ZPacks Arc Haul or ULA Circuit?

[Mountain Wildman]

Hello Hikers,
I'm looing for advice on the ZPacks Arc Haul vs. the ULA Circuit backpack, especially from those who already have the Arc Haul since I have not been able to find many reviews on it. I've narrowed it down to these two packs, I'm hoping to thru-hike the A.T. next year and my current pack weight is 25 lbs. without food and water. I may be able to cut it down a couple of pounds if I eliminate some luxuries. My current pack is a Mystery Ranch Trance XXX which accounts for 4 1/2 pounds of the 25 lbs.
I may just use it on my thru-hike but switching to a 26 oz. Arc Haul or 2 1/2 lb. Circuit would be an easy way to trim 2 to 3 lbs. off of my total pack weight.
I would like the pack to last longer than one thru-hike and I'm not sure how durable the ZPacks Arc Haul would be, I've seen many reviews of ULA packs and they seem to be very durable.
25 to 35 lbs. should not be a problem for me to carry but less is better, right?
Thank you for any advice!

[gbolt]

I am carrying a little lighter weight than you are, so I went with the ULA Ohm. Like you, I really considered the ZPacks options; however the data was very incomplete. The one person that gave a good review but stated that the Zpack was worn after his thruhike was a YouTube guy named RedBeard. He is doing the PCT right now and I believe he is using the same pack.

So why did I chose ULA. It was a cost and timing issue. I did not want to put out the cost for a Thru Hike that may not occur for three or four more years. It I was leaving this spring or next, I may have decided differently.

The ULA is more traditional with straps and adjustments that I still wanted, yet, on a lighter weight pack. The Ohm 2.0 comes in at 29 oz. Cuben Fiber is expensive so I decided not to purchase at this time.

My advice is for you to decide what your overall purpose for the purchase is going to be. Mine include many trips and years before the Thru. The ULA met my needs at the price I was willing to pay. I did the same thing with an Edge Tarp vs. the HG 3S Cuben Fiber Palace. I am sure I will purchase that Tarp at a later date when my Thru Hike is confirmed.

In my opinion your weight may be too heavy for the Zpack. The Circuit is the right call for what you are currently carrying. Weight should be a major consideration in your choice as well.

[saltysack]

I don't have any experience with the zpacks pack personally but I do have one of their cuben food bags which is definitely wearing much faster than any material on my circuit...With your current weight you are near the max load of either pack if you add food and water for a multi day trip. U should easily get base under 16lbs. Both companies have great support but ULA has my vote...however I'm not a gram weenie...my avg base wt is around 12-14lbs depending on season.


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[MuddyWaters]

If the circuit fits you its great. The 3 torso lengths dont fit everyone, and raising the belt on a long torso is a really bad way to adjust.
The zpacks can be bought in the length you need. Dont underestimate the difference it can make.

Ive got an Ohm, and a circuit, and my goto pack is my arc blast, if that says anything. Water resistance is a huge +, thats most of the reason got the arc.

[Coffee]

The circuit is a great pack and very durable. After 2200 miles on mine the only wear is a tiny hole at the very bottom that I'm patching with tenacious tape and the hip belt pockets. It is a terrific pack. That being said, the arc haul looks amazing as well and should wear much more slowly than a cuben pack like the arc blast. I have a Zpacks tent and other products and they make great gear.

[Mountain Wildman]

Thanks for the responses, I have seen Red beard's review of the Arc Blast and I have several cuben sacks. They do wear through with hard item contact which is why I was looking at the Dyneema Arc Haul. ULA seems to be a more tried and true option but the Arc Haul is a pound lighter than the Circuit.

[MuddyWaters]

I have had hard items cause wear damage on arc blast, including the frame itself. Cuben hybrid is not indestructible.

It is easily repaired,quickly and permantly, with tape and adhesive patches.

Gear doesnt need to last forever.

I cant speak of the arc haul, but the arc blast is a great pack for 15-25 lbs. The simple hipbelt is very comfortable and snug. The design keeps hard items off back without padding. It doesnt lean away, or need load lifters at all with right torso length. Theres something very "right" about how it petforms.

I would try them both, return the one you like least.

[bigcranky]

I have both packs. My Arc Haul arrived this week, and goes on its maiden voyage over the holiday. I have used the Circuit for more than five years, and there are three of them in the house....

