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  1. #21
    Registered User Mr Liberty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firesong View Post
    I was wondering if you have tried 99% ISO ? I can get it from the pharmacy.
    I haven't tried it but I'm sure it would work, and you probably wouldn't get the yellow flare-up at the end.

    Although, IIRC 99% iso = red HEET, so it would work in any stove that uses that.

    If you're looking to copy the stove, I'll write up/film a tutorial once I get the kinks worked out of it
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Liberty View Post
    ...

    Although, IIRC 99% iso = red HEET, so it would work in any stove that uses that.
    Problem is that really no stove really uses iso at all except in emergencies and expect soot. The red HEET is to be avoided for this reason. Perhaps you have a design that will allow it without the drawbacks.

  3. #23
    Registered User Mr Liberty's Avatar
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    Okay, made more modifications:
    Trial 3: Made a new outer can, with taller pot supports. However, I also made them much thinner, per Zelph's suggestion, which made them much flimsier and easy to bend. I did have to set the pot on and then light it, otherwise it was difficult to set the pot gently on the supports so they didn't bend over.


    However, I think they were too tall, so after about 2 minutes the flame got much more yellow and sooty.


    This made the fuel run out more quickly. With 15mL it heated for 6:30, then ended just before a roiling boil (~200 deg F) when the flame went out.

    When I get back from a weekend trip, I'll try to cut the supports shorter.
    Walking is the best possible exercise. Habituate yourself to walk very far.
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  4. #24
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    The methanol combustion reaction is 2 CH3OH + 3 O2 → 2 CO2 + 4 H2O
    The ethanol combustion reaction is 2 C2H5OH + 6 O2 → 4 CO2 + 6 H2O
    The isopropyl combustion reaction is 2 C3H7OH + 9 O2 → 6 CO2 + 8 H2O

    Isopropyl, as a larger alcohol molecule, doesn't vaporize as well as the smaller methanol or ethanol molecules, nor does it mix as easily with the surrounding oxygen (rich flame), and hence when burned releases more unburned hydrocarbons (carbon = soot).
    Last edited by 4eyedbuzzard; 05-15-2015 at 18:32.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by zelph View Post
    Reduce the width of your original pot supports to 1/4 wide. They will probably melt but you'll see a difference and should remain clean burning.

    Switch to steel outer can to prevent melting of pot supports.
    Ok, make another one and follow my directions as stated above.

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    The ring of wicking material does remind me of a kerosene space heater. Don't know if that is helpful to the OP, but it is a important feature of a kero heater so as not to produce soot and odor. It being a ring + a certain thickness + a certain height are all important. (also clean and no water, however the no water part is less of a issue here as water mixes with iso, it does not with kero)

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by zelph View Post
    Ok, make another one and follow my directions as stated above.
    Those flimsy pot supports. Cut your can metal longer and/or wider than necessary and then fold over in half doubling the thickness of the support legs may help.

  8. #28
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    Search origami stove for construction methods of pot supports. Those methods could be adapted on a smaller scale to make strong and suitable supports that would fit your needs.
    In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years. - Abraham Lincoln

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rolex View Post
    Those flimsy pot supports. Cut your can metal longer and/or wider than necessary and then fold over in half doubling the thickness of the support legs may help.
    That will work. A steel outer can will last much longer.

    Water accumulation in the fiberglass is cumulative. After 3 or 4 boils, the amount of water absorbed by the wick will cause difficulties once the pot is placed on the stove. It will tend to go out. The wick will have to be allowed to dry out. Iso can be a hassle in wick type stoves.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4eyedbuzzard View Post
    The methanol combustion reaction is 2 CH3OH + 3 O2 → 2 CO2 + 4 H2O
    The ethanol combustion reaction is 2 C2H5OH + 6 O2 → 4 CO2 + 6 H2O
    The isopropyl combustion reaction is 2 C3H7OH + 9 O2 → 6 CO2 + 8 H2O

    Isopropyl, as a larger alcohol molecule, doesn't vaporize as well as the smaller methanol or ethanol molecules, nor does it mix as easily with the surrounding oxygen (rich flame), and hence when burned releases more unburned hydrocarbons (carbon = soot).
    Also, isopropanol, can't be distilled to more than 88%. At higher concentrations, the water comes off in the still at the same or higher rate than the isopropanol, so there's essentially always that 12% water.

    Ethanol will go to 95%, and methanol can in theory be separated entirely from water.
    I always know where I am. I'm right here.

