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  1. #21
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    Geez!!! What's the hissy fit about??

  2. #22
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    I paid $5.48 for mine! Works great once lit but it sprays fuel for a split second until the canister is totally screwed on. I've never used one of these, so probably user error. Seen the same one at walmart for like $20-$25 bucks. The canister was bought at walmart too. It's a primus power gas 8.9 0z. canister, 370 grams full. Brings 2 cups cups of water to a boil using 9 grams of fuel.

  3. #23
    Registered User Tuckahoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by squeezebox View Post
    Geez!!! What's the hissy fit about??
    I dont think it was a hissy fit, as much as it was calling BS on your claims of an infringement of intellectual property. Tace aut face!
    igne et ferrum est potentas
    "In the beginning, all America was Virginia." -​William Byrd

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by squeezebox View Post
    One question you have to ask yourself. This probably Chinese company bought some pocket rockets, took them apart, completely ignored the copyright laws. made their own, and started selling them for 1/4 price. Sticking MSR in the butt. By buying one of these you also ignored the copyright laws. Do you feel okay about it?
    Yea! I bought one also.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tuckahoe View Post
    Pure bunk and BS. What unique technology is included in the design, manufacture and use of a MSR canister stove that is not already well known and used across all stove designs that would amount to a patent infringement?
    FWIW, MSR Pocketrocket is manufactured in China. Typically the knock-offs are being produced in an adjacent factory/shop, or maybe even in the same one. What's the difference? Cheaper metals, looser machining tolerances, testing, meeting safety standards for the market country, design criteria, engineering and quality standards, technical documentation, construction, quality of component parts, machining tolerances, etc.

    A potential issue is that MSR stoves are CSA and CE certified - certified as to design and construction for use in US, Canadian, and European markets. This could prove to be a liability issue if the stove is used by someone and they get injured (such as scouts), or if your stove malfunctions and causes some other sort of damage.

  5. #25
    Registered User Tuckahoe's Avatar
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    Small correction in that the Pocket Rocket is manufactured in Korea.
    igne et ferrum est potentas
    "In the beginning, all America was Virginia." -​William Byrd

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuckahoe View Post
    Small correction in that the Pocket Rocket is manufactured in Korea.
    I stand corrected. I saw both Korea and China listed, although on further checking around it seems most do say Korea.
    For example http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/pr...ductId=4008945 shows China as country of origin.

    Some of these cheap stoves may be very well made, but some are probably not so well made. The problem is how do you know?

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuckahoe View Post
    Pure bunk and BS. What unique technology is included in the design, manufacture and use of a MSR canister stove that is not already well known and used across all stove designs that would amount to a patent infringement?
    I can't answer your question. But I have heard of a lot copyright infringement out there. More pirate CDs & DVDs, but other stuff as well.

