Calories

[Five Tango]

Ok,I went to the pantry and looked at my hiking foods.I would like to know just what one can eat to get 4000 calories?I note that a slice of Spam is 250 calories while the 6.4 oz bags of Starkist Chunk light tuna in Water are 180 calories for the whole bag.But the same bag packed in sunflower oil is 330 calories.Rice I had panned out as 150 calories for a 1/4 cup.I normally prepare it 3/4 cup at a time so that would be 450 calories.Ramen noodles are only 190 for a bag while a bag of Laura Lynn Deluxe Mashed potatoes would yield 400 calories for the 4oz bag.Meanwhile,that old standby known as Kraft Mac and Cheese indicated 750 calories for the 7.25 oz box but you will have to boil 6 cups of water to get the whole box done.So to put this in perspective,the little meal I fixed last week while playing with my gear and testing my back out in the woods was one bag of Spam at 250C. and 3/4 cup rice at 450 calories.That was only 700 calories and took not quite an oz of fuel and 1.5 cups water etc.I don't see how anyone can eat enough or carry enough to not starve to death out there....
Any pointers appreciated.I do know olive oil and pnut butter are fairly high but the pnut butter is pretty heavy.

[BirdBrain]

Pepperoni sticks, peanut butter Snickers, and macadamia nuts.

My 1.3 lb daily diet that is just over 3000 calories is as follows:

2 packs of sugary oatmeal for breakfast (2.19 oz)
4 small peanut butter Snickers for snack (3.56 oz)
2 oz of each for gorp. Cashews, macadamia nuts, and Reese's pieces. (6.00 oz)
2 pepperoni sticks for snack (0.99 oz)
2 knorrs sides for supper. (7.55 oz)

It does not take much imagination to raise those amounts to get to 4000. I find the amounts I take are enough for me. Oh, and I take Via for coffee (0.28 oz) and NUUN (0.32 oz) for electrolyte.

Anything that is liquid is heavy. Anything that requires a container does not ride in my pack. It all goes in zip locks.

[colorado_rob]

I'm 6'0", 165 pounds, and hiking 15 miles per day in the southern Appalachians (where you will be) it takes 4200 calories per day for me to maintain the same weight. If I do 3700 calories/day I lose a pound or two per week. I do no gorging in town but keep up the same regimented diet each day whether on the trail or in town.

Consider two hypothetical hikers who both cover 80 miles in 5 days:

Hiker A hikes twenty miles per day for 4 days and then takes a zero day. Hiker A consumes 3000 calories/day on the four hiking days and gorges 8000 calories during the one zero day -- this is not unusual behavior for a long distance hiker. That makes 20,000 calories total.

Hiker B hikes 16 miles per day for 5 days. Hiker B consumes 4000 calories each of the 5 days for the same 20,000 calorie total.

I am convinced that hiker A will lose more weight than hiker B, even though hiker B has to carry more food weight in his backpack. Running up a calorie deficit on the trail and then gorging in town will make less efficient use of the calories consumed. That's my gut feeling anyway. I understand why people do it but it's not efficient.

I'm also convinced that using the slow-drip method, eating throughout the day, is more efficient than eating on a breakfast, lunch, dinner schedule.

Good analysis, and very true IMHO.

[BirdBrain]

Five Tango,
Freezer bag cook. My 2 cheesy bacon mac n cheese only require a little over a cup of water to cook in a freezer bag in a cozy. It takes me about 15 ml of methanol on the trail to boil the water for my meal and coffee.

[garlic08]

Ok,I went to the pantry and looked at my hiking foods.I would like to know just what one can eat to get 4000 calories?...Any pointers appreciated.I do know olive oil and pnut butter are fairly high but the pnut butter is pretty heavy.

Cut down on the carbs (rice, ramen, potatoes) and load up on fats like nuts and nut butters. Fats have twice the calorie density of carbs (200 Cal/oz vs 100 Cal/oz). Sure, peanut butter is heavy but it has twice the calories of an equivalent weight of bread.

