AT thru-hiker wants to know how much different PCT will be.

[LongGone2013]

Hey everyone,

I'm planning a 2015 PCT thru-hike. I hiked the AT in 2013 in 115 days (109 hiking days, 6 zeros). I'm no stranger to thru-hiking but I've never been west of Colorado and I'm wondering what conditions/technicalities of the PCT I need to know about.

Basically, here are my questions:

1) How hard is water to find in the southern section of the trail?

2) What is an average resupply time (in days)? I never had to pack more than 4 days of food on the AT.

3) What map set/app should I use on trail?

4) For those of you who have hiked both AT and PCT, what changes do I need to make in gear? I've been told to go down to a 0˙ bag (instead of my 20˙). I want to go pretty lightweight, can I get away with a 48L pack instead of a 65L?

Thanks,

LongGone
Appalachian Trail
Georgia > Maine 2013

[Miner]

1) How hard is water to find in the southern section of the trail? Download the PCT Water Report just before starting as it lists all the possible water sources and their last known status. Download it again in Big Bear for the latest updates. It's as accurate as hikers make it to be, so contribute to your trail karma and email in your own reports. There are some long water carries. In a normal rain year, I often carried 4.5 L and carried 6L once. I was always able to find water at least once a day. The last 2 years have been a huge drought so some reliable sources actually dried up this past year. If we have another drought year, it's going to be bad. However, we have gotten some rain, but we won't know how dry or wet it will be until April.

2) What is an average resupply time (in days)? I never had to pack more than 4 days of food on the AT. Resupply points on the PCT are farther apart then the AT as you are in the middle of nowhere with no civilization around most of the time. Depends on how far you hike each day and if you use some of the lesser used resupply points. I recommend starting off slower then your body feels able to do inorder to fully adjust. Too many hikers get overuse injuries in the first 2-3 weeks from pounding out big miles due to the easy grade of trail. You could get a feel from some trail journals by looking at when they reached town on average. I normally carried 4-5 days on average. My longest was 7 days. Some hikers go 10-12 days straight from Kennedy Meadows to VVR in the High Sierra, but you can take a side trail and resupply halfway in that interval.

3) What map set/app should I use on trail? Most people use Halfmile's PCT maps. You can download them for free and print them out or pay Yogi (of Yogi's PCT handbook) to print them for you. Some people like Guthook's PCT app, but I didn't use it as I don't like having to worry about recharging my phone in the backcountry when I may be a week from the next town. Even if I used it, I'd still carry Halfmile's maps. A lot of people like getting Yogi's PCT handbook to supplement the information, but since you have long trail experience, it's usefulness isn't as much as for a newbie. Though her town guide portion is of great use to everyone. Her guidebook would answer all these questions though.

4) For those of you who have hiked both AT and PCT, what changes do I need to make in gear? I've been told to go down to a 0˙ bag (instead of my 20˙). I want to go pretty lightweight, can I get away with a 48L pack instead of a 65L?
I used a 20F down quilt and finished in a snow storm on Oct 2. I only resorted to using my extra clothing for warmth once. The only reason to use something warmer is because you sleep cold. On a very rare occasion, you may seen high teens, but your clothing layers should be enough so don't worry about it. As for the pack size, it depends on your gear. You need something that can handle carrying 4-6 L of water and 5 days of food in SoCal. You need something that can carry a bear can, ice axe, and at least 7 days of food in the Sierra Nevada. The most popular pack on the PCT is the ULA Circuit (it's main internal pocket and extension collar is about 47L and it only goes upto 68L when you count all the external pockets). My baseweight is about 9 pounds so if I was to do the PCT again, I'd go with my frameless ULA CDT pack. Most hikers couldn't get away with that. However, the PCT is the trail that many ultralight techniques and gear were developed on, so for someone who knows what they are doing, you could go really lightweight.

