the down side of Scott Jurek's record AT hike-- Baxter state park condemnation

[DavidNH]

Before you all get too impressed about Scott Jurek, you should read the view from Baxter State Park officials.

https://www.facebook.com/baxterstate...82502611969384



BSP officials mention that Scott actually got 3 summons from BSP (drinking alcohol near summit, hiking with oversized group, and littering).



If thru hikers keep it up (and I see no reason why they won't) it's a matter of time, and not all that long in my view, till Baxter State Park officials block the AT from the park all together. The trail could well end at Abol Bridge or maybe at one of the peaks south of there. The thru hiker experience would never again be the same.



DavidNH

[peakbagger]

I am disappointed also. Since it was a carefully orchestrated media event, there is no excuse in breaking established rules. Every car entering the park is handed the rules.I expect some low level member of the media team will apologize and insist that the runner was not aware of the infractions and that this shouldn't in any way be held against the record.

So I wonder if the FKT announcement gets the dreaded asterisk?

[colorado_rob]

So I wonder if the FKT announcement gets the dreaded asterisk?

An asterisk???? What for again?

WhatEVer.

Was Scott himself actually to blame? Does anyone know if HE encouraged such a circus other than because he was doing something spectacular? Did he haul that EVIL bottle of bubbly that so many tea-tottlers on here are so worked up about? What would you do on the summit... refuse the bottle handed to you? Go right over to a park official and report such a dastardly deed?

Or are WE here on WB more to blame with our never-ending banter about his speed attempt, fanning the media/circus flames even more than they were.

A whole lot to do about essentially nothing. Point noted, BSP; future NOBO speed attempts will simply have to be more careful with their entourage. the likely hood of BSP closing to the AT is essentially zero. Get real.

[peakbagger]

An asterisk???? What for again?

WhatEVer.

Was Scott himself actually to blame? Does anyone know if HE encouraged such a circus other than because he was doing something spectacular? Did he haul that EVIL bottle of bubbly that so many tea-tottlers on here are so worked up about? What would you do on the summit... refuse the bottle handed to you? Go right over to a park official and report such a dastardly deed?

Or are WE here on WB more to blame with our never-ending banter about his speed attempt, fanning the media/circus flames even more than they were.

A whole lot to do about essentially nothing. Point noted, BSP; future NOBO speed attempts will simply have to be more careful with their entourage. the likely hood of BSP closing to the AT is essentially zero. Get real.

We are getting real, BSP issued a rather pointed letter calling out long term issues to the ATC last fall and basically said to ATC, "its your mess clean it up" The founder of the IAT attempted to circumvent park regs when it was initially laid out and ended up being not allowed in the park, if you check out their maps, the trail starts at the easterly park boundary line. It really wouldn't be that hard to close the one connecting trail from Abol Bridge and invite anyone wanting to go climb the mountain to have reservations in hand.

The parks comments pretty well established that Scott Jurek "INC" is not an individual but a sponsored campaign with a talented individual as a "brand". That individual has the responsibility to follow the well established rules or delegate someone that is responsible to do so. This apparently didn't happen.

There have been other media events in the park in the past where the participants read the rules and followed them. The park isn't adverse to media events, they just want to manage them to minimize impact. There is a policy in place to deal with these events and the inevitable spin off issues that will occur. I expect that if the folks managing the run had talked to park staff in advance they would have gotten advice to minimize the impact and the park could have been proactive in dealing with the subsidiary issues. The actual staff in the park don't have internet or much access to media, I expect they didn't get a lot of notice and just ended up getting mobbed. They run very lean with staff during the summer and freeing up folks to deal with a media circus is not easy.

Every drive in visitor to the park is handed a set of the official rules. There are (or were) rules posted at the Abol Bridge entrance to the park. A lot of folks get confused by the name of the area. It is actually a wilderness preserve managed primarily as forever wild where visitors are limited. The rules were set in place by the individual who bought the land and donated it to the state. He structured the donation so that it is extremely difficult to expand use of the park and in general the parks management over the years is to limit abuse of the Baxter Peak as it the major attraction of the park. The interesting thing about the park is there are large number of individuals and some groups that are not afraid to litigate when they perceive the park is operating outside of the deeds of trust and subsequent interpretations, even if the park wanted to allow a more zoo like atmosphere, they would be hauled into court. It has happened in the past. Many people object to the rules in place and vilify the park authority and the rangers who enforce the rules. For the folks who do follow the rules we don't mind as it makes more room for us.

A general observation is that true Mainers (not the relocated mass folks in the three southern counties) can be contrary by nature, try to push something on them and they can push back.


If the asterisk is not wanted I guess we can all look forward to the repeat event.

[TJ aka Teej]

peakbagger, that asterisk would be well deserved.