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    I gave up early in the search for an Iso stove because of the remaining water and smell of burned fuel.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by BirdBrain View Post
    Search origami stove for construction methods of pot supports. Those methods could be adapted on a smaller scale to make strong and suitable supports that would fit your needs.
    http://zenstoves.net/Cyclone.htm
    In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years. - Abraham Lincoln

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    Mr. Liberty, try to stay with the one piece stove designs for simplicity of use. You've got a good start, stick with it :-)

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    I am missing something. Who has suggested anything other than the one piece construction that he is attempting? I have seen a few posts suggesting a way to beef up the support structure of that one piece construction. The folding suggested seems useful. I posted a link to show a suitable folding method. I am.out of my league on this type of stove. Pot support help seems reasonable.
    In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years. - Abraham Lincoln

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Liberty View Post
    I've been playing around with making a soda can stove that burns 91% isopropyl alcohol, and after a few iterations I came up with a version that burns cleanly, albeit not very efficiently. I took a cue from Zelph's doodah-man special/ring-of-fire stove and used a fiberglass wick around the outside, and it burns cleanly when it has a pot over it. The construction is idiot-simple, just cut two cans (one smaller than the other) and drill a hole in the base of the smaller one. You pour the fuel down the middle, through the hole (after "wetting" the wick, if necessary). You can see in the second picture that I also cut some triangular slits in the bottom of the smaller can, to let the fuel seep out to the outside of the larger can. Then it's drawn up by the wick, and burns just above the stove. It weighs between 8 and 9 grams, my scale can't decide

    Do you have any suggestions that would make this more efficient? It couldn't boil a cup of cool water with 3tsp (15mL) of fuel, although I don't have a very good pot so I just used a little metal bowl I got from the thrift store for a dollar . I bet a fancy titanium pot would boil quicker...



    I came across this as I was reading some vintage threads at bplite.com:


  16. #36
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    Here is another style stove that burns Iso 91 cleanly.


  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by zelph View Post
    I came across this as I was reading some vintage threads at bplite.com:

    Yep, that was the one that gave me the idea to use a wick like that. My very first iteration was a chimney stove with massive airflow, since I figured you needed more air to get to the flame, but I believe now that it's actually too much air, so you need to manage the airflow and distance from burner to pot to get it to burn cleanly.

    Quote Originally Posted by zelph View Post
    Here is another style stove that burns Iso 91 cleanly.

    Ah, ok. I had seen the "venom stove" mentioned in other threads but never could dig up any videos on it. it looks rather similar to what I have, but "inside out" (pot support on inside, wick on outside).

    Now that I think about it... I should try that, supporting the pot on the center can. All it does for me now is act as a funnel for fuel and limit the airflow to the flame. If I use it as the support then I wouldn't have to worry about the outside supports being too thin or melting... I'll have to do some testing with that this weekend.
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    Ah, ok. I had seen the "venom stove" mentioned in other threads but never could dig up any videos on it. it looks rather similar to what I have, but "inside out" (pot support on inside, wick on outside).

    Now that I think about it... I should try that, supporting the pot on the center can. All it does for me now is act as a funnel for fuel and limit the airflow to the flame. If I use it as the support then I wouldn't have to worry about the outside supports being too thin or melting... I'll have to do some testing with that this weekend.
    Yes, give it a try this weekend, have fun :-)

  19. #39
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    Arrow Trials 5 and 6

    So I tried two more designs, here's the results:

    Trial 5: center support, 3/8" gap between outer and inner piece, long wick
    Water: 1 cup, 75 deg F
    Fuel: 15mL 91% isopropyl
    Boil Time: 4:15
    Burn Time: 5:15
    Sooty after 3 minutes

    Start pic:


    End Pic:



    Trial 6: 1/4" gap, shorter wick
    Water: 1 cup, 79 deg F
    Fuel: 15mL 91% isopropyl
    Boil Time: 8:30
    Burn Time: 9:30
    Sooty after 7 minutes

    Start pic:


    Middle Pic (~4:30 in):


    End Pic:



    Conclusions:
    It seems that the length of the wick has a greater effect than the gap between the outer and inner cans does. It also seems inevitable that the flame becomes sooty when most of the fuel is gone. I'll have to test my smaller-gap version with a longer wick. When using on the trail, I should burn a little extra fuel so that I can boil my water and remove the pot before the flame gets sooty.
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    Adding Zelph's related post from another thread, for continuity/posterity and whatnot.

    Quote Originally Posted by zelph View Post
    You're coming along just fine. It's a fun learning process.

    The Fancee Feest stove might work ok with Iso91. I've been inspired by you to try using it as a fuel for the Fancee Feest. I'll give it a shot today and report back tomorrow. It's all in the name of Stove Science :-)

    Just recently we saw the video made by Hiram Cook where he used the Venom Super Stove and Iso91 as fuel. So I've gotten a renewed interest in doing some experimenting with Iso.
    Walking is the best possible exercise. Habituate yourself to walk very far.
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