Ursak

[Connie]

I got an email, today.

petition "Charles Cuvelier Chief Ranger at Yosemite NP and administrators of Sequoia and Kings Canyon NP: Approve Ursack 2014 S29 for use in your parks."

Here's the link:


http://www.change.org/p/charles-cuve...-in-your-parks

The Ursak is approved in Alaska.

It would be helpful, if approved at Yosemite.

If approved at Yosemite, widespread approval could be the result.

[QiWiz]

Please add your support to Connie's (and mine) so that we can protect food (and bears) with a lightweight solution. I've used Ursacks for years and they work very well. Much lighter than any canister, and less expensive or similarly expensive depending on canister brand.

[Dochartaigh]

Signed.....

[T-Rx]

I have used an Ursak for several years and love it. It won't make my thru trip however due to weight. I am exchanging it for a Z Packs blast.

[MuddyWaters]

Ursack has no business being used anywhere there is no tree between about 8"-18" to tie to. The cord is too short for most large trees as may be found in yosemite, and the idea of tieing to a rock is a farce.

Please put the bears over your own desire not to carry any weight.

[Connie]

Ursak works fine with Alaska Kodiak bears.

The cord length isn't the defining feature.

I reside next to Glacier National Park. I have an adolescent grizzley bear living on my lower 10-acres.

I very much care that bears have to be shot because the bear has become habituated to our food.

Ursak works.

[MuddyWaters]

Cord length is a defining feature, it is 6 ft long. Calculate the latgest tree you can tie it around, hint pi=3.1415 , and you cant tie it around a rock at all. Useless above treeline. Yosemite has enough problems with people using cannisters improperly due to sheer numbers of people, they dont need anything more finicky and harder to use.

Consider the bears, not ourselves.

[Malto]

Cord length is a defining feature, it is 6 ft long. Calculate the latgest tree you can tie it around, hint pi=3.1415 , and you cant tie it around a rock at all. Useless above treeline. Yosemite has enough problems with people using cannisters improperly due to sheer numbers of people, they dont need anything more finicky and harder to use.

Consider the bears, not ourselves.

i have been on dozens of Sierra trips including the High Route and I can't think of a time when there wasn't a suitable tree that could be used where I camped. Most people aren't camping above tree line. Agree with point on the rock.

[MuddyWaters]

i have been on dozens of Sierra trips including the High Route and I can't think of a time when there wasn't a suitable tree that could be used where I camped. Most people aren't camping above tree line. Agree with point on the rock.

No doubt you can find something somewhere. But most hikers, especially jmt newbies, wouldnt go out or their way.

Further, if it even gives them a taste, they may keep coming back. Parks and areas subject to high intensive usage are totally different from more remote areas where people are not camping in the same places every night, imo.

[Connie]

What are these objections?

Ursak
http://www.ursack.com/how-to-use/

Where does it say tie to a rock?

If you don't like the cord length, the cord is easily enough changed out for a longer cord.

My residence is 1-mile from Glacier National Park, Montana.

I do trail grooming in The Bob Marshall Wilderness.

Before I moved out to Montana, my mountainclimbing and backpacking was in Olympic National Park and the North Cascades before is was designated a park.

Ropeleader at 15 years old. 50 years experience.


Do you work for one of the bear canister mfg?

[MuddyWaters]

What are these objections?

Ursak
http://www.ursack.com/how-to-use/

Where does it say tie to a rock?

If you don't like the cord length, the cord is easily enough changed out for a longer cord.

My residence is 1-mile from Glacier National Park, Montana.

I do trail grooming in The Bob Marshall Wilderness.

Before I moved out to Montana, my mountainclimbing and backpacking was in Olympic National Park and the North Cascades before is was designated a park.

Ropeleader at 15 years old. 50 years experience.


Do you work for one of the bear canister mfg?

Ha Ha, no , I dont work for a bear can mfg.
I just know how clueless many people going into yosemite are, many many have never hiked before.
The rope, is an integral part of the device. People would substitute something different.
Never mind that they didnt test it tied to a tree, probably for a reason.

The device is filled with pitfalls, particularly for stupid people, of which there are a mighty lot in the world.

I am a UL hiker, I carried a bear can last yr on JMT, didnt bother me one bit. It is a system that has been proven to have substantially reduced bear-human interactions in a high use environment like Yosemite. Changes should not be taken lightly. Most people only care about themselves. Do you hear anyone proposing limited testing to insure it works well and people can manage it? Nope. Just "Approve it now dammit!" People that are only concerned with themselves.

I would not be sad if they required cannisters in many places on the AT either. It would solve some problems.

