Baxter State Park AT concerns - Wow

[Slo-go'en]

I got the numbers a little mixed up. The ATC numbers only show 512 completed or 20% which sounds more realistic. There seems to be a very large discrepancy between the ATC number and the ferry numbers. Maybe the ATC numbers are those who reported completing the thru hike and 400 have yet to do so?

Although I don't spend a lot of time in Gorham, I go there pretty often and didn't see unusually large numbers of hikers in town this summer or fall so I was pretty surprised by the tally in Maine.

[Sly]

If the numbers are right, it shows many that skip to Maine aren't applying for 2000-miler designation, therefore, not cheating. Still, it's appears to be AT hikers not following the regulations in BSP that's the problem. Perhaps, thru-hikers follow the regulations more closely, rather than the partying section-hikers.

[Lone Wolf]

If the numbers are right, it shows many that skip to Maine aren't applying for 2000-miler designation, therefore, not cheating. .

there is no cheating. it's not a test. it's like gettin' an online certificate for anything. who cares

[Dogwood]

there is no cheating. it's not a test. it's like gettin' an online certificate for anything. who cares

So, are you saying you'd be willing to accept a driver position with the aye yeah I did a thru-hike AT Yellow Blaze taxicab confession company?

[Lone Wolf]

So, are you saying you'd be willing to accept a driver position with the aye yeah I did a thru-hike AT Yellow Blaze taxicab confession company?

yes. i have experience yellow blazing hikers north out of damascus.

[Dogwood]

Cleanish driving record, actual abundant AT hiking experience, local knowledge of the roads and AT access pts, and a somewhat sulky personality is what it would take. In other words, you'd be perfect LW, accept for patiently having to listen to all the BS from hikers while controlling an urge to reach in the back seat and strangle some of the surly little SOBs.

Yes, I remember you well coming into the hostel in Damascus chasing out a few of the obviously stoned and drunk dopers and someone who wasn't even a hiker(prolly that hang arounder pack snatcher SOB).

[atraildreamer]

Wow, did you check out the numbers Atraildreamer posted?

The Kennebec Ferry took 1902 people and 42 dogs across the river! The number of dogs surprised me, I bet most of those were with section hikers, of which were about half the traffic.

2500 (estimated) left Springer, 945 crossed the Kennebec, 901 finished at Baxter. That's almost a 40% completion rate. Sounds like there was a lot of yellow blazing going on. It also sounds like a lot of hikers these days require "service dogs".

The only numbers in the Thru-Hiker breakdown that I would trust are the ferry figures that Dave Corrigan provided, and really, only the number of hikers (and dogs!) that he ferried have any validity. He does have a fiduciary reason to keep accurate records. As he stated in his email:

..."You should also realize that many of the people who self report as 'thru hiker' have actually done a lot of yellow blazing. [I base this statement on their own admission and the info gathered from their friends when we talk]."...

Even the ATC numbers have an element of doubt associated with them. Only the Harper's Ferry figures are verifiable. The other figures are based on the statements of the hikers. You can make any claim that you want about your hiking status. How can it be proved or disproved?

Perhaps the only way to get a true count of thru-hikers would be the instituting of a "passport" system like they do in Europe for the Camino (?) Trail. Get your passport stamped at various stops along the AT. It would make a nice memento of your hike and proof of your claim to be a Thru-Hiker.

[rhjanes]

Perhaps the only way to get a true count of thru-hikers would be the instituting of a "passport" system like they do in Europe for the Camino (?) Trail. Get your passport stamped at various stops along the AT. It would make a nice memento of your hike and proof of your claim to be a Thru-Hiker.

no it wouldn't. if people want to "claim" thru hiker status, they will find a way. the places to "stamp the passport" will 99.9 percent be in a town, with a road.......
Only by having something like the ridge runners stamp it.....and even then....I can hear it now..... "I only got 20 of the 50.........Because I NIGHT HIKED and the ridge runner wasn't there, the hostel person was asleep, the dog ate that page, there was a flood...An earthquake......it WASN"T MY FAULT!!!!!" (<<<Blues Brothers)

[Alligator]

The ferry numbers are real time counts while ATC numbers are reported completions. There will be delays for the ATC numbers and people who do not apply for the 2000 miler certificate.

If you looked at past years numbers comparing the two you might get a more stable estimate of any difference in thruhiker numbers. Could be hard to pin a cause on any potential difference as there are a couple possible reasons it might exist.

[Slo-go'en]

Perhaps the only way to get a true count of thru-hikers would be the instituting of a "passport" system like they do in Europe for the Camino (?) Trail. Get your passport stamped at various stops along the AT. It would make a nice memento of your hike and proof of your claim to be a Thru-Hiker.

Or you could have them stamped at all the hiker feeds. Need time and date too.

I think it would be fun and educational to set up game cameras along the trail to track the hikers. Say one at each state line crossing. Use Facebook's facial recognition software to sort them all out. This would catch all the "stealth" hikers who never sign in anywhere (like me). The only problem might be keeping them hidden well enough to prevent vandalism. You'd catch a lot of game photos too.