An additional discouraging observation. The Appalachian Trail provided the challenge and backdrop for this event and consequently, provided the conduit for this event to land in Baxter Park. The profile of the AT is large enough to attract the corporate sponsorship necessary to support and carry such an event. The AT is apparently comfortable with the fit of this type of event in its mission. The formal federal designation and authority of the Appalachian Trial does not extend into Baxter State Park. The AT within the Park is hosted at the consideration of the Baxter State Park Authority. The Authority is currently considering the increasing pressures, impacts and conflicts that the Appalachian Trail brings to the Park and if a continued relationship is in the best interests of Baxter State Park.

I'm all for the AT ending outside the Park. Close the Birches. Let ATers make reservations if they want to visit, just like everyone else.

[Lone Wolf]

peakbagger, that asterisk would be well deserved.



I'm all for the AT ending outside the Park. Close the Birches. Let ATers make reservations if they want to visit, just like everyone else.

agree. end it at abol bridge. from there on blue-blaze the trail to katahdin

[TearDrop1776]

peakbagger, that asterisk would be well deserved.



I'm all for the AT ending outside the Park. Close the Birches. Let ATers make reservations if they want to visit, just like everyone else.

You are out of your mind if you think the asterick is well deserved. What happened at the end has NOTHING to do with the speed record or what he accomplished. Also, the truth is that if you close the AT to that Park, that park will barely be visited ever again. You're telling me that the hype around Baxter isn't around Khatadin and it being the Northern Terminus? C'mon with the jokes.

[egilbe]

You are out of your mind if you think the asterick is well deserved. What happened at the end has NOTHING to do with the speed record or what he accomplished. Also, the truth is that if you close the AT to that Park, that park will barely be visited ever again. You're telling me that the hype around Baxter isn't around Khatadin and it being the Northern Terminus? C'mon with the jokes.

Where do you get the idea that the park will barely be visited ever again? They limit access to the park to keep it in as wild a condition as possible. People are turned away at the entrance. 70,000 people visit the park every year and only ~500 even care about the AT at all. BSP will be happier, the impact to the park will be considerably lessened and it will not affect the park negatively and will only be a net gain.

[BirdBrain]

Where do you get the idea that the park will barely be visited ever again? They limit access to the park to keep it in as wild a condition as possible. People are turned away at the entrance. 70,000 people visit the park every year and only ~500 even care about the AT at all. BSP will be happier, the impact to the park will be considerably lessened and it will not affect the park negatively and will only be a net gain.

This is a fact thru's don't grasp. We can barely get in doing it the right way Thru's are 3% and offer nothing but a burden. Yet we allow them in free and unannounced. Thru's are delusional.

[TearDrop1776]

Where do you get the idea that the park will barely be visited ever again? They limit access to the park to keep it in as wild a condition as possible. People are turned away at the entrance. 70,000 people visit the park every year and only ~500 even care about the AT at all. BSP will be happier, the impact to the park will be considerably lessened and it will not affect the park negatively and will only be a net gain.

Touche' ... I can't argue them statistics.

[JumpMaster Blaster]

Where do you get the idea that the park will barely be visited ever again? They limit access to the park to keep it in as wild a condition as possible. People are turned away at the entrance. 70,000 people visit the park every year and only ~500 even care about the AT at all. BSP will be happier, the impact to the park will be considerably lessened and it will not affect the park negatively and will only be a net gain.

That's the mentality. If I'm doing it, the universe is centered around me. If I'm not doing it, it isn't important; it ceases to exist.

Such a shame, that uber-special, narcissistic personality.

[Traveler]

You are out of your mind if you think the asterick is well deserved. What happened at the end has NOTHING to do with the speed record or what he accomplished. Also, the truth is that if you close the AT to that Park, that park will barely be visited ever again. You're telling me that the hype around Baxter isn't around Khatadin and it being the Northern Terminus? C'mon with the jokes.

To put this into context, there is no "record". There is no official recognition of the feat by BSP, the ATC, or anyone outside of some of the enthusiasts of ultra running and hikers who follow this kind of thing. The issue of Jurek photos at the summit are unfortunate, as it does tend to provide a "poster boy" image of poor behavior the Park has long seated issues with. The photo represents all the stuff BSP deals with, which is an unfortunate connection.

The truth really is, the Park will do just fine without the AT terminus, which is the point. The park is routinely full from the road accesses during the summer months, termination of the AT at the Park boundary would actually relieve the park of a lot of nonsense they have to deal with and lessen the impact of the wilderness they try very hard to protect. To say the park will "barely be visited again" is one made by people who do not have a full understanding of the Park.

[imscotty]

Also, the truth is that if you close the AT to that Park, that park will barely be visited ever again.

Tear Drop,

I believe this is absolutely untrue, I would say just the opposite. Remove the AT form BSP, and I am sure it will still be running at capacity during the busy season. BSP does not need us. We need to be polite and respectful guests.

