The 'Thru-Hiker Permit'...

[Saprogenic]

I see more and more state/parks are restricting and regulating the forest these days. Needing a series of permits, paying fees just to enjoy the little woods we have left. For thru-hikers, the last thing you want to have to worry about is whether or not you currently need a permit or risks fines. I say, lets get a request going. Let's get all of these parks together, and get a 'Thru-Hiker's Permit' going. One piece of paper you purchase at either end or online, that's allows you permission to camp along the entire trail. One permit, allowing you to free your mind from fines/rangers. They can still have their sign-in's just for safety's sake, but the walking miles out of the way, to pay someone for a piece of paper saying your allowed to camp now is ridiculous when you think about it. Let's get a single permit going for thru-hikers. Who's with me?!

[Spokes]

Negative on the "Thru-Hiker's Permit". I'm very much a "moderate Libertarian" when it comes to hiking. Your idea just opens the door for some Federal bureaucrat to go hog wild.

So, being a realist as well, I know some form of moderate regulations are needed for safety and impact minimization. That, to me is still best left to the States.

[WIAPilot]

I agree with you Spokes, but it really IS the lesser of two evils. Bureaucracy is NOT "going away!" I am all for a "Thru-Hikers Permit" as LONG as it provides us with more freedom than the already existing regulations. Just remember that this can be a "double-edged sword." The last thing we want is to bring attention to this and end up not only having to pay fees, but having more restrictions!! I know several politicians, but unfortunately they are in AZ.

[WingedMonkey]

I'm not aware of any thru-hiker having "walking miles out of the way" to obtain the few permits now required.

[Wil]

I see more and more state/parks are restricting and regulating the forest these days. Needing a series of permits, paying fees just to enjoy the little woods we have left. For thru-hikers, the last thing you want to have to worry about is whether or not you currently need a permit or risks fines. I say, lets get a request going. Let's get all of these parks together, and get a 'Thru-Hiker's Permit' going. One piece of paper you purchase at either end or online, that's allows you permission to camp along the entire trail. One permit, allowing you to free your mind from fines/rangers. They can still have their sign-in's just for safety's sake, but the walking miles out of the way, to pay someone for a piece of paper saying your allowed to camp now is ridiculous when you think about it. Let's get a single permit going for thru-hikers. Who's with me?!

We could start with a form letter:

Dear [Head of Park], We notice that you are more and more restricting and regulating the forest these days, requiring a series of permits, requiring us to pay fees just to enjoy the little woods we have left. That nonsense may be fine for everybody else, but not for us thru-hikers, the last thing we want. You need to eliminate your local requirements for such important people as us. We're still willing to put up with your sign-in's just for safety's sake, but we can't be expected to go out of our way or to pay someone for a piece of paper saying we're allowed to camp. I'm sure you agree how ridiculous that is, now that I've pointed it out politely to you how ridiculous you are. Please eliminate your silly local requirements and permits and get together with your fellow Park Bureaucrats and establish "one-permit" to cover the whole trip that we thru-hikers can purchase online or at the start of our trip and then have free, no-restrictions access to your Park whenever we happen to get to it. Let me know when you've finished. Sincerely, [a Very Important Person]

[Cookerhiker]

I think you misunderstand and have confused the whole subject(s) of permits, fees (or lack thereof), and camping restrictions.

Permits are only required in the 2 large National Parks through which the trail passes. There is no fee for these permits. Each park has rules on camping but only the Smokies requires you to confine your nightly stays to designated areas (the shelters). Since your context is thruhiking, you don't need reservations in the Smokies' shelters. Re. Shenandoah, a permit is required but camping restrictions aren't too burdensome - you just can't camp near roads and established campgrounds.

In neither of these parks must you "walk miles out of the way to pay someone." I don't know where you got that idea.


Regarding camping restrictions in NJ, CT, and MA, those are state regulations and state issues. Again, we're not talking about "permits" but restrictions on where you may camp. No fees.

So do you have to pay anywhere on the AT? Yes, some of the shelters in VT and NH charge fees. This is neither federal nor state-imposed; rather the fees are from the local hiking clubs for using their shelters. Do you have to stay there? No, you can camp in the woods. No fee, no restriction, no permit. It's true that camping along the trail above treeline in the Whites is nigh-impossible but as other threads have reported, a hiker has a few options (long days, hiking side trails below treeline, work-for stay in the AMC huts are some examples).