Another way to cut down on yellow blazers claiming 2000 miler status would be to require them to summit a photo with a time/date stamp of themselves in front of every shelter along the trail, or at least at the sign if it's a ways off the trail.

I know on the Long Trail there are counters in various places (mostly side trails) activated by pressure sensors under rocks positioned so you have to step on them. That way they can keep track of trail usage.

[Coffee]

It only really matters if you care about others falsely claiming a thru hike. I personally don't care. When I thru hike the AT in a couple of years, I don't think that I care enough to be too annoyed if a yellow blazer mysteriously shows up in the next town after being passed and loudly talks about being a "thru hiker". It doesn't diminish the accomplishments of a thru hiker since the accomplishment is basically an internal one, not something validated by external recognition. For me. Some might put a higher value on that external recognition and then I can see how they would be pissed at imposters.

[imscotty]

Perhaps the only way to get a true count of thru-hikers would be the instituting of a "passport" system like they do in Europe for the Camino (?) Trail. Get your passport stamped at various stops along the AT. It would make a nice memento of your hike and proof of your claim to be a Thru-Hiker.

I understand there is an increasing amount of 'Yellow Blazing' going on on the Camino de Santiago too. As that trail system as increased in popularity it attracting an increasing number of partiers who take advantage of the inexpensive 'albergues' and other amenities intended for pilgrims. Hmm, sounds familiar.

[atraildreamer]

OK, I have a solution! Every AT hiker has a gps chip implanted in them. The chip is synched with their credit/debit card. Their location is known at all times and any fees along the AT are automatically deducted! Completion of a thru-hike is easily verified, revenues are collected and everyone is happy , except the hiker!

[Almost There]

Don't care who really did it all, and who didn't. All I care about is the douche canoes that ruin it for those of us willing to follow the rules. I'm halfway done with trail right now, and it will take me another 8-10 years to finish (having small children has put a crimp in my hiking). I may apply for recognition, haven't decided. If I ever thru the AT it will be SOBO or a Flip-Flop. More than likely I'll end up doing a thru of the PCT (less people, still a sense of community, but less time to mess around if you want to make it to Canada before the snow). Too many hiker feeds/trail magic on the AT these days brings out the moochers, etc. Trail Days reflects this, much different from how it used to be. As long as tons of free stuff is being given out the word will go out, and they will come.

[MuddyWaters]

I dont know what the answer is.
But I think Laurie P. wrote that the ATC is working on a self-registration thingy so hikers next year can see who is starting when, to avoid the crowds if they want.


I have a suspicion it will either be limited effectiveness thru lack of awareness, or even negative. Lots of these aspiring thrus want company and crowds.

Theres no party without a crowd.

[Lauriep]

Muddy Waters,

Thank you so much! You have just given a gift to ATC. You know there's nothing more motivating then being told on WhiteBlaze.net that you're not likely to succeed ;-)

Laurie P.

[Lauriep]

As Muddy Waters points out, not everyone will want to register for a voluntary system when there are not negative consequences (other than knowing you will not be avoiding crowds for yourself and may be adding to overcrowding, which isn't a negative for some).

So, we don't have sticks, i.e.. a required permit that is enforced. And, at least at the moment, we don't to have a desire to use sticks. (And for the record, ATC has no law enforcement authority, but we do work closely with land-managing agencies who do).

Does anyone have ideas about what incentives (carrots) we can provide to prospective thru-hikers to make them want to register? (I know some ideas have already been listed here and/or on other threads, but it would be helpful to see them all in one place).

It would be useful to hear relatively easy and inexpensive things that could be done this year, as well as things that we couldn't feasibly implement this year, but might be able to in 2016.

If there are any 2015 thru-hikers responding, please indicate that (even if you've already identified yourself elsewhere on this or other threads).

Laurie P.
ATC

[Lone Wolf]

maybe offer incentives for folks leaving their dogs at home

[Old Hillwalker]

How about requiring potential thru hiker registration with ATC as a requirement to receive a nice fancy "AT Completed, 2000 miler" patch and certificate upon completion of the Thru. Along with the registration would be a requirement that one has read and understands the appropriate trail behavior and regulations. Some will ignore what they agreed to, but I think that many will remember the agreement.

If the Patch and certificate is properly advertised and promoted they would likely become a "have to have" memento. Hopefully these would not require a fee. Yes, there will be a cost to the Conservancy, but if that somehow could be absorbed it would be more likely to succeeed.

[Coffee]

Does anyone have ideas about what incentives (carrots) we can provide to prospective thru-hikers to make them want to register?

ATC members who are making a AT thru hike attempt could be offered a package that includes inducements like the suggestion for a more elaborate "AT Passport" similar to what is used on the Camino, as well as a more fancy completion memento (patch, medal, etc). Another carrot would be for the ATC to coordinate with GSMNP and provide registered thru hikers with documentation that will allow a bypass of the thru hiker permit process. Also, ATC could coordinate with BSP to offer registered thru hikers preferential treatment at the Birches campsite which will ease the process of hiking to the northern terminus. Roll the $10 Birches fee and the $20 GSMNP fee into an overall package that costs around $50-$60. Offer this in conjunction with ATC membership for new members in a $100 "thru hiker" package. I think that it would be very popular.