Pack Animals Legality

[Sacchoromyces]

Not looking for "whether it's a good idea", or "ethically I think..." comments. I want to know whether there are specific regulations in localities and Nat'l. Parks that prohibit the use of pack animals to haul one's gear. I'm referring to alpaca (and their ilk), burrows, even dogs (for partial loads).

I understand the GSMNP has some regulations issues when it comes to where one can camp. Does it (or other places) also regulate non-human trail/shelter area use?

Someone I know has used alpaca and llama as pack animals for archery hunting the back country in CO and WY. That sparked a curiosity in me about them for backpacking...

[Malto]

https://www.appalachiantrail.org/hik...ations-permits

[MuddyWaters]

Where horses are allowed in many western parks, you can also probably use llamas, but you would need to check. This is not uncommon out west in large national parks where trails were created for stock animals.

Horses are allowed on a very small part of the AT in gsmnp, but are to be ridden. There is quite a bit of other trail open to horse riding in gsmnp though.

Some trails in national forests are open to horses, some arent. You have to investigate one-by-one. There is no simple answer.

I come across horse tracks and crap on trails that are prohibited all the time. Horse people are as bad as mountain bikers at ignoring trail restrictions. Or worse. Horses can do a lot of damage to trails.

A dog cant even carry all his own stuff, much less yours. Thats pretty much a laughable concept. They also are known for losing packs.

[kayak karl]

Malto's post eliminated everything, but dogs. i would not suggest a dog for any lot at all. i know some have them carry their own (dog's) gear, but not my thing. 2015's first dog thread

[bigcranky]

Malto's post eliminated everything, but dogs.

Right, note that the AT itself is a linear national part and does not allow pack animals at all (not just inside the Smokies or SNP).

[MuddyWaters]

Checking the gsmnp regs, the stock trails there do allow one pack animal per person, in addition to the one ridden. This also includes llamas.

So, you may use this on the sections of AT in gsmnp that is open to horses. I camped with a horse rider once at tricorner knob shelter. About half the AT in the smokies is open to horses. I recall a hitching post horse area on the trail above tricorner shelter.

The gsmnp regs are controlling.

[Slo-go'en]

I know a guy in Colorado who hikes with goats to carry gear. Apparently they can carry up to 30 pounds. But if you want to hike with pack animals, you have to go out west. As noted, their not allowed on the AT.

[HooKooDooKu]

GSMNP regulations defines pack animals to be horses, mules, burros, and llamas.

You must carry with you paper work showing the pack animal(s) have a negative "Coggins test".

Pack animals are NOT allowed on "cross-county" hikes (i.e. off trail hikes).

The rules are pretty detailed on what trails and even roads that pack animals are and are not allowed on. There are even some rules on where you're even allowed to unload pack animals.

As pointed out by MuddyWaters, each person is allowed one mount and one additional pack animal. But there is the additional restriction of a maximum of 10 animals per group. So if you have a party of 8 people (maximum allowed with few exceptions), if everyone is riding, the group would only be allowed 2 additional pack animals.

There are additional regulations on feed, how horses must be hitched, and etc.

[Connie]

Glacier National Park, MT http://www.nps.gov/glac/planyourvisi...testockuse.htm referred to as "private stock use". I would love to do the inside North Fork Road, for all I know is unused.

Glacier National Park, MT also has a horse concession for trail rides, including backcountry.

Flathead National Forest and Lewis and Clark National Forest are adjacent the National Park. Each has rules.

Bob Marshall Wilderness is near. Rules.

There are horse outfitters for backcountry for these areas, not at all limited to licensed outfitters.

For private stock, I would think you could find national forests, by name, wilderness areas, by name, ranger districts, by name, and national parks, by name, national receeation areas, by name, for the area or region you are interested.

I have seen trailheads for horses with loading ramps, corrals; some even have shelters and toilets. Inquire where the provisions are, or, if a parking lot is acceptable.

State, county and city parks have their own rules.

i would think this outlines where and how to inquire.

[Starchild]

You may be able to do better with a aerial drone to fly your stuff but that too is prohibited in national parks such as the Smokies.

[MuddyWaters]

You may be able to do better with a aerial drone to fly your stuff but that too is prohibited in national parks such as the Smokies.

Actually, the NPS stepped forward and prohibited drones from all AT lands.

[Feral Bill]

If you are interested in llama packing you should know that horses that are not used to them will absolutely freak out when they meet them. Check ahead for the situation where you plan to go. Where llama packers are common it should be fine.

[jonrocmtn]

Weather permitting, Llama trains are used Monday, Wednesday and Friday to supply the Lodge on Mt. LeConte.

[peakbagger]

The white mountain national forest used to permit one llama packing firm but the llamas were restricted to two lesser used districts. Apparently llamas despite their reputation do not do well on rocky white mountain trails so they tended to stay down low on trails that were mostly old logging roads. The AMC long ago used mule trains to supply Madison Hut, the name remains http://www.whitemountainjackass.org/

[Sacchoromyces]

If you are interested in llama packing you should know that horses that are not used to them will absolutely freak out when they meet them.

Screw horses and their riders. Those hay-burners do more trail damage than 50 humans, or 10 mountain bikers. I couldn't care less that they "freak out". Shows how stupid an animal they are.

Now that we've cleared that up...

[Connie]

The AT is ruined, as far as I am concerned, by hikers.

I wouldn't bother to travel there to hike it. If I lived nearby, I would hike the other trails.

Tree roots do not naturally stick out of the dirt like that. It is erosion caused by overuse, by people.

There are already too many people.

The OP is only interested in "approved" trails. That is the inquiry.

Some terrain is appropriate. That is worth finding out. It is the decent thing, to find out.

[Hot Flash]

Screw horses and their riders. Those hay-burners do more trail damage than 50 humans, or 10 mountain bikers. I couldn't care less that they "freak out". Shows how stupid an animal they are.

Now that we've cleared that up...

So you don't give a damn if someone's horse throws the rider and injures or kills them or the horse breaks a leg and has to be put down. That's real nice of you. The only "stupid animal" I'm seeing here is the one that doesn't care about their fellow human beings, whether or not they agree with their trail use.

[Hangfire]

There's definitely horses on the trail in the GSNP as you will see road apples along the way, but they are used by the rangers to bring in duff for the privys...or at least that's what they tell us.

[tim.hiker]

So you don't give a damn if someone's horse throws the rider and injures or kills them or the horse breaks a leg and has to be put down. That's real nice of you. The only "stupid animal" I'm seeing here is the one that doesn't care about their fellow human beings, whether or not they agree with their trail use.

I agree for sure with . Rather I agree with ones way of traveling on the trail I would never want anyone to get hurt or say anything like he did, there a lot of people that are into Hiking, Biking and Horses

[Traveler]

And the bigger pellets that smell like pepper spray with bells in them belong to the bears . . .

HA! Dinner bells...