How many of the people that would use this, have really considered what they would do with their food ruined, chewed on and slobbered on by a bear, or carried off completely, in the backcountry several days from a road? Even if bear doesnt get your food, you can still lose.

[Connie]

It is tested tied to a tree.

There are videos, starting at that link I provided.

The website is there.

All people are clueless, until someone provides information they need.

I was a resident of California 1971-1999.

I know very well you cannot hike in Yosemite without a permit: part of getting a permit is signing off on the "orientation" provided by the park personnel.

It is approved in Alaska.

Are you clueless what bears are in Alaska?

Chewed on? Slobbered? They had to make it a "play toy" for bears in confinement to test it.

The teeth do not penetrate the Ursak.

For many people, the Opsak alone is sufficient because odor does not escape the Opsak.

The fact is, bears do not have particularly good eyesight; bears respond to food odors.

Opsak was developed for special units in the military: odors do not escape.

In practice, there is no reason for a bear to "take notice" of an Ursak, and, will just pass it by.

[Connie]

1. Cord? Look closely at the Ursak video, at the link. The cord is laced thru the top.

If you think you need more cord, ask for more cord when you place an order.

That, or, get the same material cord and lace it thru yourself.

No "bear bag" sold has as much cord: ZPacks, MLD for example. Is a bear chewing and slobbering on that?

2. Testing? The Ursak has been around many years, with success.

Ursak has got it "dialed in".

[Connie]

Someone got up a petition. I support it.

Here is where to sign the petition:

http://www.change.org/p/charles-cuve...-in-your-parks

[pickNgrin]

After watching the video on the Ursack website, one concern I would have is…. if he gets it down you probably won't ever see that bag again. This is because he can easily grab onto it and carry it off. So in that sense it is kind of moot as to whether or not he can actually gets into the bag. Either way you lost your food.

[pickNgrin]

After watching the video on the Ursack website, one concern I would have is…. if he gets it down you probably won't ever see that bag again. This is because he can easily grab onto it and carry it off. So in that sense it is kind of moot as to whether or not he can actually gets into the bag. Either way you lost your food.

After reading the FAQ on the website, I am assured that this is not a problem!

[Connie]

Bear bagging is like that, so are bear canisters: bear knocks it around, rolls away. Ravine.

I am not selling Ursaks.

If you have an Ursak, if you like the Ursak, I have the link to support approval by Yosemite National Park.

The history of protective food containers began at Yosemite National Park.

[Connie]

If you have a Ursak, or, like Ursak please support this change.org petition to Yosemite National Park.

The history of food protective containers began with Yosemite National Park.

http://www.change.org/p/charles-cuve...-in-your-parks

[Sirsnappy09]

I am not a fan or advocate of the ursack s
For some of the reasons above and a few others. I will continue us to use my canister even if they do allow the ursack. They could take it if they got it loose but I doubt it. I wouldnt risk it though. But hey, everybody likes something different. If the weight of a canister bothers you that much I would say avoid those trails. They really don't weigh that Much unless you just like to count grams. A couple pounds is nothing to me for that added protection of my food.

[DLP]

DLP, that was convincing?

Cord length is a defining feature, it is 6 ft long. Calculate the latgest tree you can tie it around, hint pi=3.1415 , and you cant tie it around a rock at all. Useless above treeline. Yosemite has enough problems with people using canisters improperly due to sheer numbers of people, they don't need anything more finicky and harder to use.

Consider the bears, not ourselves.

I find this to be a very convincing argument. I thought of all the times I've been above tree line. And the Goldilocks factor of finding the tree that is "just right"... not too stout and not too thin. And the many, many idiots I've seen with food improperly hung or stored.

I've used a bear can at least 100 times. I've woken up in the morning with bear foot prints and poo 10' from my tent. (I think that they walk on silent kitty cat paws as I've slept right thru it). The bear can is always EXACTLY where I left it. I've never once had it moved or molested. Of course, there is a first time for everything and it could roll into a ravine or lake. But thus far, my personal experience is that the bears come looking for easy pickings and leave after seeing the bear canister.

Granted, I don't have any personal experience with Ursack. Maybe I'd use it and love it.

But I'm kind of loving my bear cans. Weirdly enough, I'm looking forward to going out this summer with the beast of a 3 lbs Garcia can because it is also an excellent seat. And I never, ever think in the middle of the night, "Oh krap! Is that a bear trying to get my food?!?!?!". It is "Set it (100' away) and Forget it" and go to sleep.

If this was debate club, I'd go with Muddy Water's argument. Sorry, Connie. You make good points, but I'd give this one to MW.