Some might disagree with the claim that the wealthy Mr. Baxter ever "owned" Mt. Katahdin and the surrounding 200,000 acres to begin with.
Given the current donnybrook, I think it would probably take an act of Congress to establish Katahdin as the start of the Appalachian National Scenic Trail.Originally Posted by BirdBrain
Oh, wait.
Don't take it personally. It isn't you that is the problem. The problem is ignorance. Ignorance of what BSP is and why. Ignorance of their rules and why they have them. Ignorance of how each person who flies their freak flag by ignoring the rules cumulatively adds up to destruction of a fragile, alpine zone. Ignorance of how the native peoples said that visiting Katahdin would anger Pamola. Ignorance of how those who tread there should walk with respect for the mountain.
I don't think people really think you personally are the problem. You just seem to be representing it at the moment.
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http://www.fs.fed.us/cdt/management/...ded_033009.htmSEC. 5. [16USC1244] (a) National scenic and national historic trails shall be authorized and designated only by Act of Congress. There are hereby established the following National Scenic and National Historic Trails:
(1) The Appalachian National Scenic Trail, a trail of approximately two thousand miles extending generally along the Appalachian Mountains from Mount Katahdin, Maine, to Springer Mountain, Georgia. Insofar as practicable, the right-of-way for such trail shall comprise the trail depicted on the maps identified as "Nationwide System of Trails, Proposed Appalachian Trail, NST-AT-101-May 1967", which shall be on file and available for public inspection in the office of the Director of the National Park Service. Where practicable, such rights-of-way shall include lands protected for it under agreements in effect as of the date of enactment of this Act, to which Federal agencies and States were parties. The Appalachian Trail shall be administered primarily as a footpath by the Secretary of the Interior, in consultation with the Secretary of Agriculture.
Doza, I am sorry if I came off as harsh. By no means are people who disagree with me 'a problem.' 'The problem' is with those who do not care about BSP, their mission, or their wishes. To write off breaking the rules as BSP's problem will lead this down a road that I do not want to see traveled.
I say with heartfelt sincerity that I think it is the hikers that think their wants and their wishes should trump whatever the rules and sensibilities are of the parks, the towns, and the communities they go through, that are the problem. The people of Georgia should not have to put up with piles of trash and waste left on the trail by those who do not know any better or care. The people of Damascus should not have to put up with drunks and drugs at 'The Place' when it is their wish that it not be so, and the people of Maine deserve to have the rules of their beautiful and sacred park honored. It is called courtesy. We have already lost good relations with segments of the trail community due to the entitlement mentality of some thru hikers. Look at all the Hostels that are now closed. I would hate to loose Katahdin as the northern terminus of the AT.
By way of analogy, if I came into your home and flouted the rules of the house, well I would deserve to be shown the door. 'The problem' is not the homeowners rules, the problem is with the disrespectful guest who thinks the rules should not apply to him.
Part of HYOH implies that you allow others to Hike Their Own Hike. When you do things that take away from the experience of others, that is thoughtless and selfish. Baxter is trying to preserve the wilderness experience for all its visitors. One hikers celebration should never trump the enjoyment of others. We can all enjoy the trail and these special places in our own ways. It does not take too much effort to take in account the enjoyment of others when we do so. The problem is not with BSP's rules, it is with people who think that their wants should trump everyone around them, and it is with the people who think BSP needs to change to accommodate an individuals wants.
im scotty and birdbrain, I so agree with you both. The attitude of self entitlement and I don't give a damn attitude of not all but too many AT thru hikers is going to very much impact the AT thru hike experience. Katahdin is the culmination of the hike and the most spectacular mountain in the most spectacular park on the trail or anywhere else in the northeast for that matter. Its a wilderness first and an AT destination second. If thru hikers could recognize that just because they've hiked 2000+ miles doesn't make them better or more deserving than other hikers and park visitors life would be so much better. Personally, I think it is a matter of time.. maybe a few years or less till Baxter State Park gives the AT the boot. Maybe some will be happy about that (what? you wanna impose regulations on me?) but for people who truly care about nature and wilderness it would be all for the best. There are or should be limits to this hike your own hike mantra!
