ultra light - stupid light

[squeezebox]

So where's the line where someone crosses from ultra light to stupid light?
Please address seasonal issues.

[juma]

So where's the line where someone crosses from ultra light to stupid light?
Please address seasonal issues.

its right at the "no shelter" line.

[Tuckahoe]

That line is when one's knowledge and skill does not match the gear chosen.

[1azarus]

That stupid light line can be crossed by a hiker with any weight pack. A "buddy "of mine has hiked almost the whole AT with a 40 to 50 pound pack...and no emergency shelter!

[Coffee]

So where's the line where someone crosses from ultra light to stupid light?
Please address seasonal issues.

Anytime where you have to rely on the kindness of strangers or just plain good luck under the conditions possible for a trip.

[Tipi Walter]

So where's the line where someone crosses from ultra light to stupid light?
Please address seasonal issues.

In my experience UL becomes stupid light during the winter months when UL backpackers refuse to carry the proper clothing, footwear, and sleeping systems for the temps and snow they encounter. I see it all the time. It's one reason you don't see as many people out in the winter months as you do in the warmer months.

Another stupid light choice are the AT backpackers relying solely on the AT rat-box shelters for their homes while on the trail. And they often get emotional and territorial over these car-port shelters, thinking them to be mandatory to the outdoor experience and thereby they develop a sense of entitlement to their use. Lunacy.

I say---Be men and carry your own shelters and dump the shelter system as you would a syphilis-drenched hot potato. Amen.

[MuddyWaters]

As popularized by Skurka, he was stupid, when he chose the wrong gear for conditions, by focusing only on the weight. Being light makes trips more enjoyable. Bringing the wrong gear doesnt, regardless of weight. Skurka had thought that ever decreasing baseweight was the road to hiking nirvana, discovered in some situations it wasnt, and blogged about it popularizing the term "stupid light" as it applied to himself. It had to do with efficiency, as well as safety and comfort.



http://andrewskurka.com/2012/stupid-...ght-or-better/


Not carrying what I needed = “stupid light”


It really had nothinng to do with not bringing some form of essentail gear. That is beyond stupid. It mostly had to do with bringing less appropriate gear for the conditions by focusing too much on weight.

If you hike in a blizzard, having a 4 lb 3 season tent instead of an 8 lb 4 season mountaineering tent is stupid light. Not having a tent at all is suicide

So possibly is camping in 33F and rain weather with a down bag instead of synthetic.

Hiking in shorts and receiving bug bites and sunburn when long pants would have been better is another example.

It all depends. Sans shelter and raingear may be perfectly OK in the desert. It is not in the mountains typically.

Ignorant anti-lightweight backpackers jumped on the term and attempt to use it to bash others.

You could make the case that in some circumstances, most hikers are not carrying what they need. This is why they have to bail to town when cold snaps come, or to dry out after a week of rain. This is not stupid if it is the plan however, which for most, it is.

For me, bringing only a CCF pad to sleep on to save a couple oz would be stupid light. It has no effect on safety. But from past experience, its miserable sleeping on hard ground. It ruins the experience. Been there, done that. Same with bug netting, not worth it to me. An insect free sleeping environment is worth it from comfort standpoint.

[Another Kevin]

The definition of "stupid light" means that you don't have a good answer to any of these questions:

"Can I find my way?" Even if you wind up straying from the established trail!
"Can I keep from getting sunburnt/windburnt/snowblind?" Especially if you're of Northern European extraction!
"Can I stay warm? Can I stay dry?" Even if the weather is worse than forecast?
"Can I find my way if I run out of daylight while on the move?"
"Can I patch things up if I have a minor injury?"
"Can I make fire?"
"Can I fix routine problems with my clothing and gear?"
"Will I have enough to eat, even if delayed?"
"Will I have enough safe water to drink, even if delayed?"
"Will I have a place to sleep if I get stuck an extra night?" Even if you don't make it to a shelter?
"Can I avoid falls?" Walking stick, poles, microspikes, gloves for gripping the rock, full ice gear, whatever it takes in your conditions.
"Can I avoid making the trail a hazard for those who come behind me?" Nobody wants to find poo, so comply with Deuteronomy 23:13. Snowshoers and skiers hate tripping over other people's postholes, and hate even more finding that the postholers have compacted the trail into a skating rink, so bring snowshoes if the snow is going to be more than boot-deep.

