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  1. #1
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    Question Pros and cons of using Zpacks Pointy Hat versus Kavu Chilba Hat?

    For anyone who has worn one or the other (or especially both), what would you say the differences are between the two:
    Zpacks: http://www.zpacks.com/accessories/pointy_hat.shtml
    Kavu: http://www.backcountry.com/kavu-chillba-hat

    I see that the Kavu hat is cheaper (pro)
    Zpacks requires a visor/cap to go with it (making it even more expensive that Kavu; con), but the visor can be worn seperately (flexibility; pro) and the pointy hat can be a seat cushion (pro). Also, Zpacks mentions their hat is shorter in the back, designed to keep it from hitting your backpack (pro).

    Anyone have trouble with the Kavu bumping a backpack during hiking? Also, backcountry did not specify the weight of the Kavu, anyone know that?

    Any comments on either would be appreciated.

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    I've used a bee keepers white mesh helmet for many years as a sun hat. Smear white caulk in the front brim for sun blindness. But if it stays wet too long it will collapse. Must be too much like a straw hat with a thin coat of paint. Maybe a couple of coats of varnish. Difficult to carry without smashing.

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    Big hats interfere with big packs. You will notice how small Joes pack is.

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    I think part of what you are missing is that Samurai Joe used his hat as part of his sleep system. The biggest "pro" is that it opens up to flat.

    During the height of SUL when people were using bagel sized pieces of foam to sleep on Joe figured he could leave the umbrella at home and carry this hat/pad combo at half the weight too.

    If you aren't using it as a sit pad or part of the sleep system I am not sure what reason there is to use either of these.
    If you just want sun protection then there are many straw hats or umbrellas that will do the job better, maybe even lighter.

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    I apologize for not being more specific: I am about 95% interested in one of these as a RAIN hat. I hate rain hoods and would rather wear a hat, would love to hear opinions on these 2 items in that respect.

    I know sun will be an issue for a little bit (and I will wear hat/sunscreen when needed), but I tan really well and after about 2 weeks of sun exposure, I won't be prone to sunburn.

    I plan to hammock, and dont see the pad as particularly useful in that respect. And I've never had a problem sitting on a rock or log or dirt or shelter step or whatever, so seat cushion isn't really a big selling point to me.


    As always everyone, thank you for sharing!

  6. #6
    Registered User Just Bill's Avatar
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    The Kavu is only a DWR- it will wet out in an hour or so.

    More importantly they are both CCF. They will get hot (you're wearing a sleeping pad on your head) and CCF is a vapor barrier- so you will sweat it out.
    If you're on the water or planning on it for cool weather they might be okay.

    I prefer an umbrella backpacking, but paddling I usually wear a Columbia hat something like this- http://www.llbean.com/llb/shop/68383
    I think you'll overheat and you'll be happier with a basic WPB wide brim hat. The other nice thing about them is that you can comfortably wear a cheap headnet too since the brim keeps it off your face.

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    Just Bill, thanks for the insight. So:

    The Kavu is not what I'm looking for.

    The Zpacks Pointy Hat may suit me, but at $65+ I am hesitant to take a chance.

    I may look into an umbrella, even though I never thought of myself as an umbrella user.

    One thing I do know: I don't like wearing hoods in the rain, or having a sweaty head from it.

    Thanks again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jneedler View Post
    Just Bill, thanks for the insight. So:

    The Kavu is not what I'm looking for.

    The Zpacks Pointy Hat may suit me, but at $65+ I am hesitant to take a chance.

    I may look into an umbrella, even though I never thought of myself as an umbrella user.

    One thing I do know: I don't like wearing hoods in the rain, or having a sweaty head from it.

    Thanks again.
    As far as I know, Joe will take anything back, even custom orders. All you risk is shipping.
    It provides coverage and good ventillation, and insulates from the sun. It should not be a hot hat.

    If it was part if sleep pad, it might be worth it. As a separate item, I think its kind of heavy for headwear.
    (Joes original fit into a cutout in his sleeping pad I was told)

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    I tan really well and after about 2 weeks of sun exposure, I won't be prone to sunburn.

    But you will always be subject to skin cancer. I'm the same as you and would tan rather than burn but I've had two skin cancers removed already.

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    You can buy a Frogg Toggs hat for about $14.

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    I personally use an old Army Ranger Boonie. Keeps the sun off, stops the rain, and can double as a bucket in a pinch.

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    Owner of a zpacks pointy hat here. It's brilliant in both rain and sun. The tappered back stops it hitting your pack, whether fully loaded or not. Being insulated it stays cool in the heat. I've worn mine in the middle of Australian summer without issue. I swear it is cooler under there than without it.

    I might be imagining it but I reckon bugs are less likely to fly straight onto your face too as they have to go under the lip rather than straight down. You can throw it inside your sleeping bag for a little bit more warmth and padding.

    Put a couple of stick on loops on a small mattress and clip the pre-exisiting carabiners on the hat straight. Like the OP, I hate wearing a hood as it blocks my hearing and makes my head hot. In short, the pointy hat is a winner.