Some thoughts after initial loading of the new pack:

1. They are both well made, as I would expect.

2. The Arc Haul appears to have a larger main compartment. It's made entirely of the Dyneema fabric, and is totally seam taped on the inside (!!!). The Arc Haul also has a better side compression system (similar to the ULA Ohm). The larger main bag cuts both ways, of course -- I won't be able to fill it during summer hikes, but it will work great in the winter, and I am trying to own only one pack.

3. I think I am going to love the Arc system, which gets the pack body away from my back. The Circuit is a very sweaty pack on me, my back is always soaking wet even in the dead of winter.

4. I got the "Tall" Arc Haul, having used Tall ULA packs. According to Zpacks, there is no difference in the pack body itself, but the frame is a couple of inches longer. I'm not that tall (only 6-1) but I have a long torso. The Arc Haul fits much better than the Circuit, as it puts the top of the frame just above my shoulders. The load lifters work much better in that position. If you are trying to figure out what size to order, email Zpacks, they are very helpful.

If I were to totally fill the pack all the way to the top, it would look like it does in the photos on the Zpacks page, coming up to the middle of Joe's head. I don't expect I will fill it that far

5. All the webbing on the Arc Haul is very narrow and somewhat stiff, and doesn't move through the buckles very easily. So, for example, trying to loosen the load lifters isn't all that easy. I'm assuming this will get better with use. Also, the webbing that makes up the lower half of the shoulder strap is too short on my pack, though it is easily user-replaceable. (In fact, the Zpacks stuff is designed so that pretty much any part can be removed or replaced withiut cutting it off -- I like that.)

6. Comfort -- the Arc Haul feels great in my living room, but beyond that I can't comment. I will say I like the full wrap hip belt, and the overall suspension feels good. Given a very cursory test drive, it does feel like it will handle the ~30 lb loads leaving town somewhat better than my Circuit, though that was no slouch.

I've been beating on my current Circuit for four or five years now, and it's time to replace it. (For one thing, much of the fabric was delaminating and I couldn't keep water out on our LT hike last summer.) I was planning to get a new Circuit, a custom job with all Robic fabric and the little features that I like (e.g. the stretchy front pocket), but the Arc Haul just called my name for some reason. We'll see how it goes next week and provide an updated report.

[bigcranky]

Let me add that, to answer some of the posts above, the Arc Haul is not made of Cuben fiber, it's all Dyneema ripstop. It comes in two sizes, and the suspension is adjustable by moving the top of the shoulder straps.

[Coffee]

One thing to keep in mind when comparing weights on the Arc Haul vs. the Circuit is the fact that the Circuit's stated weight includes a number of things that are optional on the Arc Haul.

My Circuit (large torso, small hip belt) weighs just under 38 ounces stripped of the features that I do not use (I removed the hand loops, water bottle shoulder strap loops, hydration bladder holder, and small mesh pouch).

For an apples to apples comparison of my Circuit to an equally featured Arc Haul, I calculate as follows:

Arc Haul base advertised weight: 24 ounces
Add 2 Belt pouches (standard on Circuit): 1.5 ounces
Add ice axe loops (standard on Circuit): 0.2 ounces
Add shock cord lashing (standard on Circuit): 0.5 ounces

Total: 26.2 ounces

Also we should note that the Circuit's advertised capacity is 68 liters vs. the 60 liters for the Arc Haul, although perhaps importantly, more of the capacity in the Arc Haul is in the main compartment vs. the Circuit. If we look at the weight per liter of capacity for the Circuit, it is 38/68, or 0.56 ounces per liter of capacity. For the Arc Haul it is 26.2/60, or 0.44 ounces per liter.

There is a significant price difference as well. The Circuit is $225, or around $240 shipped. The Arc Haul, as optioned above, would be close to $360 with free shipping. I could almost buy a Circuit and a CDT for the cost of the Arc Haul adding versatility to my packing options.

Overall it is pretty clear to me that the Arc Haul would cut around 12 ounces vs the Circuit based on the way that I would option the Arc Haul. So the $120 premium in price for the Arc Haul would save 12 ounces, or around $10/ounce which isn't too bad compared to the cost of saving ounces in lots of other areas.

And the Arc Haul is a pretty tempting pack, although I think that for the weight that I aspire to carry on long hikes in the future the 60L Arc Blast is more likely to be my choice. I'd expect more reviews of the Arc Haul to appear soon. The Circuit on the other hand is a long proven design. It would be the more conservative choice IMO.