The answer to any of these questions cannot be "That's not going to happen!" and really ought to be something you've field-tested. Have you ever tried out your bivouac setup in the back yard? Intentionally taken a walk around your city park in the worst of weather, to test your clothing? I make it a point to walk to the office every workday - in every season and whatever the weather. I've learnt a few things doing that.

[Sugarfoot]

I had to look up your reference, Another Kevin.

New American Standard Bible
and you shall have a spade among your tools, and it shall be when you sit down outside, you shall dig with it and shall turn to cover up your excrement.

King James Bible
And thou shalt have a paddle upon thy weapon; and it shall be, when thou wilt ease thyself abroad, thou shalt dig therewith, and shalt turn back and cover that which cometh from thee:

Good advice. It doesn't say anything about kicking a hole with the heel of your sandal. Poo problems apparently go way back.

[rocketsocks]

Stopping at a outfitters on the way to a hike, purchasing a headlamp, and not testing it before dark that evening only to find out it doesn't work and will need to be returned on the way home...'Stupid light'

[Malto]

That line is when one's knowledge and skill does not match the gear chosen.

This is the best option so far. I would agree with Muddywaters on the down bag and 35 and rainy. I was on the wonderland trail in October in exactly those conditions with three other hikers all carrying down bags. None of us had any issues at all. But all four of us had been hiking for years with thousands of miles in all sorts of conditions. So in our case, the knowledge and skill matched the gear perfectly.

i don't view stupid light as a single catastrophic event though I guess in the most extreme condition it could be. Most folks that have been playing in UL for years end up adding a bit of weight back in at the end of the journey. the difference between the lowest and final weight is the stupid light stuff. In my case it would have been adding a bug net to my three season shelter system, swapping out the razor blade for a mini Swiss Army knife etc. and going back to a jar for peanut put instead of a refillable tube. These swapped out items were stupid light

[Connie]

I think I coined the term: hike smart, when I made a remark in my website to contrast hike stupid or hike smart.

I like the term "Hike Smart".

In Canada, there is an entire "Hike Smart" website.

I think Hike Stupid caught on, referring to "going too far" with SUL.

Responsible SUL websites "define" that line, between lightweight and stupid lightweight. I think they do a good job of it.

No one wants to be a casualty.

[Another Kevin]

It had nothinng to do with not bringing some form of essentail gear. That is beyond stupid. It had to do with bringing less appropriate gear for the conditions by focusing too much on weight.

If you hike in a blizzard, having a 4 lb 3 season tent instead of an 8 lb 4 season mountaineering tent is stupid light. Not having a tent at all is suicide

So possibly is camping in 33F and rain weather with a down bag instead of synthetic.

Hiking in shorts and receiving bug bites and sunburn when long pants would have been better is another example.

Hmm... interesting point. In my post, which crossed with yours, I was mostly focusing on "beyond stupid," because I see so much out on the trail that's beyond stupid.

Your post is more talking about a range where the triangle of skills, equipment and comfort allow for tradeoffs.

I've never had my (1.6-pound, not 4-pound!) three-season tent in a blizzard, fortunately. But I think the most likely outcome would merely be a night or two of miserable sleep and a day or two holed up, because of the need to keep shoveling snow to unload the tent and maintain a windbreak. Doable, but damnably uncomfortable, so I guess I'd put that at "stupid" level. For someone who doesn't know how to manage a tent in winter, it's more at "deadly" level.

I've hiked - about six weeks ago - a four-night trip with nighttime frost and daytime temps in the 30's, and it rained the whole time. I kept my down dry, even through a fall in a river and a collapse of a bog bridge that dropped me into thigh-deep mud. If it were a week or longer and I didn't have access to a laundry in town, wetting of down would have started to become a problem, because there was a distinct lack of opportunities to get things aired out properly. I wouldn't necessarily recommend down in that kind of weather for a novice, but I carry dead geese with me all year round.

