Calling 911

[squeezebox]

2 weeks ago I was climbing down the rock field south of Waynesborough PA, I took a turn behind a tree instead of in front of it. I fell about 3 ft. and fell directly on my shoulder with a 40 lb pack. I was able to scramble back up, but my shoulder was hurt, not able to carry my pack, too much pain. Thinking a while I decided to call 911.

911- 911 can I help you
me - I'm a hiker in a rock field just south of town, I fell about 3 ft off a rock and hurt my shoulder, can you send someone to help me walk out of here?
911- do you need an ambulance?
me- no I need 1 person to carry my pack and help me walk out of here.
911- we can send an ambulance with a team of paramedics, we have the equipment to evacuate you.
me - I can walk. can't you call a local hiking club or outfitter to find someone to help me walk out of here?
911- We don't have those numbers. Don't you need an ambulance?
me - no

They called back in 5 min. and repeated the conversation.
The Park service called back 5 min after that and repeated the conversation.

I waited a while for another hiker to come by. Late in the day, That did not happen, so I put up my tent for the night. luckily there was a fairly flat spot.
In the morning I started packing up, figured someone would come by.
Another call from 911 another call from Park service.
Before finishing packing up 4 experienced day hikers came by. I explained my situation, and asked for help.
1 person took the others pack, 1 took mine, another walked behind me, they decided uphill was shorter. in about 1/4 mile or more we were at the lookout above Waynesborough PA. I called the B&B asked for a ride, another call from Park service. in a bit the B&B lady was there, took me to the doc in a box. No broken collarbone. But the soft tissue damage would take a while to heal. as well as the heel blisters.
I'm still disappointed that 911 is so rigid and is unable to meet peoples needs that are not actually in danger of dying.

[fiddlehead]

Sounds like a computer.
My insurance company sounded about the the same when I tried to change some coverage. .
The way the world is going I guess.
Hope you are feeling better.

[Tuckahoe]

Squeezebox, you called 911, an emergency number intended for immediate emergency response from police, fire or EMT and expected them to send out just a porter? I think you're the one with unreasonable expectations here.

[peakbagger]

I agree with the prior poster, 911 works on Standard Operating Procedures (SOPs). When you call the dispatcher they have a written set of instructions for every possible emergency. Before they will do anything, they have to determine if you are having an emergency and you unfortunately didn't meet the threshold. If you were capable of walking out it wasn't an emergency. Much as it is important to you, recovering your pack is not an emergency, thus the reasoning was, you were capable of walking out and therefore didn't need a rescue.

In NH the 911 system would have routed you to Fish and Game who deal with hiker incidents. I expect in rural PA, hikers incidents are a rare but in NH, they are frequent. NHF&G will ask you questions and decide if you have an emergency, most likely they would decide it wasn't as what you wanted was a porter to carry your pack. At their discretion, they may contact a local volunteer S&R organization or if in the Whites either the AMC or RMC huts staffs to assist. They may or may not carry your pack out. If you really want your pack, they may refer you to a local mountain guide who will get your credit card number and gladly meet you. Incidents like this happen frequently in NH and usually other day hikers will help like your case. Unfortunately, some folks don't like the response so they will lie about their condition, if F&G responds they will make an assessment and may elect to charge for the rescue and the NH Hike Safe Card may not cover it.

As was relayed to me by a S&R member years ago, they are there for emergencies, not inconveniences, that definitely applies to the 911 system.

[Starchild]

911 is a highly trained professional 24/7 emergency service. You call them, explain the situation and they put the plan into action - that's what they do. They are the ones in control and make the calls (given their training, expertise and SOP's). The one requesting help has already turned over control by the request. Your only choice is to refuse their service, they don't have any obligation to offer help in the way you want it, and in many cases they can not do that.

'Walking you out of there' (your request) is evacuation, your pack is irrelevant, your ability to walk out if assisted is still evacuation. To them also you are not medically qualified to make a determination as to the state of your injury.