I am having a hard time walking away from this thread. I think I grasp your point. Those that were here before us never thought anyone could or should own that hill. It is sacred ground. It is an affront to those that loved that hill long before we ever saw it to even step foot on it. Baxter's vision keeps it as close to respecting it than any other plan short of banning all from going up it. When I see that hill, I try to have some reverence for it. It is not just an end to a walk. It is not just a beautiful hill. It is hallowed ground. It certainly is not a party spot.
In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years. - Abraham Lincoln
Last edited by Just Bill; 07-16-2015 at 17:39.
After seeing the actions of SJ and his crew, and the attitudes of some of the posters here defending those actions, I'm OK with closing the park to the AT. As far as I'm concerned, it's done.
AK, I think you would have fit right in with the folks who wrote this...
It shall be the object of the Baxter State Park Authority to preserve the grandeur and beauty of Maine's highest peak, Mount Katahdin, as well as the 45 other mountains, the numerous lakes, ponds and streams; to subordinate its own wishes to the intent of Governor Baxter; to recognize his wish that, in this era of change, one thing of natural beauty remain constant. [1971, c. 477, §1 (NEW).]
This intent must be interpreted so as not to separate this park from the people to whom it was given; but rather seek to have it enjoyed and "used to the fullest extent but in the right unspoiled manner." [1971, c. 477, §1(NEW).]
I don't see how Scott was in violation.
PS seriously If Scott had celebrated with a 2 liter of Coke would it have made any difference to families with children (which seems to be their main concern when alcohol is involved)
They would to better to focus their attention on that painted rock at the entrance.
A good power wash followed by a light spray of milk would probably do the trick.
That's not in BSPThey would to better to focus their attention on that painted rock at the entrance.
A good power wash followed by a light spray of milk would probably do the trick.
I think I understand. Issue the citations to everyone who breaks their rules. That's understandable, just like when I go 1 mph over the speed limit, pull me over and give me a ticket. I broke the law and will take my fine.
However, to go along with your analogy. If you knew a cool friend was coming over, would you not prepare your house in a manner for him?
Pretty much the whole world, at least my world, was watching Scott Jurek. I am surprised they, from what I know of, prepared nothing for themselves to benefit from this trek. But I guess that's what happens when the government runs things.
I don't care how cool my friend is, if he wanted to use my house for something I objected to, no I would not prepare my home so he could do things I objected to... and neither would you. Baxter doesn't cater parties. That is not part of their vision.
In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years. - Abraham Lincoln
Baloney. They violated multiple clearly published rules, and got caught/documented/publicized it. If you can't do the crime.....
I find your forgiveness of him interesting given your vitriol towards properly permitted rule abiding running events (JFK for example)?
Solent "If you knew a cool friend was coming over, would you not prepare your house in a manner for him?"
That is exactly what BSP is trying to do. We just disagree about what defines a cool friend. My cool friends don't disrespect my home, and violate my rules. Cool friends act like guests. See also: The Place, Palmerton Jail House, Hiker Heaven, and come next year Casa de Luna, and Ziggy and the Bear's.
This whole thing is making me ill.
Just had a thought: let's help save Katahdin by reducing the # of dingbats. How to do that? Get rid of the shelters.
You took my remark out of context. It was in response to the quote.
You'll have to remind me of my "vitriol" concerning the JFK, but no I don't think the trail should be used in a organized race with nearly 1000 runnersThis intent must be interpreted so as not to separate this park from the people to whom it was given; but rather seek to have it enjoyed and "used to the fullest extent but in the right unspoiled manner." [1971, c. 477, §1(NEW).]
Donna closed Hiker Heaven on her own accord, when it was pointed out (incorrectly IMO) that it was causing a bottle-neck or herd effect on the trail, not because of unruly hikers.
Huh? The park officials never invited him over, he just showed up on his own accord. Their employees are there to further the stated goals of the park, not act as a hotel concierge to those who use choose the park for their own means. Scott's a cool guy, but he screwed up, that's the long and short of it.
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