My trail diet consists of lots of nuts, nut butters and cheese. Carbs are mainly oats and tortillas (which have a good amount of shortening (fat) and dried fruit. The average calorie density of the food I pack is about 125 Cal/oz, so my normal load of two pounds per day gives me about 4000 Calories. And all that stuff packs densely and well. On easier sections of trail, like the mid-Atlantic states on the AT with so many restaurants accessible from the trail, I might carry half that.

[Five Tango]

Here is a handy calorie list I found if anyone wants to compare foods.http://www.invive.com/Calorie.html

Believe it or not,I have given up carbs for the most part in daily life and eat a small amount of nuts for breakfast or pnut butter daily.Lean meat and salad at lunch.Meat and three vegetables at night.No starchy or white carbs.In the past 6 years I have lost 60lbs. and maintained my base weight of 145 pounds.The weight loss and exercise plan have helped my back problems quite a bit.

I am hoping to find a partner and get on the trail this summer.Peanuts and pnut butter and bagels and my forgotten friend Snickers will be in the bag!And potato chips!

[ChrisJackson]

Leaving in the morning for a 4 day trip. Just sorted the food. For ea. day, I'll have 1.8 lbs of food. The daily caloric value of that food is 3,210. Plus some olive oil I'm not counting.

[Hot Flash]

Ramen noodles are only 190 for a bag .

No they're not, read the label. They're 190 for HALF the noodle block and HALF the seasoning packet.

[shelb]

Wait!!!! You didn't mention the 12 yo son before... that would be, if anything my son when he was 12, about 9000 calories per day for him alone..... :-)

I agree about the 12 year old needing WAY more!!! When I hiked with my sons (ages 9-13 for sections ranging from 55 miles to 120 miles), they ate WAY more! In fact, if either of them ever became grumpy or particularly negative while hiking, it was because he needed to eat! Remember this! Feed the teen frequently! - Every 2-3 hours, he will need a snack!

[shelb]

Ok,I went to the pantry and looked at my hiking foods.I would like to know just what one can eat to get 4000 calories?.

The carbs are what bring the calories up! Since I have gone to a high protein diet (60-80 grams), I have been backpacking. If you have any ideas, I would love to hear them!
I am looking at going stove-less...and focusing on protein bars, nuts, jerkey, tuna....

[garlic08]

The carbs are what bring the calories up! Since I have gone to a high protein diet (60-80 grams), I have been backpacking. If you have any ideas, I would love to hear them!
I am looking at going stove-less...and focusing on protein bars, nuts, jerkey, tuna....

Carbs actually bring the calories down when compared to fat. Read post #25 above. Carbs affect blood sugar quicker.

I've been stoveless for my last 7000 trail miles and it's worked extremely well for me. Good luck making it work for you.

[billnchristy]

We only do overnights right now and I am sure our calorie intake is too low so I won't recommend foods, BUT, we hike with our daughter who is also 12 and can be a human food disposal as well.

Our last trip from three forks to Bryson gap on the BMT had her a little cranky and frustrated at times. I am pretty sure it was from food because when we stopped to snack things got better.

It seemed any annoyance was amplified significantly by the need for food. Feet hurt, pack not right, bite valve leaking etc.

I have also found that she struggles when she is back with my wife. I excel at uphills and leave the girls behind (then stop and wait for them) while they excel at downhills and leave me behind. Steady state or slight ups or downs we stay pretty close and her and I talk about ridiculous things (like making up animals or scenarios) and that keeps her mind off everything else.

So...I guess my advice is keep him busy and keep him fed! I am not even so sure it is the calories so much as the need to stuff their face!

We pack "fun size" Snickers, mini Slim Jims, trail mix, and bear mountain bars for our snacks and quick meals (breakfast 2, lunch 2) everything else is Mountain House because we had them on-hand and the space they take up ain't so bad for an overnight.