They provided the appropriate response in your 911 transcript. If you would have taken them up on it you could have had the paramedics helped hiked you out but refused transport once you got to the trailhead.


From what you wanted a more proper number would have been 411 where you could ask for a guide service or outfitter (911 is not such a number to call fro such services). Although you might not have been able to call them as 911 gets all towers, 411 only your service providers.

Also your story seems like your exit to a trailhead, if I'm reading this correctly, was only 1/4 a mile away uphill which you could not do alone, yet you could set up your tent. Perhaps you could have abandoned the pack (maybe with a note, maybe hid it for later recovery), and walked out???

[Lone Wolf]

you did not need to call 911

[daddytwosticks]

Every person reacts differently to situations. It's easy to second guess. If it was me, I'd probably abandoned the pack and walked out. Glad you are OK. It could have ended up much worse.

[FlyFishNut]

Unfortunately, had you been an indigent in any city around the US you could get transported for having a cold or a headache and not even have to foot the bill!

I'm not saying that you needed to call 911, I would have just left my pack and hoped no one stole it or left a note on it if possible.

Every day people use ambulances for the dumbest reasons, wasting time and costing taxpayers money. I would bet EMS wouldn't chastised you at all if you had fallen on a street somewhere and they were called to transport you, but up in the hills it is a different story.

[slbirdnerd]

I'm glad you got help and are ok, squeezebox. Buuuuut, I agree this wasn't a 9-1-1 call situation. Having been the public information officer for the National 9-1-1 Association, I was forever explaining to the media what 9-1-1's intended purpose is, and that yes, they do have procedures and protocols they must follow. One of the biggest problem 9-1-1 comm centers have is that when someone calls without a life-threatening emergency, they are taking up a line and an operator who then may not be available to someone who IS having a life threatening emergency. I realize it can be difficult not to panic when you're hurt, but please use 9-1-1 responsibly.

I recommend everyone going out into the backcountry take a wilderness first aid course. Even if you don't intent to use the training to help others, it's incredibly beneficial yourself to help you understand different injuries, learn how to keep calm, and know what constitutes an extraction versus a walk-out scenario. I took one through NOLS and it was a huge confidence booster with this kind of stuff.

[Traveler]

I recommend everyone going out into the backcountry take a wilderness first aid course. Even if you don't intent to use the training to help others, it's incredibly beneficial yourself to help you understand different injuries, learn how to keep calm, and know what constitutes an extraction versus a walk-out scenario. I took one through NOLS and it was a huge confidence booster with this kind of stuff.

Great idea. Not only valuable (and in a lot of instances usable) knowledge to help others, the self rescue component of these first aid courses can literally make the difference between life and death.

[Pedaling Fool]

Squeezebox, you called 911, an emergency number intended for immediate emergency response from police, fire or EMT and expected them to send out just a porter? I think you're the one with unreasonable expectations here.

I agree. 911 service is set up for emergencies. Sometimes asking too little is too much, not the fault of the 911 service.

[Grampie]

Squeezebox, If the 911 call did bring help would you have been willing to pay for that help? Too many folks in the outdoors today think that if they have a cell phone they can just call when they have a problem and someone will come and solve it. The 911 folks are there to help those with real life threatening proplems not hikers who can't, no longer carry their pack.

[Offshore]

2 weeks ago I was climbing down the rock field south of Waynesborough PA, I took a turn behind a tree instead of in front of it. I fell about 3 ft. and fell directly on my shoulder with a 40 lb pack. I was able to scramble back up, but my shoulder was hurt, not able to carry my pack, too much pain. Thinking a while I decided to call 911.

911- 911 can I help you
me - I'm a hiker in a rock field just south of town, I fell about 3 ft off a rock and hurt my shoulder, can you send someone to help me walk out of here?
911- do you need an ambulance?
me- no I need 1 person to carry my pack and help me walk out of here.
911- we can send an ambulance with a team of paramedics, we have the equipment to evacuate you.
me - I can walk. can't you call a local hiking club or outfitter to find someone to help me walk out of here?
911- We don't have those numbers. Don't you need an ambulance?
me - no

They called back in 5 min. and repeated the conversation.
The Park service called back 5 min after that and repeated the conversation.