    IMG_0902.JPG

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    Forget the hat and go Umbrella you won't regret it. This is the one I own. http://www.euroschirm.com/schirm/Swi..._land=englisch
    "He was a wise man who invented beer." Plato

  14. #14
    PCT, Sheltowee, Pinhoti, LT , BMT, AT, SHT, CDT, TRT 10-K's Avatar
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    I've got a zpacks pointy hat and it's just too hot for me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eljimberino View Post
    ...Being insulated it stays cool in the heat. I've worn mine in the middle of Australian summer without issue. I swear it is cooler under there than without it....
    That's one thing I haven't figured out. If you look at cultures where people live in VERY hot climates, they cover their head with lots of insulation to stay cool. The most extreme example I know of is the Telpek from Turkmenistan. They say wearing half of a sheep on your head keeps you cool when its 120 degrees. Mine looks like this, only a little shaggier. Haven't tried it hiking yet.

    telpek.JPG

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    For some time I've wanted to try the pointy hat but have not been able to get past the geeky look of it and the fact that it needs another cap to 'anchor' it.

    And hiking the green tunnels here in the East it seems that a nylon baseball cap (or nothing at all) will usually suffice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Odd Man Out View Post
    That's one thing I haven't figured out. If you look at cultures where people live in VERY hot climates, they cover their head with lots of insulation to stay cool. The most extreme example I know of is the Telpek from Turkmenistan. They say wearing half of a sheep on your head keeps you cool when its 120 degrees. Mine looks like this, only a little shaggier. Haven't tried it hiking yet.

    telpek.JPG
    Initially I thought you were being facetious. Then I looked up the Talpek hats and see you weren't. Those hats are awesome - and yes, that's the idea.

    Roof insulation keeps the inner house at a constant temperature and the foam in the pointy hat is no different.

    When the sun is beating down you can feel the temperature difference on either side of the foam. The outer side is hot, the inner is cool. There is enough gap between your head and the underside of the pointy hat to let air through, so really you have a umbrella that isn't going to break. It does move around a bit in high winds though.

  18. #18
    PCT, Sheltowee, Pinhoti, LT , BMT, AT, SHT, CDT, TRT 10-K's Avatar
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    Seriously - my wife got me a pointy hat as a gift and I took it on my Superior Hiking Trail hike and I was only able to wear it for 1 day before deciding it was just too hot. There was no ventilation. Temps were in the low 80s, bright sun.

    Put my OR cap back on and it was like instant relief.

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    By far, my favorite head gear, since I also hate hoods, is my Tilley hat or my far cheaper, lighter, slightly cooler, and a bit geeker REI vented Sahara hat.

    Neither of them are designed as rain hats, neither of them keep me completely dry in heavy rain (of course, neither does raingear). Both of them route heavy water off my head and away from my neck. They dry quickly, and are great sun hats. I've used both extensively in heavy persistent Pacific NW rain over many years and they are my go-to hats, rain or shine.
    I'm not lost. I'm exploring.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by eljimberino View Post
    Owner of a zpacks pointy hat here. It's brilliant in both rain and sun. The tappered back stops it hitting your pack, whether fully loaded or not. Being insulated it stays cool in the heat. I've worn mine in the middle of Australian summer without issue. I swear it is cooler under there than without it.

    I might be imagining it but I reckon bugs are less likely to fly straight onto your face too as they have to go under the lip rather than straight down. You can throw it inside your sleeping bag for a little bit more warmth and padding.

    Put a couple of stick on loops on a small mattress and clip the pre-exisiting carabiners on the hat straight. Like the OP, I hate wearing a hood as it blocks my hearing and makes my head hot. In short, the pointy hat is a winner.


    IMG_0902.JPG
    Quote Originally Posted by 10-K View Post
    Seriously - my wife got me a pointy hat as a gift and I took it on my Superior Hiking Trail hike and I was only able to wear it for 1 day before deciding it was just too hot. There was no ventilation. Temps were in the low 80s, bright sun.

    Put my OR cap back on and it was like instant relief.
    I'm thinking you're both right. Perhaps there is a chemist in this thread or a smart fella like Another Kevin who can confirm...

    As the saying also generally goes... 80* in the west is not 80* in the east.

    Hot and dry conditions (Like Australia, Turkmenistan or the CDT/PCT where Joe got this going) the concept makes some sense. You insulate yourself from the glaring rays of the sun in the deserts or from the more powerful rays up high in the desert- like western climate as well as provide shade. While the nice hot dry (and generally breezy) conditions allow any sweating you do underneath to provide evaporative cooling from any sweat you are generating. To go back to the house analogy- your head is the inside of a house on a hot sunny day and the insulation does keep you cooler.

    Hot and humid conditions (Like the AT or the Northwoods where 10-K was) it seems a bust. You aren't roasting under the glaring rays of the sun so much as swimming through the overwhelming humidity trapped in the forest canopy that prevents most evaporative cooling. You already have shade so in this case your best bet is as much breathability as possible to promote what little evaporative cooling you can as well as letting your radiant heat to escape. Your head is the more powerful heat source and sits on the wrong side of the insulation. Back to the house- it's the equivalent of running the furnace in the summer and having all that heat trapped by the roof's insulation.

    That style of hat would produce a small micro climate of it's own- of use in one macro climate but useless in another.

    The exception I could see would be some open water canoeing in the North or Eastern Woods where you would be beyond the canopy, in slightly breezy conditions and the direct sun was a bigger concern.
    Last edited by Just Bill; 09-14-2016 at 08:48.

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