Finally, there's Baxter State Park. No fee. Restrictions: no back country camping but it's less than 10 easy miles from Abol Bridge to Katahdin Stream CG where there are designated sites for thruhikers (The Birches). No biggie.

[WIAPilot]

We could start with a form letter:

Dear [Head of Park], We notice that you are more and more restricting and regulating the forest these days, requiring a series of permits, requiring us to pay fees just to enjoy the little woods we have left. That nonsense may be fine for everybody else, but not for us thru-hikers, the last thing we want. You need to eliminate your local requirements for such important people as us. We're still willing to put up with your sign-in's just for safety's sake, but we can't be expected to go out of our way or to pay someone for a piece of paper saying we're allowed to camp. I'm sure you agree how ridiculous that is, now that I've pointed it out politely to you how ridiculous you are. Please eliminate your silly local requirements and permits and get together with your fellow Park Bureaucrats and establish "one-permit" to cover the whole trip that we thru-hikers can purchase online or at the start of our trip and then have free, no-restrictions access to your Park whenever we happen to get to it. Let me know when you've finished. Sincerely, [a Very Important Person]

Welcome to the world! And yes, I DO think that some allowances should be made regarding thru hikers on the AT. I don't think the trail was ever designed to be a place where there is so much red tape that you can be 50ft off and incur a $150 fine for a minor infraction. Or need a code book to determine the regulations in each area. And it is only going to get worse! However if this manages to be pushed through, I am sure that you will "do the right thing" and sarcastically refrain from applying...

[Cookerhiker]

We could start with a form letter:.... Sincerely, [a Very Important Person]

My only edit: [Sincerely, a Very Important Person (because I am a thruhiker)]

[Hanriver]

I think you misunderstand and have confused the whole subject(s) of permits, fees (or lack thereof), and camping restrictions.

Permits are only required in the 2 large National Parks through which the trail passes. There is no fee for these permits. Each park has rules on camping but only the Smokies requires you to confine your nightly stays to designated areas (the shelters). Since your context is thruhiking, you don't need reservations in the Smokies' shelters. Re. Shenandoah, a permit is required but camping restrictions aren't too burdensome - you just can't camp near roads and established campgrounds.

In neither of these parks must you "walk miles out of the way to pay someone." I don't know where you got that idea.


Regarding camping restrictions in NJ, CT, and MA, those are state regulations and state issues. Again, we're not talking about "permits" but restrictions on where you may camp. No fees.

So do you have to pay anywhere on the AT? Yes, some of the shelters in VT and NH charge fees. This is neither federal nor state-imposed; rather the fees are from the local hiking clubs for using their shelters. Do you have to stay there? No, you can camp in the woods. No fee, no restriction, no permit. It's true that camping along the trail above treeline in the Whites is nigh-impossible but as other threads have reported, a hiker has a few options (long days, hiking side trails below treeline, work-for stay in the AMC huts are some examples).

Finally, there's Baxter State Park. No fee. Restrictions: no back country camping but it's less than 10 easy miles from Abol Bridge to Katahdin Stream CG where there are designated sites for thruhikers (The Birches). No biggie.

Well said.

[Cookerhiker]

I see more and more state/parks are restricting and regulating the forest these days....

Oh by the way on my first section hike in Vermont back in '77, I had to get a permit to camp in the Lye Brook Wilderness Area. That requirement doesn't exist any more.

Fees? Early thruhikers (all pedestrians, not just "special" thruhikers) had to pay a toll to hike across the Hudson River at Bear Mountain Bridge. No more.

This isn't a "permit/fee" issue but on his 1951 thruhike, Gene Espy was refused service in the tony Skyland Lodge in Shenandoah NP unless he came around to the back by the kitchen so as to not offend the other guests.

Ah for the good old days....

[WIAPilot]

Admittedly, I am just learning about this, so I am apologizing in advance if I am not correct, but from what I am reading, the following areas have restrictions and/ or require permits:

GSMNP
SNP
NJ
CT
Harriman State Park - NY
PA
Baxter State Park

Is this list correct or are there any other areas where there are restrictions?

[Wil]

... all pedestrians ... had to pay a toll to hike across the Hudson River at Bear Mountain Bridge. No more

There was a mechanical/electrical sensor that tripped as you walked through the "toll" station. One early thru'er describes in his account how he couldn't get the indicator to register, and the toll collector kept making him walk back and forth (thru'ers just LOVE retracing steps!), even jumping up and down to try to get the damned thing to work. Toll-taker finally gave up and let him cross for free. Maybe the first thru-hiker freebie!