I waited a while for another hiker to come by. Late in the day, That did not happen, so I put up my tent for the night. luckily there was a fairly flat spot.
In the morning I started packing up, figured someone would come by.
Another call from 911 another call from Park service.
Before finishing packing up 4 experienced day hikers came by. I explained my situation, and asked for help.
1 person took the others pack, 1 took mine, another walked behind me, they decided uphill was shorter. in about 1/4 mile or more we were at the lookout above Waynesborough PA. I called the B&B asked for a ride, another call from Park service. in a bit the B&B lady was there, took me to the doc in a box. No broken collarbone. But the soft tissue damage would take a while to heal. as well as the heel blisters.
I'm still disappointed that 911 is so rigid and is unable to meet peoples needs that are not actually in danger of dying.

But 911 is exactly for IDLH (immediately dangerous to life and health) situations where people are in danger of dying, not general medical transport. The prolonged initial conversation you had with 911 pretty much demonstrates that this was not an IDLH situation.

To quote the NH Hikesafe site:

You are responsible for yourself, so be prepared:

1. With knowledge and gear. Become self reliant by learning about the terrain, conditions, local weather and your equipment before you start.
2. To leave your plans. Tell someone where you are going, the trails you are hiking, when you will return and your emergency plans.
3. To stay together. When you start as a group, hike as a group, end as a group. Pace your hike to the slowest person.
4. To turn back. Weather changes quickly in the mountains. Fatigue and unexpected conditions can also affect your hike. Know your limitations and when to postpone your hike. The mountains will be there another day.
5. For emergencies. Even if you are headed out for just an hour, an injury, severe weather or a wrong turn could become life threatening. Don’t assume you will be rescued; know how to rescue yourself.
6. To share the hiker code with others

Items 2 and 5 apply to your situation in particular. When I hike alone, I always leave my plans with someone at home and text or call when going on and getting off trail. I also carry a SPOT satellite messenger that is set up with an SOS button for true IDLH situations and and second help button that is set to notify my emergency contact that I need assistance (that doesn't rise to the 911 level) at my location.

In this situation, I would have just hidden my pack and walked out rather than spend the night and take the risk that my unassessed injuries might worsen to the level of a true 911 emergency. I am very glad that you were not seriously injured. By sharing this experience, the good that comes from this is that it's a lesson leaned for you and the larger WB community.

[Bronk]

If I knew there was enough daylight to walk to the nearest road I would have left my pack behind and that is what I would have done. Otherwise I would have done what you did...camped the night and walked out the next day. 911 is not a concierge service that will serve up whatever you want. Sounds to me like they went above and beyond what was required of them, checking back with you several times to make sure you were OK. I once met a guy who fell and dislocated his shoulder near Clingman's Dome in late winter before the road was open. He left his pack and walked to Newfound Gap and hitched a ride to the hospital. When he returned 3 days later his pack was right where he left it. Bottom line is you dialed 911 because you didn't want to leave your camping gear behind. In hindsight, doesn't that sound a little ridiculous to you?

[imscotty]

It sounds to me like sound decisions were made by both sides. I think you were right to call and at least make them aware of your situation. Your injury could have been worst than you realized, judgement may have been impaired, it sounds like they were at least monitoring your situation and that is a positive thing.

I also think that they were correct to not utilize emergency services in a non-emergency situation. Resources are always limited. Imagine how you would have felt if an EMT crew was on the trail attending to you and someone elsewhere in the area died because emergency services could not get back out of the woods in time.

It sounds like you did not panic and took care of yourself, which is great. If you needed treatment that very day, abandoning your pack was certainly an option to consider. I am glad to hear that the hiking community (as they often do) were able to help out. I am glad to hear you will be OK.