I depend on sunscreen and DEET at some times of year. Sunburn and bug bites are no fun, but neither is heat prostration. In any case, I always bring something with long sleeves and long pants. The legs of regular nylon zip-off hiking pants aren't all that heavy.

I'd add to your list things like not bringing ice creepers for that 33° rain. It doesn't take much to turn that into 31° freezing rain! Or depending on an inflatable sleeping pad in cold weather. (I'm of the belief that you need two pads in winter, and one has to be foam.)

[Connie]

Tipi Walter, amen.

I think shelters are not an authentic part of the "american experience" of backpacking. Great, in Europe, where they do it so well. Here, no. Our shelters are the worst.

[Connie]

The "10 essentials" were always the "10 essentials - the systems approach".

I helped formulate the list. No, it isn't that long ago that "the ten essentials" were formulated.

It was never 10 items of gear, you carry. It was never 10 items of gear, you carry - you do not know how to use.

My website addresses all these points, in over 180 printed pages. Well, that is when I stopped trying to "fit" the webpages to a printed page. It is more pages. I even tried to make a PDF, because a book was requested.

I have looked at the two books I recommend on the first webpage. I think my website is better than books.

My website is imitated, and, "mined" for information.

If you read it all, including the links on every webpage, you would make yourself an expert, by then.

I have no advertisements, and, sell nothing.

It is an information only website. Read it.

[Lone Wolf]

So where's the line where someone crosses from ultra light to stupid light?
Please address seasonal issues.

when you show up in georgia in march with no shelter or stove and ask folks to boil water for you

[Deacon]

The "10 essentials" were always the "10 essentials - the systems approach".

I helped formulate the list. No, it isn't that long ago that "the ten essentials" were formulated.

It was never 10 items of gear, you carry. It was never 10 items of gear, you carry - you do not know how to use.

My website addresses all these points, in over 180 printed pages. Well, that is when I stopped trying to "fit" the webpages to a printed page. It is more pages. I even tried to make a PDF, because a book was requested.

I have looked at the two books I recommend on the first webpage. I think my website is better than books.

My website is imitated, and, "mined" for information.

If you read it all, including the links on every webpage, you would make yourself an expert, by then.

I have no advertisements, and, sell nothing.

It is an information only website. Read it.

How about a link?

[rocketsocks]

The "10 essentials" were always the "10 essentials - the systems approach".

I helped formulate the list. No, it isn't that long ago that "the ten essentials" were formulated.

It was never 10 items of gear, you carry. It was never 10 items of gear, you carry - you do not know how to use.

My website addresses all these points, in over 180 printed pages. Well, that is when I stopped trying to "fit" the webpages to a printed page. It is more pages. I even tried to make a PDF, because a book was requested.

I have looked at the two books I recommend on the first webpage. I think my website is better than books.

My website is imitated, and, "mined" for information.

If you read it all, including the links on every webpage, you would make yourself an expert, by then.

I have no advertisements, and, sell nothing.

It is an information only website. Read it.

uh huh, and where did you do your mining? I did mine reading Colin Fletchers book "The Complete Walker" and others, it was my bible many moons ago, still is.

[Odd Man Out]

I think in term of a cost-benefit analysis. Is the gain of cutting grams worth the loss of what I'm giving up? If you accurately and completely understand both sides (gain and loss) fine. You've crossed the line when you only consider the benefit (cutting grams) and not the cost.

[Connie]

My link is at my "signature" on each post in the forum. It is green, at the bottem of the post.

I certainly did not "mine" Colin Fletcher. I was "started" by Freedom of the Hills, and, the same man who "started" Lou and Jim Whittaker, and, the same people who "started" Mountain Rescue.

It was because of "our" successful rescues, we have the EMT program. When we started, even MD's were afraid to do "first aid". We were the first to make the most of "the Good Samaritan law".

In fact, national and world famous organizations have "mined" my website.

But, then, why not? I was a rope leader with that program when I was 15 years old.