  8. #28
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    When a multi-national company moves it's factory(s) overseas to get the best bottom line. And tries to claim intellectual infringement, when the same workers make "knock offs". There's most of the BS is. I'll support the workers. The only work the executives do in on the backs of the workers.
    I still think there is no easy answer.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by squeezebox View Post
    When a multi-national company moves it's factory(s) overseas to get the best bottom line. And tries to claim intellectual infringement, when the same workers make "knock offs". There's most of the BS is. I'll support the workers. The only work the executives do in on the backs of the workers.
    I still think there is no easy answer.
    I don't have a big issue with a small company of workers getting together and making and selling a gas stove for standardized canisters. But where I disagree with you is when a foreign manufacturer knocks-off an established patented design almost as an exact copy. There's a lot of money invested in design, engineering, tooling and marketing to bring an item to market that consumers find desirable. Copying a product outright isn't just a matter of wage workers cutting out the "surplus profit" inherent in capitalism so to speak. Most of these knock-offs aren't being made by entrepreneurial machinists, they're being made by cutthroat businessmen setting up sweat shops and hiring the lowest wage workers who wind up working under worse conditions than the workers at the legitimate business. Companies like MSR typically inspect their foreign operations and/or contractors to avoid quality issues, worker abuse (really bad PR), etc. If anything, if you really care about the workers, you'll typically find they enjoy better wages and treatment when they are employed making the legitimate name brand products.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4eyedbuzzard View Post
    I don't have a big issue with a small company of workers getting together and making and selling a gas stove for standardized canisters. But where I disagree with you is when a foreign manufacturer knocks-off an established patented design almost as an exact copy. There's a lot of money invested in design, engineering, tooling and marketing to bring an item to market that consumers find desirable. Copying a product outright isn't just a matter of wage workers cutting out the "surplus profit" inherent in capitalism so to speak. Most of these knock-offs aren't being made by entrepreneurial machinists, they're being made by cutthroat businessmen setting up sweat shops and hiring the lowest wage workers who wind up working under worse conditions than the workers at the legitimate business. Companies like MSR typically inspect their foreign operations and/or contractors to avoid quality issues, worker abuse (really bad PR), etc. If anything, if you really care about the workers, you'll typically find they enjoy better wages and treatment when they are employed making the legitimate name brand products.
    That is not the case here, AFASK there is no real name brand stove remotely similar to these. It appears a unique design, and hopefully will not be counterfeited as they deserve to make some money on it, as it really helps out us not to enrich the shareholders of MSR (and others) and the CEO of those companies, when all we need is a simple stove to backpacking.

  11. #31
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    I still don't know. Here in St. Louis At Washington University St. louis there has been a large increase in the Asian student population for a while. So more of the burgeoning Asian Bourgeois can afford to send their kids to American Universities. Do they treat their workers any better than the multi-nationals that have set up in Asia. My guess is their workers are probably treated worse, but the multi-nationals are not far behind.
    I'm just pissing in the wind and guessing.

  12. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by squeezebox View Post
    I still don't know. Here in St. Louis At Washington University St. louis there has been a large increase in the Asian student population for a while. So more of the burgeoning Asian Bourgeois can afford to send their kids to American Universities. Do they treat their workers any better than the multi-nationals that have set up in Asia. My guess is their workers are probably treated worse, but the multi-nationals are not far behind.
    I'm just pissing in the wind and guessing.
    This is a good reason to buy Chinese stuff. I've never bought into the whole "buy American" thing. The best way to defeat communism isn't to isolate them, its to let them get rich on capitalism, send their kids to American universities, learn more capitalism, learn freedom, learn rights...and then go back to their home country and set brushfires in the minds of their fellow man.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bronk View Post
    This is a good reason to buy Chinese stuff. I've never bought into the whole "buy American" thing. The best way to defeat communism isn't to isolate them, its to let them get rich on capitalism, send their kids to American universities, learn more capitalism, learn freedom, learn rights...and then go back to their home country and set brushfires in the minds of their fellow man.
    Which would be a good thing - in moderation. The difficult part is in managing that process so as not to sacrifice your own country in the process. And we aren't doing a particularly good job at that.

  14. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bronk View Post
    This is a good reason to buy Chinese stuff. I've never bought into the whole "buy American" thing. The best way to defeat communism isn't to isolate them, its to let them get rich on capitalism, send their kids to American universities, learn more capitalism, learn freedom, learn rights...and then go back to their home country and set brushfires in the minds of their fellow man.
    Been many years since the big one, and several generations removed...what are they waiting for? Perhaps they didn't buy into the whole buy America thing either.

  15. #35
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    My ex-wife is all but dissertation in Political Science. She has a 1/2 a bookshelf dedicated to ethics and capitalism. I serious think we are not going to find the answer here. But it is something that I think we should all think about.
    RIP

  16. #36

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    I use that exact stove. I used a wind shield and it trapped enough heat to totally melt the starter. I still use the stove, just have to light with a lighter now.

    seems to work well and boil fast.

    I am currently looking to expand my cook system past only boiling water. I am probably going to get a MSR Windburner and fry pan.

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