[Pedaling Fool]

It sounds to me like sound decisions were made by both sides. I think you were right to call and at least make them aware of your situation. Your injury could have been worst than you realized, judgement may have been impaired, it sounds like they were at least monitoring your situation and that is a positive thing.

I also think that they were correct to not utilize emergency services in a non-emergency situation. Resources are always limited. Imagine how you would have felt if an EMT crew was on the trail attending to you and someone elsewhere in the area died because emergency services could not get back out of the woods in time.

It sounds like you did not panic and took care of yourself, which is great. If you needed treatment that very day, abandoning your pack was certainly an option to consider. I am glad to hear that the hiking community (as they often do) were able to help out. I am glad to hear you will be OK.

The Conciliator

[O-H-10 Lil Ohio]

I know this is going to sound kind of Calais, however my own personal opinion is; don't go into the woods if you don't understand what you're getting into when hiking alone. I'm afraid we're going to see much more of these type of threads in the future .People who believe they are entitled to assistance , people who do not truly understand what an emergency is ,what it takes in the way of help and assistance by local , State, and Federal S&R folks.. Assessing a emergency situation on the trail is a skill in its own. For folks heading out on the trails we recommend you join your hiking clubs take the REI courses, NOL, or any other medical courses before going on your hikes Experience is the best teacher ,we all made mistakes on the trail ,our goal is to eliminate these mistakes and have a better understanding so we can truly enjoy the outdoors and the trail.

[Starchild]

...People who believe they are entitled to assistance ....

They are entitled to emergency services (as long as they can be contacted and can be safely and done). It's part of our society structure.

[Violent Green]

This resembles one of those gag posts where someone posts something completely flame worthy and never posts again. "My dog is really aggressive and I don't like putting him on a leash. Will other hikers accept me?" Kind of stuff.


Ryan

[Dochartaigh]

911 is a highly trained professional 24/7 emergency service.

I've found exactly the opposite. The last time I had to call 911 was when I was kayaking in Wharton State Forest in NJ. The fire was a 1/4 mile from Mullica River Camp, a wilderness campground, with officially no car access allowed although emergency vehicles can make it there via sand roads. I called 911 and reported the forest fire. Here's the rough version of the conversation:

Me: "Hi, I'm in Wharton State Forest and there's a forest fire, I can give you GPS coordinates of where it is."

911 Operator: "What is the address of the fire?"

"I'm in a state forest, there aren't any addresses back here. It's off Mullica Road –a sand access–, about 1/4 mile north of Mullica River Camp, I can give you the exact GPS coordinates of the fire."

"What is the address or cross streets of the fire?"

"I'm in a state forest. There is nothing around here for 10+ miles except for trees, the only road is a dirt road – Mullica River Rd, about a 1/4 mile north of Mullica River Camp. I can give you GPS coordinates"

....it went literally on and on with her asking me about 6 or 7 times for the address as the fire grew in size. I finally said something like "listen, you're on a computer right? With internet access? Why don't you plug these coordinates into Google Maps and it'll show you exactly where the fire is." I guess I got a little testy (I don't know why....it was only a forest fire surrounding me and growing and she finally transferred me to the local fire company which started in with the SAME EXACT "what's the address?" bull****.

--now keep in mind Wharton State Forest is famous for their forest fires. There's several larger ones every single year it seems. The fire department knows all the landmarks in the park, yet still refused to take anything but a street address to send people out. After about 2 or 3 minutes of this BS I literally said "F this" and hung up. Called the park ranger, had a 10 second conversation with him to which he replied "Yeah, 911 and the fire department are useless. I know exactly where that is. I'll send somebody out."

The worst part was the fire department didn't put out anything but decided to do a "controlled burn" which means they burn down all the undergrowth and leave the fire smoking and smoldering all night long and didn't even leave someone overnight to make sure it didn't flare-up again. The campers loved that and the fog of smoke we breathed in all night long...