[CalebJ]

On the surface, these are legitimate complaints. I do have some questions about each, however.
1) The alcohol. Is it possible that this was a misunderstanding? Not having been up there, I really don't know. Is it clearly posted that alcohol is prohibited up there?
2) The media permits. To my knowlege, the only 'media' was from other parties, e.g. Runners World, etc. Scott had his own pacer there with him (Luis Escobar) who does take a lot of photographs. It sounds like BSP gave the citation to Scott Jurek when they really needed to be dealing with other groups.

No idea on the littering. All I can say to that is related to my two experiences with seeing him come through this area. In both cases, they were fastidious about LNT. If any trash hit the ground, it would have been picked up. Sorry to hear that something went differently at the end.

[Malto]

On the surface, these are legitimate complaints. I do have some questions about each, however.
1) The alcohol. Is it possible that this was a misunderstanding? Not having been up there, I really don't know. Is it clearly posted that alcohol is prohibited up there?
2) The media permits. To my knowlege, the only 'media' was from other parties, e.g. Runners World, etc. Scott had his own pacer there with him (Luis Escobar) who does take a lot of photographs. It sounds like BSP gave the citation to Scott Jurek when they really needed to be dealing with other groups.

No idea on the littering. All I can say to that is related to my two experiences with seeing him come through this area. In both cases, they were fastidious about LNT. If any trash hit the ground, it would have been picked up. Sorry to hear that something went differently at the end.

The media citations went to the groups, not Scott. I fully support FKT attempts but I have to say that I cringed when I saw the celebration at the summit including the alcohol. While I'm sure there are multitude of similiar celebrations by thru hikers and others, this story and the photos have gone worldwide setting a very bad example. I'm sure this was the last thing on Scott's mind at the time but his crew should have scoped this out a bit better. Overall, not a major travesty of justice but it was unfortunate.

[Sarcasm the elf]

The media citations went to the groups, not Scott. I fully support FKT attempts but I have to say that I cringed when I saw the celebration at the summit including the alcohol. While I'm sure there are multitude of similiar celebrations by thru hikers and others, this story and the photos have gone worldwide setting a very bad example. I'm sure this was the last thing on Scott's mind at the time but his crew should have scoped this out a bit better. Overall, not a major travesty of justice but it was unfortunate.

I agree 100% with Malto. I'm a fan of Jurek's, but it's beyond me how he and his support team had failed to properly research and prepare for hiking and filming in Baxter SP. Honestly I had assumed that they had worked it out with the park officials ahead of time and it wasn't until I saw the champagne photo it dawned on me that they didn't know or care to follow the regulations. It really is sad that this oversight is clouding his otherwise awesome achievement.

[Another Kevin]

On the surface, these are legitimate complaints. I do have some questions about each, however.
1) The alcohol. Is it possible that this was a misunderstanding? Not having been up there, I really don't know. Is it clearly posted that alcohol is prohibited up there?

It is not. Because drinking in public is forbidden in the entire state of Maine. The park is not an exception.

2) The media permits. To my knowlege, the only 'media' was from other parties, e.g. Runners World, etc. Scott had his own pacer there with him (Luis Escobar) who does take a lot of photographs. It sounds like BSP gave the citation to Scott Jurek when they really needed to be dealing with other groups.

Most other sports hold the competitors responsible for the behaviour of their fans, presuming that fans will do a better job of policing themselves if they know that their misbehaviour can make their team lose. (There have been rumours of 'false flag' operations being mounted by fans in certain sports to make their disfavoured teams lose, so this approach is also a double-edged sword.)

No idea on the littering. All I can say to that is related to my two experiences with seeing him come through this area. In both cases, they were fastidious about LNT. If any trash hit the ground, it would have been picked up. Sorry to hear that something went differently at the end.

Even the champagne sprayed about is improper disposal of food waste and greywater.

[Slo-go'en]

Worse are all the disrespectful comments on the FB page dissing the parks rules. Yes, Scott was responsible for all the violations. It doesn't matter if it was direct or indirect. His presence there was the cause.

Then you have thru-hikers posting summit pictures with their dog. I'm sure the park would be thrilled to see that too. If this behavior continues, you can bet the park will be closed to thru hikers before very long.

[LoneStranger]

If you read closely it seems that the commercial aspect seems to offend them just as much as disrespect for the other rules. With the meeting coming up soon this will definitely have a bearing on the outcome. If you read the comments on FB and those that will surely follow here you see a lot of resentment at BSP for having rules and expecting people to follow them. Ignorance might be an excuse for a day hiker, but anyone attempting a thru, let alone a record setting attempt, should be aware of the rules they will be subject to along the way. Love him or hate him, Scott's legacy may well be that he was the straw that broke the camel's back.

People seem to have a hard time understanding that BSP puts the wilderness ahead of people. The need some folks have to feel special by breaking the rules is the problem. A hundred people a day could summit respectfully, but a handful of idiots are enough to get the whole thing shut down.

[kf1wv]

Thank you, TJ, Slo-go-en, and LoneStranger. Well put.