[BirdBrain]

The carbs are what bring the calories up! Since I have gone to a high protein diet (60-80 grams), I have been backpacking. If you have any ideas, I would love to hear them!
I am looking at going stove-less...and focusing on protein bars, nuts, jerkey, tuna....

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/show...=1#post1959866

[Pedaling Fool]

We only do overnights right now and I am sure our calorie intake is too low so I won't recommend foods, BUT, we hike with our daughter who is also 12 and can be a human food disposal as well.

Our last trip from three forks to Bryson gap on the BMT had her a little cranky and frustrated at times. I am pretty sure it was from food because when we stopped to snack things got better.

It seemed any annoyance was amplified significantly by the need for food. Feet hurt, pack not right, bite valve leaking etc.

I have also found that she struggles when she is back with my wife. I excel at uphills and leave the girls behind (then stop and wait for them) while they excel at downhills and leave me behind. Steady state or slight ups or downs we stay pretty close and her and I talk about ridiculous things (like making up animals or scenarios) and that keeps her mind off everything else.

So...I guess my advice is keep him busy and keep him fed! I am not even so sure it is the calories so much as the need to stuff their face!

We pack "fun size" Snickers, mini Slim Jims, trail mix, and bear mountain bars for our snacks and quick meals (breakfast 2, lunch 2) everything else is Mountain House because we had them on-hand and the space they take up ain't so bad for an overnight.

Let 'em bitch...

I think one of the best aspects of long distance hiking is the food rationing, which is exacerbated by the enormous expenditure of calories. Your body is built for this, but we don't know this because in modern society our bodies do not need to be as efficient as they are capable of being, which evolved this way from eons of feast to famine eating habits, i.e. famine on the trail; feast in town. Some say we have a so-called Thrifty Gene http://www.salk.edu/news/pressreleas...p?press_id=454

How much of the science of the thrifty gene is sound, I don't know. However, I do know that I learned that our bodies are so very efficient, when trained, as what happens during a LD hike. And you can build on this at home by not eating nearly the 2,000 calorie diet many say is crucial on a daily basis -- that's total BS. Yes you will be cranky in the beginning, just as you are sore when you first start a new exercise regimen, but once you get to the other side of that, it's a great feeling of not being perpetually bloated, as most people are, but don't realize it.

My daily meal on the trail was a pack of oatmeal in the morning; couple handfuls of gorp or spoons of peanut butter in the day; and handful of rice with dehydrated meat and veggies mixed in at night. That ain't many calories and it really hurt in the beginning, but over time you get use to it. And then you got the town stops -- I've had some massive meals that would normally bloated me, but after you get the hiker's appetite (took me about 3-weeks) your system is like a jet engine.

Interesting reading on a guy that trains his body to become a fat burning machine. http://triathlon.competitor.com/2014...-machine_31034



Excerpt:

"A good friend of mine once finished a six-hour ride in the mountains on nothing but pure water. No gels, no energy drinks—just water. And he was not out on a Sunday ride—he was hammering, riding hard on the ascents and flying down the descents. Can you do that? Or are you already thinking of how many gels and bars you would need to drag along for the ride?While research over the last 10 years has improved our understanding of fatigue and the interplay of metabolism, heat and fluids—as well as the role our brains play in all of this—there is still a general consensus that the size of our carbohydrate stores and the rate at which we can derive energy from fat play a significant role in endurance. And while most triathletes are well versed on the carbohydrate side of this equation—how to stock and replenish glycogen stores before, during and after workouts—few understand how to tap into their ability to use fat for fuel."

Read more at http://triathlon.competitor.com/2014...ZswhkOiPY4M.99

[jjtrindc]

Fascinating conversation. I'm fairly new myself, so can't comment from a trail perspective, but we are "calorie geeks" at home. My wife's trainer is also a nutritionist, and fiddles with both her calories numbers and the makeup of those calories in terms of protein, fat and carbs based on how her body is responding. I believe you have received a lot of good advice to get you started, and luckily you'll have time to adjust along the way as ultimately your body will tell you what you need.