You need to carry the ability to haul a lot of water compared to the AT. While the biggest water issues are SoCAL, there are some dry stretches in NorCal and Oregon. The PCT is a colder trail in summer so most people carry the same gear from Mexico to Canada and don't switch out anything. You may hit some hot weather in NorCal, but it can cool off a few days later. It can rain anywhere on the trail so always have some sort of raingear as the temperature usually drops when it does (not hot humid rain like the mid-Atlantic in summer). It can snow anywhere as well. I've seen snow in the mountains of SoCal as late as early June and in the Sierra Nevada every month of the year. I was happy using a small tarp and lightweight bivy sack for the trail and cowboy camped (ie. slept out in the open without a shelter) all but 9 times. And yes, mosquitos can be an issue in the Sierra Nevada and Oregon so have some sort of netting until the temperature drops at night and they go away. In the Sierra Nevada, you will need a Bear Can (can be rented) and possibly an ice axe and microspikes (depending on the snow pack). Many hikers prefer to cover up in the sun in SoCal as there is very little shade at times. So long lightweight pants, long sleeve shirts, and big sun hats are common; as is sunscreen. I found that permithrin treated clothing removed most of my need for DEET in the Sierra Nevada where the mosquitos can look like grey clouds.

[Fairway]

Basically, here are my questions:

1) How hard is water to find in the southern section of the trail?

Go to postholer.com and find the water report. Refresh it on your phone or print a new one when you leave towns. You'll be best served to not rely on water caches.

2) What is an average resupply time (in days)?

I never had to pack more than 4 days of food on the AT.

The average carry is 4-5 days. The longest carry will be 7-12 depending on how you decide to resupply in the Sierra.

3) What map set/app should I use on trail?

I used Halfmile's maps, and Yogi's town guide. Since you've thru hiked before you could skip Yogi's guide.

4) For those of you who have hiked both AT and PCT, what changes do I need to make in gear? I've been told to go down to a 0˙ bag (instead of my 20˙). I want to go pretty lightweight, can I get away with a 48L pack instead of a 65L?

I carried a 20 degree quilt and that was fine, I did wear all my clothes to sleep in on more than one occasion. If you hiked the AT in March, the PCT won't be that cold. I wish I had something warmer than a z lite sleeping pad in WA. You'll need sun protection if you're pasty so... long sleeves, sun hat, sunscreen, and sun glasses are a good idea. You'll want at least 4L of water carrying capacity. You have to have a bear can in Yosemite, so if a bear can fits in the pack it will work. If the snow is bad you may want an ice axe, baskets for poles, and micro spikes.

[Fairway]

Just a heads up, open fires and stoves that don't have an off switch are banned in most of California. So no alcohol, esbit or twig stoves.

[Malto]

Hey everyone,

I'm planning a 2015 PCT thru-hike. I hiked the AT in 2013 in 115 days (109 hiking days, 6 zeros). I'm no stranger to thru-hiking but I've never been west of Colorado and I'm wondering what conditions/technicalities of the PCT I need to know about.

Basically, here are my questions:

1) How hard is water to find in the southern section of the trail?
Not hard at all. Well marked on apps and maps. Never carried more than 4 liters.

2) What is an average resupply time (in days)? I never had to pack more than 4 days of food on the AT.
I did high mile days (98 day hike) so my average resupply was typical 3-5 days, 100-150 miles. My longest was coming out of Kennedy Meadows which was a seven day carry to VVR. BUT, that was only because I had solid snow through Sierra, otherwise that would have been a 5 day carry to MTR. I was Lao very picky on resupply points and mostly relied on points close to the trail, especially in the south.

3) What map set/app should I use on trail?
Take your pick, it's a map. I used halfmile as my only guide/app/map set and was fine. Others work equally well.

4) For those of you who have hiked both AT and PCT, what changes do I need to make in gear? I've been told to go down to a 0˙ bag (instead of my 20˙). I want to go pretty lightweight, can I get away with a 48L pack instead of a 65L?

Dont know know who told you to take a zero bag but that was bad advice. Most will take a 20 degree quilt or bag.


Thanks,

LongGone
Appalachian Trail
Georgia > Maine 2013

See reaponses in bold

[garlic08]

I hiked the PCT before the AT so my outlook is skewed, but what all the "normal" hikers said above sounds right on.

My AT pace was little stronger than my PCT pace (20 mpd) and I thought the AT was easier than the PCT, but I think it's normal that your first long hike is the hardest one.

