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  1. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf - 23000 View Post
    Google Maps does a great job too and they are free. Like most CT thru-hikers, I only plan on stopping by 3 - 4 towns. I don't see the value of spending $$ for something that is already free.

    Wolf
    that's what I always do too, (google satellite view), and find out where things are, and the lay of the land. much info can be gleaned. library, food, bed, breakfast...and short cuts, A to B for pedestrian travel.

  2. #42
    Registered User Wolf - 23000's Avatar
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    Thank you to everyone who as responded to this thread. I’ll be leaving in just under 2 months now for my CT Thru-hike!!! Needless to say, I am extremely excited!!!

    After all the posts, I believe it is safe what is available free on the Internet is enough to hike the CT. At the same time, there is also some who have been advocates for spending the money in support of either Erik the Black's, Yogi, the Colorado Map set of any other I might have missed.
    A thru-hiking book needs to give the mileage, places to resupply, maps. The mileages, maps are not going to really change. If point A to point B is 3 miles, that not going to change. A map is also not going to change. So it boils down to is it really worth spending the extra money going to the writer?

    The price of thru-hiking has really taken off, limiting the number of hikers who would be financially able to thru-hike. Money going to support the CT or other trail helps maintain the trail for this year and years to follow. Other money spent maybe spent unnecessary.

    Someone new to the CT can only go on what others past hikers have deem good/bad when determining which trail book to select. As a service to hike community, while hiking the CT this year I like to give hikers a side-by-side comparison if spending the money for a book/map is helpful. There are several hikers who are already posting their thru-hike on-line. New hikers could compare if spending money on a trail book/map etc. was helping them with spending, pack-weight, difficult route finding against myself using only what is on the Internet. A way to compare apples with apples.

    What do other thinks? If a book such as Erik the Black's, Yogi or other that make a living off of hikers are really usefully.

    Wolf
    Last edited by Wolf - 23000; 05-27-2015 at 20:39.

  3. #43

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    yes no need to buy those expensive books just go during July when the trail is clear and no snow!

  4. #44
    Registered User Wolf - 23000's Avatar
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    Even in the snow, I believe it would be possible. There are to many people out there that love to scare others into buying things they don't need or spend.

    Wolf

  5. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf - 23000 View Post
    What do other things? If a book such as Erik the Black's, Yogi or other that make a living off of hikers are really usefully. Wolf
    Yes, I think guide books are very helpful. They collect all the info you need into one handy reference which you can carry with you and doesn't need batteries.

    I for one appreciate all the work which goes into producing a guide book (which is a lot) and am happy to buy it. I really doubt Yogi (or anyone else) makes much of a living off of selling their guide.
    The AT - It has it's ups and downs...

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    The products are about convenience.

    Anyone can print usgs maps, plot gps tracks on them by hand, for free.

    Likewise, they can scour internet and find advise on reliable water and good camping areas. They can also print google maps of towns that show poi.

    Or....they can spend a couple $ and purchase a guide from someone that already did, and makes an effort to have up to date info. The reason most expend this effort, is to make $, either for themself or the CTAssoc.

    Inevitably, the day will come when better free maps are available with poi on them, ala halfmile, postholer, etc.

    Thing is, the information on a map ( reality) is not proprietary, only the particular representation of it. Anyone can copy the data with ease. When someone does the work, and makes it public for free, it undercuts the other endeavors.

    But these other endeavors are needed to insure accurate reliable information is out thete as it changes over time.
    Last edited by MuddyWaters; 05-27-2015 at 20:30.

  7. #47
    Registered User Wolf - 23000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slo-go'en View Post
    I for one appreciate all the work which goes into producing a guide book (which is a lot) and am happy to buy it. I really doubt Yogi (or anyone else) makes much of a living off of selling their guide.
    How much does the AT Companion cost? If you a member of ALDHA a digital copy is free, other wise the printed copies are between $11 - $15. AWOL book is about the same price. Now lets compare that with how much Yogi or Erik the Black charge. Just a little bit of different in price what do you think? And most of the information is ready available. Putting the information to thru-hike the CT is really not that hard.