We're also firm believers in spreading the calories out across protein/fat/carbs vs. loading in any one category. So for our most recent section hike, our daily snack rations contained beef jerky and "paleo" bars, trail mix that had higher proportions of dried fruit and a mix of bars based on our individual tastes. Larger meals were planned out roughly the same. That allowed us to eat what we were craving while thinking about nutrition. That had a good morale effect as well. Of course, we had the luxury of not having to resupply on the road where options are more limited. I'll also concede that our food weight was likely higher than most (though our base weight w/ water was always below 30 lbs for each adult)...but we love our food, so it was worth it.

We also hiked with our two kids. Our daughter is 10 (skin and bones) and our son is 13 (a bit meatier). In addition to the snack/meal variety, we made sure they had sweeter options like pop tarts, marshmallows, chocolate, etc. Again, it was about keeping up morale. We also found a nice rhythm. We took a "standing" water break every hour for 10-15 minutes (more if very hilly), and a packs-off, sit down and eat break every two hours that could last 15-30 minutes. That helped avoid the "bonks" while ensuring we kept a steady pace.

Lastly, we also like to have our "three squares" -- though not necessarily at prescribed times. So there was a lot of variation in the timing of lunch and dinner. Having the sit down time together for a family meal was good for morale.

As far as liquid calories - the kids loved having the individual packets of lemonaid powder (propel, etc) and G2 as it mixed things up, while mom and dad didn't mind the extra weight of a flask or two ;-)

[Harrison Bergeron]

You can google it - a typical hiker BURNS 4-6000 calories per day, depending on how many miles they do.

You'll have a hard time consuming or carrying more than about 2000, though. Personally, I lost 15 pounds during the 3 week GA/NC section I just completed. This was my menu at the end ( first week I could barely eat half this).

Breakfast: Oatmeal, 2 packets
Lunch: Tuna salad pkg on pita bread and a cliff bar
Dinner: Mountain House 2.5 serving packet and a cliff bar

Plus, I munched on gorp all day, about half a cup day.

I averaged 11 miles per day. According to the labels on the packages, that's about 1800 calories per day, which explains why I lost so much weight.

[CoolBobby]

I am new here, but have been researching for my thru next year.... I am planning on doing this (already have the dehydrator and used it alot when I was in the military..) :
http://www.backpackingchef.com/

Any thoughts?

[mak1277]

fritos, corn nuts, peanut m&m's, snickers, pringles, nutella, peanut butter, tortillas...these are my staples when I'm backpacking.

Breakfast: Single serve PB cup, single serve Nutella & Go container, all spread out on a tortilla. close to 700 calories.
Snack: shareable bag of peanut M&M's. 500+ calories
Lunch: Tuna packet (in oil) on a tortilla, small bag of fritos. 620 calories
Snack: 2 oz. of pringles. 320 calories
Dinner: 500-700 calories is easy to find in a mountain house, or instant mashed potatoes, or Knorr/Lipton side dish
Dessert: Dark chocolate bar. 200 calories

That's 2900 calories, give or take, without really breaking a sweat. I don't pretend to try and eat anything healthy when I'm backpacking though...so YMMV.

[Namtrag]

CoolBobby, we dehydrate our suppers, and we love it. We have a few go to dishes...hamburger mixed with the Trader Joe Mushroom Medley; chili; sweet potato and ground beef, etc.

One idea for a higher calorie, yet somewhat healthy breakfast is to put two bags of instant oatmeal in a freezer bag, then mix in a scoop or two of whey protein, and a scoop of Nido powdered full-fat milk. It comes out close to 600 calories.

[Rocket Jones]

I am new here, but have been researching for my thru next year.... I am planning on doing this (already have the dehydrator and used it alot when I was in the military..) :
http://www.backpackingchef.com/

Any thoughts?

I bought his book, it's that good. If nothing else, my backpacking diet improved using his ideas.