Good luck on the PCT. It's a different trail, different experience, and I hope you'll love it.

[Zippy Morocco]

1) How hard is water to find in the southern section of the trail? No problem at all. Just had to carry a lot sometimes. The Halfmile water report was always right.

2) What is an average resupply time (in days)? I never had to pack more than 4 days of food on the AT.
I don't think that I ever had to go more than 5 or 6 days. My longest was 7 by choice. The resupplies didn't seem drastically different thenthe amount I chose to resupply on the AT. One thing that really surprised me on the PCT was how easy it was to put in large mile days. Maybe it was because it was my second hike but the tread is certainly much kinder on the PCT. My average was probably 4.5 days.

3) What map set/app should I use on trail?
Halfmile maps and Halmile's App are good. Guthook's App is amazing and worth the money.

4) For those of you who have hiked both AT and PCT, what changes do I need to make in gear? I've been told to go down to a 0˙ bag (instead of my 20˙). I want to go pretty lightweight, can I get away with a 48L pack instead of a 65L?

I went from a Western Mountaineering Ultralite to a zpacks quilt. Both were 20 degrees and both were sufficient for either trail. Overall I was much warmer on the PCT but I did start March 5th in 2013 on the AT. Very cold year. I think that it is great to have a good setup for cowboy camping. For me it was a 5 oz. bivy and a cuben tarp. I hardly ever needed a tarp. Others would sleep on their ground cloth or Tyvek. Tyvek was probably the most common. Chances are your tent/tarp will see little use until Washington. Also, sun glasses and chap stick are wonderful! The sun in the desert is no joke. Develop a good plan to stay protected. For many that means a good hat, umbrella, vented pants, sun shirt, and sun gloves. I use all but the last one of those and will probably bring sun gloves for my next desert hike.

Are you the same Long Gone that I met in Maine. Were you hiking around NBC and Hurricane?

[bamboo bob]

I think the New England AT is way harder than almost all of the PCT. I did hike the AT first but I've hiked a lot afterwards too.I carried 7 liters in SOCAL at one point. I used PCT Atlas because it fit in my pocket. It was years later so a lot of gear was aged out.

[Wolf - 23000]

LongGone,
I’ve hiked both the AT and the PCT multiple times. A good piece of advice someone told me years ago is he was carrying no more weight on the PCT as he did on the AT. I’ve heard a lot of B.S. stories about the PCT back in the 1990s and even in the present. Who ever told you, that you needed a 0 degree did not know what they were talking about.
First water. Water is not as common on the PCT compare to the AT. In fact over half my total weight was water on the PCT hiking through the desert part. After the desert it wasn't as bad. The first 700 miles is desert and yes it does rain in the desert. When hiking in the desert, hike smart. What that means is simple hike early in the morning and late in to the night. Don’t worry about camping always around water when it is the coolest part of the day. Instead, make it a point to hike the water source around noon and rest. Hiking during the hottest part of the day is only going to make it that much harder to travel and require you to carry more water.

I was able to resupply still every 5 days throughout most of the PCT. The exception was hiking through the Sierra that I needed 7 days.
I used a home made databook on all three thru-hikes similar to the postholer. http://postholer.com/databook/ I used the postholer in both planning a PCT thru-hiker for several other hikes and even myself for a couple smaller hikes. I thought it was great. There are other sources but I would not recommend any of them. Others can disagree with me but if the writer is still asking “What gear do you carry?”, it not something you would expect from someone claiming to have hiked thousands of miles.
If you have some experience hiking, yes you can get away with a 48L pack fairly easy. There are a lot of B.S. on much you need to carry. The truth is you can travel UL fairly easy.

Wolf

[CarlZ993]

LongGone: I've sectioned hiked from Lake Tahoe to Whitney Portal during the optimum hiking season (much later in the year that what a thru-hiker would experience & almost zero snow). With your hiking pace, you should be able to bypass some of the more bothersome Central Sierra resupplies (Bridgeport/Kennedy Meadows North). You'll have to deal w/ a bear canister & an ice-ax in the Sierras. The rangers have been known to check hiker's pack in the backcountry to see if they're carrying a canister (happened to me).