    Wolf

  8. #48
    Registered User Wolf - 23000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MuddyWaters View Post
    The products are about convenience.

    Anyone can print usgs maps, plot gps tracks on them by hand, for free.

    Likewise, they can scour internet and find advise on reliable water and good camping areas. They can also print google maps of towns that show poi.

    Or....they can spend a couple $ and purchase a guide from someone that already did, and makes an effort to have up to date info. The reason most expend this effort, is to make $, either for themself or the CTAssoc.

    Inevitably, the day will come when better free maps are available with poi on them, ala halfmile, postholer, etc.

    Thing is, the information on a map ( reality) is not proprietary, only the particular representation of it. Anyone can copy the data with ease. When someone does the work, and makes it public for free, it undercuts the other endeavors.

    But these other endeavors are needed to insure accurate reliable information is out thete as it changes over time.
    Muddywaters,

    If someone is willing to put a few hours to gather up their own data that is good enough to hike the CT, then is it really an endeavors worth someone else trying to make a few $$ to do something similar? It one thing if it goes back to the trail, it is different if it is going into someone pocket.

    I don't know if you are aware of this but back in the 1990s, there was actually a CDT data/guidebook with maps. There were only a few people that knew about it. It was never published that was the deal but it was updated ever year by thru-hikers and past on from year to year. It was a way thru-hikers could give back to the next year thru-hikers and so on. The tradition lasted for years and from what I was told it was actuate. Is there any reason why that could not be restarted for the CT? Any notes/updates I take, I am going to turn over to the Colorado Trail Foundation, and postholer (free of course).

    Offering a journal of my CT hike would also be a fair way other hikers could see how well I did. Was what I was able to obtain good enough to hiked the entire trail? Was I carrying any more or less pack weight than someone who relied on others "expert advice"? Did I spend any more or less than the average hiker? It is a fair way across the board that future hikers can compare Apples with Apples on which is the better approach. What is wrong with that?

    Wolf
    Last edited by Wolf - 23000; 05-28-2015 at 13:45.

  9. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf - 23000 View Post
    Muddywaters,

    If someone is willing to put a few hours to gather up their own data that is good enough to hike the CT, then is it really an endeavors worth someone else trying to make a few $$ to do something similar? It one thing if it goes back to the trail, it is different if it is going into someone pocket.

    I don't know if you are aware of this but back in the 1990s, there was actually a CDT data/guidebook with maps. There were only a few people that knew about it. It was never published that was the deal but it was updated ever year by thru-hikers and past on from year to year. It was a way thru-hikers could give back to the next year thru-hikers and so on. The tradition lasted for years and from what I was told it was actuate. Is there any reason why that could not be restarted for the CT? Any notes/updates I take, I going to turn over to the Colorado Trail Foundation, and postholer (free of course).

    Offering a journal of my CT hike would also be a fair way other hikers could see how well I did. Was what I was able to obtain good enough to hiked the entire trail? Was I carrying any more or less pack weight than someone who relied on others "expert advice"? Did I spend any more or less than the average hiker? It is a fair way across the board that future hikers can compare Apples with Apples on which is the better approach. What is wrong with that?

    Wolf
    Nothing wrong with it, maybe its how it should be.

    But, to insure that there is available and accurate information out there for hikers, someone has to put some effort into compiling and maintaining it. Few want to work for free.

    So far, no one is doing this for free, except CT assoc volunteers, whose goal is to make money to support the trail, which is a worthy cause.


    I would rather send them a check myself. Tax deductible.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf - 23000 View Post
    Muddywaters,

    If someone is willing to put a few hours to gather up their own data that is good enough to hike the CT, then is it really an endeavors worth someone else trying to make a few $$ to do something similar? It one thing if it goes back to the trail, it is different if it is going into someone pocket.