[Wil]

are there any other areas where there are restrictions?

MA has restrictions. There are (I think) three entities that impose restrictions in the White Mountains of New Hampshire, though the AT may not go through all three jurisdictions; basically 200 feet from trail or water, 1/4 mile from other spots such as huts and trailheads, but there's more small print.

[Wil]

more small print

No camp above tree line is BIG print, shouldn't have left that out

[Saprogenic]

''In neither of these parks must you "walk miles out of the way to pay someone." I don't know where you got that idea.''

I read it in my 2012 Thru-Hiker' Companion. It says, "Southbounders - you must trek 1.3 miles east on... to the park's ranger station." That to me is walking out of the way for a "backcountry" permit. Granted I'm only goingby what I'm reading having never done it myself.

"Oh by the way on my first section hike in Vermont back in '77, I had to get a permit to camp in the Lye Brook Wilderness Area. That requirement doesn't exist any more.

Fees? Early thruhikers (all pedestrians, not just "special" thruhikers) had to pay a toll to hike across the Hudson River at Bear Mountain Bridge. No more.

This isn't a "permit/fee" issue but on his 1951 thruhike, Gene Espy was refused service in the tony Skyland Lodge in Shenandoah NP unless he came around to the back by the kitchen so as to not offend the other guests.

Ah for the good old days...."

I didn't mean so literally. I've never been on this particular trail 30 years ago. I was talking about my state where I'm used to. Didn't know about those earlier fees. Thought the forest used to be free to enjoy. If it wasn't around here I just didn't know. No internet and who would have thought. Never had a ranger bother me(I was also never in an actual campsite.)

[Rasty]

Sounds like a great idea to have a permit forthru-hikers?

The permits would be issued by the federal government. They would immediatelydo a study and determine that the trail is over used and only issue a limitednumber of permits just like what happens on many rivers. So you would need tofill out your lottery request form up to ten years in advance or sign up withan outfitter who has an available permit for a substantial fee. Want tothru-hike when you are 18 then fill out your request form for a specific startdate when you are an 8 year old. Just look at the restrictions and lotterysystem used for the Colorado River to see what it would turn into.

[Saprogenic]

I never said thru-hiker's were "Special" as you put it. I just meant since it such a long, one shot trip. It would be nice to go for those 4-6 months having your papers in order without the worry of getting a permit at the next park. Since section hikers generally get the permit for their intended hike, those who hike through multiple parks would appreciate only needing that one piece of paper. Hey, it was just an idea. I'm not starting my thru-hike until this July, so until then I'm just going off of what I read. And the more I read, it just seems a bit overwhelming, needing permits here and there or get fined. I also am DEFINETLY NOT suggesting more regulation/fees, simply saying what if the existing fees/permits were combined onto one easily purchased permit. I thought that would be nice, since there a such a high number of people in it every year, thought it may be worth considering.

[Saprogenic]

Sounds like a great idea to have a permit forthru-hikers?

The permits would be issued by the federal government. They would immediatelydo a study and determine that the trail is over used and only issue a limitednumber of permits just like what happens on many rivers. So you would need tofill out your lottery request form up to ten years in advance or sign up withan outfitter who has an available permit for a substantial fee. Want tothru-hike when you are 18 then fill out your request form for a specific startdate when you are an 8 year old. Just look at the restrictions and lotterysystem used for the Colorado River to see what it would turn into.

You do have a point there. Hmmm.... Why does Uncle Sam always have to ruin everything?

[Cookerhiker]

''In neither of these parks must you "walk miles out of the way to pay someone." I don't know where you got that idea.''

I read it in my 2012 Thru-Hiker' Companion. It says, "Southbounders - you must trek 1.3 miles east on... to the park's ranger station." That to me is walking out of the way for a "backcountry" permit. Granted I'm only goingby what I'm reading having never done it myself. ....

When I hiked SOBO in '04, I was able to get a Smokies permit from the Forest Service office in Hot Springs. Apparently that option no longer exists but according to the Companion, you can obtain your permit from Bluff Mountain Outfitters which is on the main street. Unfortunately, the Companion gives the outfitter's hours as "Sa-Su" implying that they're closed on weekdays. I checked their FB page where it states that they're open 7 days a week.

This is not atypical; permits (involving fees) in the Red River Gorge of Daniel Boone National Forest are available at local outfitters & stores.

[Saprogenic]

I guess it may be one of those, " it seemed like a good idea at the time" moments...
Forgot to consider the constrictive gov.