Mt Madison (NH) Rescue

[Second Hand]

I get chills just reading this thread. I've canceled two hikes in the Northern Presidentials this winter and I actually canceled one along the Franconia Ridge line today because of the extreme cold and wind we are experiencing.
I was kicking myself all day thinking I should have gone. It's such a hassle to organize gear, get partners together and get up there, you hate to have to shut it down. This a chilling reminder that you can never be too careful in those Mountains this time of year.

My thoughts are with her and her family. I can relate to what pushed her up the Mountain, I just wish she made a better choice... I can't imagine breaking tree line in those conditions and pushing forward.

[MuddyWaters]

Very sad.
However, a fool could see current weather coming.
I have little doubt the fact she had a " PLB " weighed into her decision to go. I say this because it is a trend today.

I dont know what kind of "PLB" she had, but real PLBs have homing beacon. Possible that SAR has no means to take advantage of that though.

[Feral Bill]

Not to defend her decision, but all of us make serious, often potentially fatal mistakes. It can be in the mountains, on the water, or crossing the street. Let's learn from this incident while being respectful.

[Slo-go'en]

The news report said her husband dropped her off at 5 AM and the beacon was activated at 3:30 PM. She had already been out there some time before calling for help. Sad story.

That info puts a different slant on the situation. The valley way is pretty packed down but with the recent snow, wind and the time she left, she was probably breaking trail the whole way up and it probably got real deep around tree line. That's a LOT of work. I bet she didn't get to the hunt until noon or later. It's likely at that point she made a fatal error and decided to summit Madison.

I can't imagine she'd try to do the traverse in those conditions but thought, "Hey, I'm already up here, I might as well do one summit". Then on the way down, tired and fighting an intense head wind, she went off course too far to the east and ended up around Star Lake. In those white out conditions you follow the path of least resistance and that is usually the wrong way. There are a number of trails which Cris-cross the col and Star Lake would be a little protected from the wind, so that could be why she ended up there.

[Second Hand]

I agree with Federal Bill.
I've made dozens of poor decisions that in retrospect I would take back. The risk is part of what is so intriguing about climbing.

This is an unfortunate incident and something we should all take heed of.

[Slo-go'en]

Very sad.
I dont know what kind of "PLB" she had, but real PLBs have homing beacon. Possible that SAR has no means to take advantage of that though.

The news report said the signal was fluctuating wildly, give positions in a one mile radius. The strong wind and blowing snow no doubt was causing the GPS to act up.

[lkmi]

Not sure anyone posted a link to a story. here's an AP story: http://www.sunherald.com/2015/02/16/...hiker-who.html

[MuddyWaters]

The news report said the signal was fluctuating wildly, give positions in a one mile radius. The strong wind and blowing snow no doubt was causing the GPS to act up.

A real plb has 121 mhz homing beacon, it doesnt rely only on transmitted coordinates, which can be affected by terrain. This is why im interested if the press used the term "plb" loosely, as if interchangeable with spot, inreach, etc. Which it isnt.

There are gps engines, and then there are better gps engines as well. Some wont hold a fix under tree cover, etc, some will.

[Slo-go'en]

A real plb has 121 mhz homing beacon, it doesnt rely only on transmitted coordinates, which can be affected by terrain. This is why im interested if the press used the term "plb" loosely, as if interchangeable with spot, inreach, etc. Which it isnt.

It was likely a SPOT device. The 121 MHz PLB would have a limited range and I believe used primarily to locate avalanche victims.

[BradMT]

A colossally stupid decision to continue above timberline (where the yellow signs clearly warn of possible death)... I can't even fathom the "thinking" that caused one to continue on in those conditions... truly unbelievable. Can't be blamed on oxygen deprivation.

Now I'm just speechless...

[squeezebox]

Sorry this happened, I wonder if she was carrying any -60* gear, or 0* or -20* stuff instead, and hoping for the best instead of prepping for the worst.
Remember the same thjing could happen to us with 40* gear in 20













































































Sorry to hear this happened. I wonder what kind of gear she had. 0* or -20* gear in -40 just isn't enough. And why did her husband not refuse. It obviously takes some time to learn winter hiking. Solo winter hiking in deep winter sounds crazy, sorry Tipi . Just remember the same thing could happen to you with 40* gear in 20 or teen temps. Cold weather is not for UL
Again know your limits!!!

[Driver8]

The news report said the signal was fluctuating wildly, give positions in a one mile radius. The strong wind and blowing snow no doubt was causing the GPS to act up.

The SAR source said on TV that the PLB signal was moving around within a one-mile radius during at least some of the time frame. That could be because the hiker was moving, trying to get to safety. I'm sure when Androscoggin Valley SAR does a full incident report a lot more information will become available. Such a sad story.

[MuddyWaters]

A colossally stupid decision to continue above timberline (where the yellow signs clearly warn of possible death)... I can't even fathom the "thinking" that caused one to continue on in those conditions... truly unbelievable. Can't be blamed on oxygen deprivation.

Now I'm just speechless...

Hypothermia has a reputation for adversely affecting sound decision making ability.