    Wolf
    I'd think the endeavors worth is up to the individual doing it. If they're making money they'll continue doing it, if they're not they'll stop. As Mags mentioned earlier, if someone wants to purchase a product they will and if they don't want to they won't. Capitalism is a beautiful thing, it gives everyone freedom of choice in what they purchase, what they don't, and whom they purchase from. I for one, don't have the time available between now and my hike to compile my own maps and data points so I went to the CTF website and spent $12.95 on the databook. If I felt Erik the Black's was worth the price over the databook, I would have gladly purchased that. Again, freedom of choice.

  11. #51
    Registered User Wolf - 23000's Avatar
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    Onda Road Again,

    I agree with you (and others) that Capitalism can be a beautiful thing but it can also be expensive to the hiker. I’m sure you also know some things can be done with simple everyday inexpensive alternatives. Use a soda bottle in replace of a Nalgene bottle when carrying water, use a cat food can for a stove to name just a few.

    A trail guide doesn’t have to be any different. It is a free country and people have the right to choice if they what to purchase a trail book or use a free version. As Mags also pointed out, it is also good to have options.

    Someone new to hiking the CT may feel, the only choice they have to purchase a trail book. It is what everyone else is doing. The book may offer no or little benefit over the free version. The only thing I’m doing is letting hikers have a fair comparison between shelling out the money on a trail book compare with saving their money. Apples with Apples.

    Wolf

  12. #52
    Registered User HeartFire's Avatar
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    I'm a little fascinated by this whole thread. You seem to be complaining about a guide book and do you need it . No, you don't need it, yes, it's a convenience, but you are complaining about the cost - and about how backpacking has become so expensive. If you can't afford to buy a guide book, you probably can't really afford the transportation to and from a hike (plane fare if you are not local), time off from work (if you are employed), gear etc. I hiked the CT a couple of years ago, I found the guide books very helpful. I had both the CT data book, Erik the Blacks guide, Yogi's books and scoured the internet for more information. I was glad I had all of these things to help plan my trip. I also bought maps - the Latitude 40 and the CT map book.

    This year it will be onthe CDT - I've got Yogis books, the Ley maps, Guthooks app and more maps! to me, there can't be too much info before hand.

    (and then again, I make my living off of hikers, so maybe I shouldn't talk!)

    Judy -LightHeart Gear

  13. #53

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    I'm surprised at all the whining over $10. The Eric the Blacks CT Atlas is $30 (on sale now for $24) and the AWOL Guide for the AT is $21. Also, keep in mind that the economy of scale is at work. I'm sure that the AWOL Guide has a much larger printing than the CT Atlas.

  14. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf - 23000 View Post
    I don't know if you are aware of this but back in the 1990s, there was actually a CDT data/guidebook with maps. There were only a few people that knew about it. It was never published that was the deal but it was updated ever year by thru-hikers and past on from year to year. It was a way thru-hikers could give back to the next year thru-hikers and so on. The tradition lasted for years and from what I was told it was actuate. Is there any reason why that could not be restarted for the CT?
    Wolf
    The original loose leaf CDT Guides and Maps date back to Jim Wolf at CDTS to the late 70's shortly after when the trail was established as a National Scenic Trail. Updated versions are still available, but they were never free. In the late 90's, a set of four conventional style CDT guidebooks were written with the help of John Fielder and published by Westcliffe Publishers. They sold for $24.95 each in 1990, which, BTW, is what the present Colorado Trail guidebook costs today 25 years later. (Roughly the same as buying ten gallons of gas in todays world.)

    The CT in it's current state is well constructed and well marked, and whether you need the guidebook or not may be a topic of discussion, but from a historical point of view the guidebook is not expensive.
    Last edited by bearcreek; 05-28-2015 at 17:30.

  15. #55

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    This thread is based on way too much jack-assery! It's so very simple. I you like it, or you need it, buy it. If you don't like it or need it, -don't lay down the money. Please stop trying to control other people's choices. If you don't want to do that- then maybe you can do it somewhere else? I was cringing all the way through this thread.

