Is ATC the problem

[Getty]

Maybe imscotty is on the right track with Benton Mackaye. Benton worked to solve a problem by helping assemble the A.T.. Why couldn't this also be the solution to the current problems facing the A.T. now. I see this as an opportunity to take advantage of a situation where demand is high and space is low. I see adding new trail approaches leading into the existing trail with equivalent mileage as one possibility. I also entertain the idea of building completely new trails as another. Why not an East Coast trail or a Mid West Trail.

[Almost There]

Maybe imscotty is on the right track with Benton Mackaye. Benton worked to solve a problem by helping assemble the A.T.. Why couldn't this also be the solution to the current problems facing the A.T. now. I see this as an opportunity to take advantage of a situation where demand is high and space is low. I see adding new trail approaches leading into the existing trail with equivalent mileage as one possibility. I also entertain the idea of building completely new trails as another. Why not an East Coast trail or a Mid West Trail.

The problem is the folks who want to hike the "official" trail and those who want to partake of free stuff. You have to start somewhere, but most won't want to hike the alternate. While towns are close to the MacKaye, the feeling is far more remote in my opinion, although I guess that might change if numbers go up. You also now have to include a new trail governing body as the MacKaye is it's own trail, as are some of the other trails. The Bartram for example intersects the AT just north of Franklin, NC. Ideas are good, because if there is a fix, then there is no quick fix.

The issue here is not the same as the CDT which has numerous termini and routes to hike because there are many places along the CDT that have yet to be completed. The AT is a finished trail, and so has a defined pathway, a change in attitude requires stepping back from this fact. I have hiked numerous blue blazes along the way, and some roads that were quite enjoyable, but I'm no purist, and don't particularly care if I have a patch or certificate. Isn't why I go out. My goal is to "WALK" all the way, that's it.

[Dogwood]

If you define the problem as crappy and overcrowded camping areas etc. The potential fixes include other solutions as well.

YES. Absolutely. No argument from me, although from my perspective, that's not the entirety of the problems by any stretch of the imagination.

"The AT can be made to absorb a great many people. My examples -- the Whites and Mount Monadnock were presented to illustrate examples of where that is done well."

YES. I see your point. I'm simply saying look a little closer on HOW that is accomplished. Again, you give two examples of places where there is a system of trails - both Mt Modadnock and The Whites - as opposed to the AT which is perceived as ONE CONTINUOUS LINEAR TRAIL NOT A SYSTEM OF TRAILS. You're talking about two different things. There's a difference and it's reflected in how the two can absorb the numbers.

Still, there are places and at times in The White Mountain and at Mt Modanock trail systems where bottle necks and heavy usage occur. Both these places are highly impacted by human use. To deny that is not facing the reality of the situation. Have you ever encountered hundreds of humans atop Mt Washington, Franconia Ridge, and Mt. Monadnock? It can be a carnival of human activity certainly not always leading to such a pristine environment as some make it seem.

[squeezebox]

Almost 60 yrs ago when I was 5 yrs. old, I helped do laundry, with the wringer washer you were there the whole time. I walked my senile grandfather, too much like walking the dog, helped in the garden , canning also. I was connected to what was going on in our life much more than today. Today people are more connected to their TV . How long ago was it when 50% + of people lived on small farms? Just try to find an 80 acre farm now. Many people want to reconnect to nature, back to our roots. There's a peacefulnes there. There's an increase in urban gardens, backyard chickens etc. I don't want to be a sardine smashed into a little can packed in oil. so I go hiking. So don't blame the ATC, blame society, and don't blame the folks that want to get out into the woods, help them push their boundories a bit, With some help some of them will learn to love the woods as much as you do.

[Dogwood]

Some nice posts here by several people.

"Do you want 200 hikers per day on the trail in GA?"

I think that's a gross underestimation of the numbers on the 79 miles of the GA AT at times. Heck, I've been atop Blood Mt with some 100+ hikers alone. It's why I'm leaving in an hr to hike the AT from Amicalola Falls SP to Chattahoochee Gap(Jacks Knob trail junction) and up to Brasstown Bald down the Wagon Train Tr. and head back to AFSP by way of the Duncan Ridge Trail/BMT from Neels Gap. See you out there if anyone is interested. Crowds not anticipated. Some brisk temps and sunny skies are.

[squeezebox]

Instead of standing around talking with tourists, tell the you gotta get hiking and invite them to come along for a mile or so.

[squeezebox]

Almost 60 yrs ago when I was 5 yrs. old, I helped do laundry, with the wringer washer you were there the whole time. I walked my senile grandfather, too much like walking the dog, helped in the garden , canning also. I was connected to what was going on in our life much more than today. Today people are more connected to their TV . How long ago was it when 50% + of people lived on small farms? Just try to find an 80 acre farm now. Many people want to reconnect to nature, back to our roots. There's a peacefulnes there. There's an increase in urban gardens, backyard chickens etc. I don't want to be a sardine smashed into a little can packed in oil. so I go hiking. So don't blame the ATC, blame society, and don't blame the folks that want to get out into the woods, help them push their boundories a bit, With some help some of them will learn to love the woods as much as you do.

[Dogwood]

indeed, too much talk and not enough walk. I apply that to myself too.

Solvitur ambulando

[Lauriep]

Directing A.T. thru-hikers to the Benton MacKaye Trail as an alternate route requires more than ATC's blessing.

It would need the approval of the Benton MacKaye Trail Association, the Chattahoochee National Forest, The Cherokee National Forest, and the Great Smoky Mountains National Park. We have already passed along the suggestion to three of these entities. At least one has already conveyed that they have concerns.