[Mountain Wildman]

I have both packs. My Arc Haul arrived this week, and goes on its maiden voyage over the holiday. I have used the Circuit for more than five years, and there are three of them in the house....

Some thoughts after initial loading of the new pack:

1. They are both well made, as I would expect.

2. The Arc Haul appears to have a larger main compartment. It's made entirely of the Dyneema fabric, and is totally seam taped on the inside (!!!). The Arc Haul also has a better side compression system (similar to the ULA Ohm). The larger main bag cuts both ways, of course -- I won't be able to fill it during summer hikes, but it will work great in the winter, and I am trying to own only one pack.

3. I think I am going to love the Arc system, which gets the pack body away from my back. The Circuit is a very sweaty pack on me, my back is always soaking wet even in the dead of winter.

4. I got the "Tall" Arc Haul, having used Tall ULA packs. According to Zpacks, there is no difference in the pack body itself, but the frame is a couple of inches longer. I'm not that tall (only 6-1) but I have a long torso. The Arc Haul fits much better than the Circuit, as it puts the top of the frame just above my shoulders. The load lifters work much better in that position. If you are trying to figure out what size to order, email Zpacks, they are very helpful.

If I were to totally fill the pack all the way to the top, it would look like it does in the photos on the Zpacks page, coming up to the middle of Joe's head. I don't expect I will fill it that far

5. All the webbing on the Arc Haul is very narrow and somewhat stiff, and doesn't move through the buckles very easily. So, for example, trying to loosen the load lifters isn't all that easy. I'm assuming this will get better with use. Also, the webbing that makes up the lower half of the shoulder strap is too short on my pack, though it is easily user-replaceable. (In fact, the Zpacks stuff is designed so that pretty much any part can be removed or replaced withiut cutting it off -- I like that.)

6. Comfort -- the Arc Haul feels great in my living room, but beyond that I can't comment. I will say I like the full wrap hip belt, and the overall suspension feels good. Given a very cursory test drive, it does feel like it will handle the ~30 lb loads leaving town somewhat better than my Circuit, though that was no slouch.

I've been beating on my current Circuit for four or five years now, and it's time to replace it. (For one thing, much of the fabric was delaminating and I couldn't keep water out on our LT hike last summer.) I was planning to get a new Circuit, a custom job with all Robic fabric and the little features that I like (e.g. the stretchy front pocket), but the Arc Haul just called my name for some reason. We'll see how it goes next week and provide an updated report.

Thanks for your insight, I hope you will post your thoughts after your trip.

[Mountain Wildman]

One thing to keep in mind when comparing weights on the Arc Haul vs. the Circuit is the fact that the Circuit's stated weight includes a number of things that are optional on the Arc Haul.

My Circuit (large torso, small hip belt) weighs just under 38 ounces stripped of the features that I do not use (I removed the hand loops, water bottle shoulder strap loops, hydration bladder holder, and small mesh pouch).

For an apples to apples comparison of my Circuit to an equally featured Arc Haul, I calculate as follows:

Arc Haul base advertised weight: 24 ounces
Add 2 Belt pouches (standard on Circuit): 1.5 ounces
Add ice axe loops (standard on Circuit): 0.2 ounces
Add shock cord lashing (standard on Circuit): 0.5 ounces

Total: 26.2 ounces

Also we should note that the Circuit's advertised capacity is 68 liters vs. the 60 liters for the Arc Haul, although perhaps importantly, more of the capacity in the Arc Haul is in the main compartment vs. the Circuit. If we look at the weight per liter of capacity for the Circuit, it is 38/68, or 0.56 ounces per liter of capacity. For the Arc Haul it is 26.2/60, or 0.44 ounces per liter.

There is a significant price difference as well. The Circuit is $225, or around $240 shipped. The Arc Haul, as optioned above, would be close to $360 with free shipping. I could almost buy a Circuit and a CDT for the cost of the Arc Haul adding versatility to my packing options.

Overall it is pretty clear to me that the Arc Haul would cut around 12 ounces vs the Circuit based on the way that I would option the Arc Haul. So the $120 premium in price for the Arc Haul would save 12 ounces, or around $10/ounce which isn't too bad compared to the cost of saving ounces in lots of other areas.