    HYOH
    "it is mystic; it is wild; it is a photographer's paradise, an escapist's Utopia. It is what you will, and it withstands all interpretations. To a lot of people like me, it is just home"-Beryl Markham

  16. #56
    Registered User Wolf - 23000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bearcreek View Post
    The original loose leaf CDT Guides and Maps date back to Jim Wolf at CDTS to the late 70's shortly after when the trail was established as a National Scenic Trail. Updated versions are still available, but they were never free. In the late 90's, a set of four conventional style CDT guidebooks were written with the help of John Fielder and published by Westcliffe Publishers. They sold for $24.95 each in 1990, which, BTW, is what the present Colorado Trail guidebook costs today 25 years later. (Roughly the same as buying ten gallons of gas in todays world.)

    The CT in it's current state is well constructed and well marked, and whether you need the guidebook or not may be a topic of discussion, but from a historical point of view the guidebook is not expensive.
    bearcreek,

    I've seen Jim Wolf guide/maps as well for sale during that time as well. Jim Wolf guide was out for a couple years when I was planning on thru-hiking the CDT. Only a very small number of hikers thru-hike the CDT back then so the CDT guidebook wasn't update to often, I don't remember what it sold for back then but it was not something that was really written for a thru-hike. It had a lot of extra information that seem like it was written for someone hiking for shorter backpacking trips. If I'm looking for water,

    There was also another option that a few former thru-hikers passed from year to year. Thru-hiking every year, I was a lot more connected in the hiking community than I am now. I received a part of it while beginning planning for a CDT thru-hike. It was before the Internet really took off so things were a slow back then. The loose guide had the notes, maps of former thru-hikers. I had enough to start the planning but was waiting for the updates to be added in.

    Wolf

  17. #57
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    I'm all for living simply, and being a cheapskate is fine too. However, do not ask to use my data book on the trail (once/twice okay no more), do not repeatedly ask me where we are because I have a gps. I even picked up some data pages left as litter at a CT campsite, "because the hiker didn't need the bicycle detour sections." (ran into him in Durango and he owned that he threw them out). So the attitude of using only what one needs and not wanting to buy the whole enchilada is annoying at best. It's definately one of the irritating things about people always lookin for a better deal. In the end, they often get what they deserve-"higher prices and time lost". Generally, this mentality is for high maintenance folks that want something for nothing because they don't realize the value of things in general. All trails can be hiked without data. I've done it and ended up blazing some routes that will never be seen again...GL out there, I love the CT!!!
    See ya when I get there.

  18. #58
    Registered User Wolf - 23000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soulrebel View Post
    I'm all for living simply, and being a cheapskate is fine too. However, do not ask to use my data book on the trail (once/twice okay no more), do not repeatedly ask me where we are because I have a gps. I even picked up some data pages left as litter at a CT campsite, "because the hiker didn't need the bicycle detour sections." (ran into him in Durango and he owned that he threw them out). So the attitude of using only what one needs and not wanting to buy the whole enchilada is annoying at best. It's definately one of the irritating things about people always lookin for a better deal. In the end, they often get what they deserve-"higher prices and time lost". Generally, this mentality is for high maintenance folks that want something for nothing because they don't realize the value of things in general. All trails can be hiked without data. I've done it and ended up blazing some routes that will never be seen again...GL out there, I love the CT!!!
    soulrebel,

    When I backpack I rely sole on what I am carry on my back. I don’t expect others to carry any thing I should have or could have carry myself. Whichever book/maps/etc. you use or anyone else use, I wish you success with it.

    It is also annoying when someone makes the assumption the book/map they choose is that much better than the choice I am making. I have never asked or have ever asked to use someone databook/map to do my hike.

    The CT doesn’t haven’t that many thru-hikers. It pretty much what you have on your back, is what you can count on having available. Just saying.

    It will be interesting to see how each of us fair apples with apples.

    Wolf

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