell's fault and you can't prove I am a thru.

As far as the pot goes, I agree with saltysack and Coffee... and I would not be surprised if the ferryman does too.

In the end, he is a good guy providing a good service and does not deserve any crap.

I will never grasp the kneejerk reaction that complicates a simple issue. Some are acting like jerks to a person that does not deserve it. No comfort should be offered to such pigs. I don't care who it is, how many there are, or what they look like. Writing essays that argue nuance and irrelevant people provides comfort to the belligerent and reveals that you have as much an issue as the those that give this man a hard time.

"The lady doth protest too much, methinks."

[Tuckahoe]

BB give it a rest. The constant harping without adding anything to the discussion is just getting old.

[BirdBrain]

BB give it a rest. The constant harping without adding anything to the discussion is just getting old.

The constant distraction from reality is getting old. The constant defensive puffing up is getting old. When a rock is tossed into a pack of dogs, it is easy to tell who was hit. It pisses me off that people's first reaction is to defend the problem childs.

Before I crossed the Kennebec, I asked about etiquette and schedule. Should I tip the man? What time should I arrive?

Dave's report paints a sad picture. It is even more sad when responses are not like, "not me" or "I will keep that in mind" or "I had not thought about his perspective". Instead we get the lame excuses I listed. I don't give a rat's ass if that offends anyone.

I am adding something. Don't act like a jerk when you get to the Kennebec. That is better than "it is Bissell's fault" or "everyone does it" or the "rules are silly" or "those aren't thru's".

I don't care if I am the only one saying it.

Thank you Dave for your report. I will do what I can to change behavior.

When I see a 50 year old man yelling at a 16 year old girl at McDonald's because his hamburger has too much salt, I butt in and confront the jerk. But that is just me. Bringing anything else to the table from Dave's report is no better than yelling at the girl. What the hell does Bissell have to do with the Kennebec. Those bringing up crap like that are off the edge of the earth insane.

Putting on ignore. God people are idiots.

[Lone Wolf]

i just ford. avoid all the drama

[squeezebox]

Sounds like you won't get drama from the ferryman. Only from the bad behaved hikers.
I'm with bird brain on this one.

If you ford you are obviously risking your life. Good luck!!

[Datto]

There's a bad and growing part of society that is traipsing up and down the AT causing loads of problems. If you call those people AT thru-hikers because it's easy, you're ignorant, you're lazy and can't think for yourself, then I'm likely to give you an earfull.


Datto