And the Arc Haul is a pretty tempting pack, although I think that for the weight that I aspire to carry on long hikes in the future the 60L Arc Blast is more likely to be my choice. I'd expect more reviews of the Arc Haul to appear soon. The Circuit on the other hand is a long proven design. It would be the more conservative choice IMO.

Thanks Coffee,
I did the same calculations but without the cost per ounce and came to the same conclusions. Cost is a consideration but the 2 packs I already own cost more than the Arc Haul.
It would be worth it to me for the weight savings but not if it only lasts for one thru-hike since I may want to do the PCT after the A.T.

[Back on the trail]

I just got back a couple weeks ago from hiking N.J. with my Circuit. Scale weighted at 30 lbs with five days food and two liters of water. Didn't know the pack was there except for maybe rattlesnake mnt. were you have to really climb up or down. I'm a bigger guy @ 6'2" 245. The Medium torso medium belt fits me great. While I don't think I would have had the space to add five pounds more of gear I'm sure that it would be comfortable to hike with from my last outing with this pack. Like I said I really did not know the pack was there most of the day.

[cjayflo]

http://store.seekoutside.com/divide-...ht-gray-x21rc/
Ever look at these guys?


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[Mountain Wildman]

http://store.seekoutside.com/divide-...ht-gray-x21rc/
Ever look at these guys?


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Yes I have been looking at the Unaweep, I have to do more reading to understand how to configure it.

[cjayflo]

This link is for the divide pack. A bit more hiker oriented and lighter than the unaweep. You can get a talon and a lid but the divide comes with a mesh pocket. I can do a review in August. They promised to have one to me by the 28th for a 5 day trip I have coming up.


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[Mountain Wildman]

This link is for the divide pack. A bit more hiker oriented and lighter than the unaweep. You can get a talon and a lid but the divide comes with a mesh pocket. I can do a review in August. They promised to have one to me by the 28th for a 5 day trip I have coming up.


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The Divide 4200 looks pretty good.

I'll watch for your review of the 3000.

[Laughter95]

Really thinking about upgrading from the ULA Circuit. The pack has been great in the past year of ownership but I have a couple gripes:

1. When I have to carry 4-6 liters of water, there's more weight on the shoulders.
2. The connection between the center metal stay and the hipbelt isn't solid enough, thus there is some collapsing next to where the frame attaches to the hipbelt by velcro.

My baseweight is 12-13 lbs between fall and summer. If I need to carry 6 liters of water, the pack does get a bit uncomfortable. I'm curious if the Arc Haul will solve these issues. I think if the frame were burlier and the connection between the hipbelt and the frame were more solid, a user would benefit from a more comfortable carry.

But the new Arc Haul with trekking pole holders, ice axe loops, and belt pouches is $356. The ULA Circuit shipped was $238. That's basically 1.5x the cost of the Circuit.

And I am leaning toward the Arc Haul as opposed to the Arc Blast because I like the peace of mind of having more durable fabric as opposed to having to be super dainty whenever I crouch under a rock or set my pack down.

[bigcranky]

I used my Arc Haul on a six day hike in SW Virginia earlier this month (Atkins to Damascus), and meant to post my thoughts.

Short version: I think it's a very capable pack. Having used the Circuit for five or six years, the Arc Haul is different -- it carries differently, and it requires some slightly different packing, but they are pretty comparable. The Arc Haul seems to carry 30 pounds slightly better than the Circuit, but they are very close. I did find myself tweaking the ride multiple times per day, trying to find the right balance between hip belt and shoulder straps for the weight, but after a few days I had it pretty well dialed in.

I am going to cut and paste what I posted elsewhere:

------------

Just did a six day, 75 mile section in Virginia with the Arc Haul. I have not used any other Arc packs from Zpacks -- I've used a couple of Circuits for the last five or six years, and a Six Moons pack before that.

My base weight is not ultralight, it's 15 or 16 pounds in the summer with a two person tent (SMD Lunar Duo or Zpacks Hexamid Twin), two person cook kit, clothing, camera, etc. So I want something that will carry 30 with a full load of food and water. So for me, the Cuben Arc Blast is not going to work well, I think (edit: based on the recommended total weight).

The Arc Haul fits and wears well. It took a couple of days to dial everything in the way I liked -- the shoulder straps are adjustable, and I moved them around a few times until it felt right. The hip belt is comfortable, but it's softer than the Circuit hip belt. The hip belt pockets are terrific, and seam taped with waterproof zippers! I think my heaviest load was maybe 28 pounds or so, might have been 30 with a full load of food and water. Very comfortable.