Keep in mind that the BMT is a much more primitive, remote, and less-traveled trail than the A.T. The BMTA website states that "Wilderness areas are generally not blazed, so a map and compass is required."

All this is not to say that anyone has absolutely ruled this out as a possibility. Just know that it is being considered, but the evaluation process will take some time. If any one of the managing partners above is opposed to it, then it would be a non-starter.

Laurie P.
ATC

[Starchild]

Directing A.T. thru-hikers to the Benton MacKaye Trail as an alternate route requires more than ATC's blessing.

It would need the approval of the Benton MacKaye Trail Association, the Chattahoochee National Forest, The Cherokee National Forest, and the Great Smoky Mountains National Park. We have already passed along the suggestion to three of these entities. At least one has already conveyed that they have concerns.

Keep in mind that the BMT is a much more primitive, remote, and less-traveled trail than the A.T. The BMTA website states that "Wilderness areas are generally not blazed, so a map and compass is required."

All this is not to say that anyone has absolutely ruled this out as a possibility. Just know that it is being considered, but the evaluation process will take some time. If any one of the managing partners above is opposed to it, then it would be a non-starter.

Laurie P.
ATC

Wouldn't it depend on how it is done? If they need the blessings of these other agencies or could do it unilaterally? Yes it would be the right thing to do to get them onboard, and I would not want to see it just done this way especially if there are objections, and the ramifications considered (such as unwanted extra use of these trails), but could a simple change in the AT text to allow blue blazing as official AT travel (perhaps with some stipulations, like not using it as a shortcut) make any trail avaialble as part of one's AT journey?

[Lauriep]

Maybe I did paint that too much in black and white, Starchild. After all, we wouldn't have a connected trail all the way from Georgia to Maine if we had deferred to every single entity that was not thrilled to have the A.T. come through their lands.

[lemon b]

Simple answer The ATC is not the problem. Without the ATC the trail would be much different. Mainly as far as right of ways. No ATC and there would be alot more road walking. Hiking as just become more popular and the AT has become the center of many folks attention. There are plenty of other beautiful trail experiences out there.

[Connie]

My interest is the "fallout" on the other trails.

I have seen more than my share of homeless and drug-culture "poseurs" and drug and alcohol party-goers, in San Francisco, CA where I resided in Haight-Ashbury neighborhood 18+ years. I have no interest in going back into that environment, which has become the AT.

I think that is what the AT has "evolved" to, by journals, by YouTube and by photos.

That said, I really like Starchild's vision of the AT as a "journey experience".

Why not emphasize that?

The fact is, the journals, YouTube and photos are "weak" on both facts and details for actually hiking the AT.

The fact is, you go about and herald yourselves and the denizen's of the AT as almost "mythic" modern-day heroes. it is all "PR" and hype.

The individuals who actually complete the AT or PCT tell a different story.

I actually go hiking. I don't glamorize it.

[Coffee]

"I have seen more than my share of homeless and drug-culture "poseurs" and drug and alcohol party-goers, in San Francisco, CA where I resided in Haight-Ashbury neighborhood 18+ years. I have no interest in going back into that environment, which has become the AT."

Seriously, is it that bad in the NOBO thru hiker bubble?

I spent a month in Colorado last summer where pot is legal now. I saw exactly two guys who were obviously stoned, both in or near hostels and not on the trail. On the other hand, there were quite a few stoned, drunk, and passed out people in downtown Denver on the pedestrian mall when I came through the city for one night. A few of them had large backpacks but I'm not sure if they were homeless or hikers. I suspect homeless or hiking groupies. They looked in no shape to actually hike. FWIW.

[MuddyWaters]

I agree the AT is not a pure wilderness trail.
However, it passes thru many designated wilderness areas.
It has a responsibility to uphold the spirit of those areas and the reasons they were established.

This, is where the BSP conflict comes from, and i doubt GSMNP is far behind. However, there are dozens of wilderness areas.

[Thinspace]

How about the coming of the information age. Everyone has at their fingertips, websites, blogs, youtube videos, hiker forums etc. etc. When I started hiking in the 1970's it was much harder to get information on anything. There was no internet, few books and publications. You either got you information form the outfiitters where you bought your gear, from other people you met on the trail, maybe a local club or maybe through the limited outdoor courses that were available back then. Today you can do a virtual online hike of most of the AT on youtube alone.

[Digger'02]

Yes, its really Laurie Potteiger, she's a huge problem. No one is that nice.....what is she hiding.......

[Almost There]

Keep in mind that the BMT is a much more primitive, remote, and less-traveled trail than the A.T. The BMTA website states that "Wilderness areas are generally not blazed, so a map and compass is required."


Laurie P.
ATC

Laurie brings up a great point, and it reminds me that I believe I read the trail is not allowed to be blazed in one or two wilderness areas the BMT passes through, I got turned around in one of them, only went a mile before I realized it, but still that would be NFS rules, which might actually be law. Still it is nice to know that the matter is being considered, and people would be reminded that some of the best hiking is in areas not on the beaten path.

[Connie]

I would like to see a wilderness area. It seems a winderness area doesn't exist.

The Bob Marshall Wilderness has little road signs with trail mileage and a boardwalk.

I am organizing for a PNT Pacific Northwest Trail for section hiking, and, I am considering the Bigfoot Trail for section hiking or a thru in Northern California.

[TNhiker]

Laurie brings up a great point, and it reminds me that I believe I read the trail is not allowed to be blazed in one or two wilderness areas the BMT passes through

that is correct----in some of the wilderness areas here in Tennessee , the BMT is not blazed...

one can literally go from following a blaze one minute and then not seeing one for a while...

not sure if all wilderness areas don't have the blaze---just know about a section or two that I was on last year...