[ny breakfast]

I've pushed my limits, I've backed out to hike another day witch is very hard to do at times, we all make are own judgments, the weather in the northeast is like no other, the weather reports have been changing by the hour recently, hiking new England states is easy as long as the weather is easy. hiking new England is the hardest hiking you will ever experience as long as you end up in the worst weather ever. the weather just changes that fast. my thoughts go out to the family..... please be respectful

[peakbagger]

Assuming she went up Valley Way solo, It could have reasonably taken 6 hours to break trail to Madison Hut. Even if there was broken trail, the winds would have drifted in the trail especially the last 3/4 of a mile to the hut. From there its pretty well sheltered from the wind. At Madison hut there is some shelter from the wind as it is in a depressed bowl. From there the hike up Madison starts to get wind exposure rapidly until the trail breaks the ridge line where its full exposure along south side of the ridgeline until finally jumping up to the ridgeline to the summit. At that point the wind would have been on her back. Then hiking back to the col she would have been full face into the wind. From Madison Col, the choice is Gulfside Trail which get full wind exposure of Star Lake Trail. Star Lake trail is sheltered from the wind but is steep and difficult to follow especially as by noon on Sunday the winds were cranking up and the lee side of the ridge would have had near white out conditions. The Star Lake trail skirts several steep cliffs that would require technical equipment and with recent snow I expect there would be deep snow and slabbing making uphill progress difficult if not impossible. The problem with Star Lake trail is that it slabs the headwall to Madison Gulf, If a hiker doesn't follow the trail and slab up, they get sucked down into Madison Gulf. I expect that even someone in peak condition could easily be exhausted. That exhaustion can rapidly switch to hypothermia and from then on, thinking isn't clear.

A contributing issue was that Sunday morning was cold but fairly pleasant down low, the north country missed the bulk of the snow from the coastal storm. The forecasts were quite insistent that there would be high winds but I expect the conditions at the base led to a decision to give it a try.

By the way, I expect this upcoming weekend, there will be 20 or 30 groups of hikers heading up the same way. If the conditions are less severe its a great hike and quite popular. It all comes down to looking at the forecast and knowing your limitations.

[Another Kevin]

A colossally stupid decision to continue above timberline (where the yellow signs clearly warn of possible death)... I can't even fathom the "thinking" that caused one to continue on in those conditions... truly unbelievable. Can't be blamed on oxygen deprivation.

Now I'm just speechless...

The yelllow signs will be buried by now. A buddy of mine took this picture on Eisenhower about a month ago before the first big Northeaster hit. There have been a few feet more snow since then. I think the yellow 'alpine region' warning sign is lower down on that same post.



Yes, going up there was still a monumentally bad decision. But I've made a few (survivable) monumentally bad decisions in my time. If one of my mistakes catches up with me, I'm sure that there will be a chorus of people saying how stupid I was. After all, I have climbed Northeast 4000-footers in winter, slept rough in subzero temps, hiked solo in the central Adirondacks, and sane people do none of these things.

I'm not about to set about castigating her for her bad decision, particularly since few of us have anything to learn from it. Perhaps when more details come out, we'll have more to learn about escaping UNFORECAST bad conditions, but I don't think that this tragedy yet has much value as a cautionary tale.

Oh, by the way, a 'real' PLB has multiple signaling technologies. It sends a 406 MHz data packet through the weather satellites, announcing its activation and giving a GPS position. In the event that GPS is wonky, the 406 MHz ping can also be located by Doppler triangulation on board the low-orbit weather satellites, although that technique can take several hours for a good fix. Finally, it sends a warble (or 'PLB' in Morse code, depending on the generation of the unit) on the 121.5 MHz aeronautical distress channel, so it can be heard by a passing aircraft (and CAP has the gear to locate it precisely). It can be triangulated using a handheld receiver with a directional antenna. And it has a strobe light on board. The transmitters are much more powerful than, say, a SPOT.

I've participated in 'fox hunting' exercises for training in finding a radio beacon. (Using 146.565 MHz, not 121.500 - we weren't lighting up the SAR network!) And I carry a 'real' 406/121.5 MHz PLB whenever I'm out in deep winter, or planning to go off trail, or solo.

[BradMT]

I've been up the Presidential s (Adams, Jefferson, Madison, Washington) many times on winter climbs in sub zero temps. Yellow signs have always been visible on every route I've taken. If the wind is 100 mph when you hit treeline and you don't turn back you're completely without the skills to have been there in the first place, yellow signs or not.

I'm at a loss as to the thinking that went into this... hypothermia? It should have been obvious well in advance of hitting treeline the conditions required her to turn around and head down the mountain. No, I don't buy the hypothermia line of thinking.

The Presidential's are too accessible to too large a population of people, hence the death rate on them.

Sad... so sad.

[colorado_rob]

Yes, going up there was still a monumentally bad decision. But I've made a few (survivable) monumentally bad decisions in my time. If one of my mistakes catches up with me, I'm sure that there will be a chorus of people saying how stupid I was. After all, I have climbed Northeast 4000-footers in winter, slept rough in subzero temps, hiked solo in the central Adirondacks, and sane people do none of these things.

True that, and at times, I'm just as insane.

Not sure if you all read her brief bio info in the other thread's link (she was born in Siberia, after all), but she was apparently a real adventurer and hung it out there. who knows, maybe she was training for a very high peak somewhere. We actively seek out very harsh conditions on a regular basis for our Big mountain training climbs, and just last weekend climbed a CO 14er in extreme conditions ourselves. This one, sadly, just got away from her.

My son is just about her age and has infinite, unbounded self confidence. Didn't we all at that age?

Give her a break, and morn for her family's loss and quit calling her a fool. We all do foolish things now and then, do we not?

[peakbagger]

There is a visible yellow USFS warning sign about 100 yards in the woods from the Appalachia trailhead, it was not covered by snow, there is a second yellow sign up near Madison Hut.

[SteelCut]

Give her a break, and morn for her family's loss and quit calling her a fool. We all do foolish things now and then, do we not?

You make a great point; however, the counter to this is that her actions endanger the life of the rescuer's went out to rescue her (and others like her). It's happened before in the Whites where a rescuer was killed on a winter rescue. Enough said.

I do pass along my condolences to her husband, family, and friends.