I haven't hiked Southern California. But, I've hiked a lot of desert stuff over the years (AZ, UT, & TX). Watch out for hyponatremia (excessive loss of electrolytes but not water; aka 'Water Intoxication'). Pretzels work good for adding additional sodium in your daily diet (Rangers in the Grand Canyon highly recommend them).

Enjoy your hike.

Zman (Saw you once on the AT in 2013 & then your were 'Long Gone.' )

[fiddlehead]

. When hiking in the desert, hike smart. What that means is simple hike early in the morning and late in to the night. Don’t worry about camping always around water when it is the coolest part of the day. Instead, make it a point to hike the water source around noon and rest. Hiking during the hottest part of the day is only going to make it that much harder to travel and require you to carry more water.

Wolf

And THAT ^ is the best advice to handle the scarcity of water on the PCT.
4:30 AM is a good start.
Get 12 miles in (or so) by 11AM, hopefully near water. Rest up, eat, kick back in some shade (hopefully) and drink a LOT.
Then head out about 4PM and do another 12 on almost no water.
You get to camp with night falling, use a litre for overnight, and do it again tomorrow.
You can do 24 miles that way on 3 litres.
It works!

You just have to get up early and sit around during the heat of the day.
Up to you.

[garlic08]

I learned a lot about desert hiking on the PCT. I started out carrying six liters of water for a 20 mile hike, and would arrive well-hydrated, and a little pissed off, with plenty extra. Then I started doing what Wolf and Fiddlehead said and found I could hike those 20 miles easily, in hot weather, with three liters. By the time I got to the Hat Creek Rim, a hot, 35-mile water carry in central CA, I did that comfortably with four liters. And that makes more of a difference in pack weight than any gear choice you might make. A liter of water weighs more than anything in my pack, including the pack. I applied those lessons to the AT and often carried no water at all on that trail, leading to a very light load most of the time.

I met a couple of very experienced desert hikers on the Arizona Trail. One was routinely hiking the 40+ mile hot waterless stretches on that trail with three liters of water--amazing to me. Another carried more than twice that, and would arrive somewhat dehydrated. Different hikers have different metabolisms and needs, and the trick is finding what works efficiently for you.

[quasarr]

Like garlic said, different people need a different amount of water. So it is more useful to know the distance between water sources. In southern CA, it is very common to see 20 mile dry stretches. A typical amount in the desert was 5L for 20 miles. (I always took 6 but I drank more water than most people) And between Tehachapi and KM, there are two water caches that may not be stocked next year. Without the cache it is as much as 25-30 miles.

The longest stretch, Hat Creek Rim (IIRC it was 29 miles? garlic maybe you went straight from Old Station without getting water at Subway Cave?) I brought seven (!) liters because I was so paranoid. But I hiked it at night and I only drank 4L hahaha! It was actually pleasant at night. I agree with everyone else, if I did the trail again I would night hike a lot more, or at least early morning / late evening hiking. My trail buddy said she "hated" night hiking but I think in the desert I definitely hated day hiking more.

[quasarr]

PS I forgot to mention, as someone who did the AT in 115 days I think you will have no trouble with the PCT. You were averaging almost 20 miles per day on hiking days, so on the PCT you could probably do 25-30. The walking part really is easier, the PCT is almost never steeper than 500 ft/ mile of elevation, while on the AT it is very common to see 1000 ft/ mile.

I also think going light is a good idea. As others have said, it rarely rains out there and I also cowboy camped almost every night. So what's the point of hauling a 4lb tent you never use, when a 1 lb tarp keeps you just as dry when you need it? You can probably get your base weight to 10 lbs without spending too much money. And a 20* bag is fine, who told you that you need a zero? That's overkill.

[LongGone2013]

Are you the same Long Gone that I met in Maine. Were you hiking around NBC and Hurricane?

Yeah I am. What was your trailname and where did I meet you?

LG

[Zippy Morocco]

Yeah I am. What was your trailname and where did I meet you?