The design of the pack is well thought out -- lots of items can be removed and replaced without cutting, like the sternum strap. We did not get rained on while hiking, so I can't comment on the seam taping of the inside of the pack, but I am hopeful that will work well. The mesh back panel seemed to work to keep my back a little drier, but the weather was warm and humid so I got pretty wet anyway. I did not use anywhere near the full capacity even with my tent inside (SMD Lunar Duo) and a full food bag, but the compression system works pretty well. I do need to see how my winter bag fits, but it should be fine.

Had a couple of problems. The Arc suspension is created by pulling a cord attached between the frame and the mesh back panel using an adjuster and a bowline knot. It's under considerable tension when in use. One of the corner bowlines popped out while hiking on the second day, and a brief inspection showed two others ready to do the same. The "tail" was too short and it was pulling itself apart under load. Easy to fix - I took apart the knot, loosened everything, and tied new bowlines with longer tails and stopper knots. (I like "field repairable.") Zpacks is sending me new, longer cord so I can re-tie all four corners, and Joe said he'll ask the pack makers to leave a longer tail on the knot. The other issue was the webbing on the lower part of the shoulder strap was too short and came apart a couple of times when I loosened the strap to take off the pack -- they are sending me longer webbing, which is easily replaceable (not sewn on).

So I think it carries a 30 pound load better than the Circuit in some respects. The load lifters actually work, for one thing, and the mesh back panel is great. I was concerned that the front mesh pocket was not large enough -- and sure thing, it's not really big enough to hold my tent and all my other crap that ends up there, so I put my tent in a seam taped roll top stuff sack inside the pack, and the front pocket was fine. The capacity of the pack is pretty big - my summer gear came nowhere near filling it, but I left my quilt unstuffed and put the tent inside, and then used the side compression straps, and it was fine.

Given what I have seen on the trail, and my experience with my Cuben fiber food bag and pack liners, I would not get a pack made from Cuben fiber, but this pack in Dyneema seems to be very well put together. I do think I need to be careful with the carbon fiber stays - they are on the outside of the pack and I think they could snap if hit in the right way, especially since the Arc frame puts them under a lot of tension. So maybe this pack is a little more delicate? I don't know that for sure. (And almost everything is user replaceable and much of it can be repaired in the field.)

So if you've transitioned the other gear to lighter stuff, and your base weight is 15 or so, then I think this is a pretty good choice. I do like the Circuit, too, and as noted elsewhere it's the more conservative choice (thousands of Circuits on the trails out there). But this rides well, and I like the real waterproof nature (seam taped, roll top) though I still put my clothing and bag in a waterproof liner bag.

-----------------

[bigcranky]

My baseweight is 12-13 lbs between fall and summer. If I need to carry 6 liters of water, the pack does get a bit uncomfortable. I'm curious if the Arc Haul will solve these issues. I think if the frame were burlier and the connection between the hipbelt and the frame were more solid, a user would benefit from a more comfortable carry.

I don't know that the Arc Haul will fix this. The frame does not appear significantly stronger than the Circuit, and the hip belt is softer. Also there are no hip belt stabilizer straps, which on the Circuit can be used to tighten the connection between the pack and the hip belt (with some loss in flexibility). (Also, my personal problem is that I have no hips so the hip belt tends to slide down, putting more weight on the shoulders, and this is true with any pack, so YMMV.)

It does appear the Arc Haul suspension is improved over the Arc Blast, with the full wrap hip belt and the extra cross bar. Given the Dyneema fabric, I think overall it's a well made and well thought out pack. What I don't know even after using it for a week is whether it is substantially better with 30 pounds than the Circuit -- they are certainly very similar.

So then the question becomes, are the Arc Haul features worth a 50% additional cost? Seam taped construction, arc frame with mesh back panel, 10 ounces lighter, working load lifters, etc.

As noted above, the Circuit is the conservative choice (which makes me giggle, since cottage gear was so "out there" just a few years ago when Gregory and others were the conservative choice).

Edit: just to make sure, if it's not clear from these two posts, I really like this new pack. I'm just being thorough; all my minor gripes and asides are just that -- minor. I would have plenty of minor gripes if I reviewed a new Circuit.