LG

I went by Zippy and was hiking with Diddo. We met in Gorham at the hostel and then saw you once again in another town. We ended summiting the same day as Hurricane and NBC. Enjoy the PCT! I had a great time there.

[Dogwood]

Welcome to the Tribe. Hiking can be addictive as it seems you know. Hey, might as well have good addictions if we're to have addictions.

Some very good desert hiking techniques factoring in the condensed version of savvy PCT water logistics shared that should be considered as part of your PCT hiking experiences. Gaining a better understanding of PCT/desert water logistics will serve you well on hikes that follow.

The rest of your questions have been answered and opinionated on ad nauseam in many books, PCT/hiking web sites, and in personal hiking commentary. Understanding where and how to access this abundant beta AND how to personally apply it to your hikes is part of you becoming familiar with long distance hiking as well.

[takethisbread]

I've got some questions as to my planned pct thruhike in comparison to my AT thruhike.
I preface my questions by admitting I have done a few hikes on the pct and have hiked the JMT and sections of pct in Oregon and Washington. Love it much more than the AT (apart from the people aspect) . I've only hiked the pct sections in summer.
1. In April and May how cold does it get at night?
2. Will a bear canister fit inside a 35 liter pack? I'm thinking mld prophet size pack? I've hiked on the pct with a ula catalyst and a osprey exos 58 and those packs will easily carry canister but I want a smaller pack.
3. Clothing. I hate long sleeve shirts and hats. I plan on carrying shorts, very light rain pants that I can hike in, t shirt, fleece, puffy jacket, 3 pair socks, and a cap for sleeping on cold nights. I really like no hat hiking , if I must is carry a baseball cap.
5. My sleeping bag is a sea to summit 46 degree 12oz that I plan on adding a liner to , maybe getting an extra 10-15 degrees out of it. Can that work?
Thank u to all



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[Miner]

1) In Southern California, it can and will drop below freezing. It isn't rare to wake up to frost on your sleeping bag if cowboy camping. It also isn't all desert as you hike in some significant mountains (over 9000ft) so you may or may not experience some snow.
2) I can barely fit a black Garcia bear can (the type the Forest Service and Yosemite rent out) in my frameless ULA CDT and carry it comfortably. But I have to be careful how I pack around it if I don't want to distort the shape of the pack against my back from almost flat to round (which will cause shoulder pain).
3) When hiking in direct sunlight with no shade for hours, it can actually be cooler to wear long sleeves and pants. Hat keeps the sun from baking the to of your head. All of that will alow you to use less sunscreen. My desert outfit has mesh along the pant legs and the sides and arms of the shirt (Railrider brand clothing). That said, people have hiked in shorts and short sleeves, but as a SoCal native who often hikes in the desert, I don't. But I also don't turn a dark bronze in the sun either.
4) My experience is a liner does not add 10-15 degrees. Unless you are talking about a really heavy liner, in which case, there goes your weight savings. I used a 20F and recommend that. A 30F can work for some who don't sleep cold and will finish the trail in early September (think snow after that). I'd veto a 40F bag. And no way an almost 50F bag is going to work. Other then in NorCal, most nights will be below 50F with many below 40F. Let's not even talk about the 20F temperatures I had.

[quasarr]

3. Clothing. I hate long sleeve shirts and hats. I plan on carrying shorts, very light rain pants that I can hike in, t shirt, fleece, puffy jacket, 3 pair socks, and a cap for sleeping on cold nights. I really like no hat hiking , if I must is carry a baseball cap.

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You say you have hiked sections of the PCT, do you have any experience in Southern CA? SoCal is very hot, dry, and exposed for hundreds of miles. I think hiking in rain pants (even light ones) is a very bad idea and you will get way too hot. Why not just wear regular pants? You don't really need rain pants in SoCal anyway. You can also get away with shorts because the sun won't hit your legs quite as strong. Short sleeves are OK but you should use sunscreen.

I think going hatless is also a bad idea. The merciless sun will beat down on your head all day long. Take the baseball hat! And tuck a bandanna under it to shade your ears and neck, unless you want them to be totally sunburned. Another option is to use an umbrella. Then you can shade your upper body without wearing a hat.